My new "Blue" ESR tester

[Bob Parker]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

Looking at the EXIF info on the Panasonic DMC-FZ7 camera, it was operating at ISO 400 in the picture I randomly looked at closely. It went to that setting because there wasn't a lot of light. That causes noise in the image which is more noticeable when it's such a high resolution picture. Have you tried the free Faststone image editor viewer program? It's very good for reducing the size of very big images like that (and looking at the EXIF info in the picture files).

Oh, and thanks for buying one of the Blue ESR meters.

[Bob Parker]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

This meter can do .xx Ohm (two decimal points) resolution?

Yes.

[Bob Parker]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

Feedback on the camera... Panasonic DMC-F27.... see a review here if you want to know the (more or less) expert's oppinion : http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz7

Yeah, a bit too grainy. Might be because you didn't use the macro mode (if it has any)

In regard to blue esr... it's a good meter but I sort of dislike that they still rely on old zilog microcontrollers and architecture as a simple reverse engineering block.

Also, for a commercial product the pcb is sort of... meh. Looks like a FR2, the resistors and other parts are not aligned properly on the pcb, sort of sends me the "lack of attention" or carelessness feeling. Considering it's also targeted to do it yourself, they also could have done the pads a tad larger, there's plenty of room.

On the other hand, I saw the documentation and I remember it was very nice, with plenty of detail.

Gee, sorry the layout isn't artistic enough.

[Bob Parker]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

Ok ,you spent 88$ at anatekcorp for it, for 99$ looks to come assembled.

Either way as the others commented all ready, it is very basic design with poor resolution.
You should do a better research prion getting it.
Do not get me wrong, but this looks as waste of cash to me.


Edit: My vote on cameras goes to Olympus.

Yep, a very crude design with hopeless resolution. You got it 100% correct. DO NOT touch the Blue ESR meters.

[Bob Parker]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

Tom, I talked the RusMike here on the forum and got his ESRMicro 4.0 for a very good price.
It was 50 (dollars or euro, I don't remember now) without the case, but with a baggie full of spare parts.

The Blue ESR banks on Bob Parker's reputation to sell - the most expensive stuff on that meter is probably 3-5$ for the case, overall all the parts aren't more than 10$.

To sell it for 88$ in kit form is just... I mean they probably just bought everything in volume to get low prices, otherwise I can't explain why they'd still use such old mcu.

Why use a 1$ Z8 18 pin mcu when they could just as well used a 1.5$ 28 pin PIC or AVR and drive the display straight from the mcu (saving on an ic and socket and a few transistors) and make the design simpler, possibly by using 2-3AA batteries with a regulator down to 1.8-3.3v for the mcu, instead of 9v dropped to 5v.

It's old and complex for today's standards and too expensive for what it brings.

Thank you for all your most useful comments. They are greatly appreciated. My block list now contains an extra two entries.

[mariushm]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

Well, it just goes to show your character, you're not hurting me in any way by blocking me.

It's a free forum, I'm just as free to express my opinions as you are to reply to my comments and contradict (or correct) me.

If you browse again through what I said, you will probably see I never said it's a bad meter, just that it does what it's designed to do with minimal production costs and that for the value, certain improvements could be made.

If you can't stomach that, too bad.

[twbranch]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

I bought the blue ESR meter and is well worth price and the experience to build it. In my opinion the ESRMicro looks like a toy. With that said I do not dispute its ability to work. But in my business when customers come in and see a toy on the bench they think i am a kid just playing with circuits.

[mariushm]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

If the only tool on your desk is an esr meter, then they're entitled to think you're just a kid playing with circuits.

Anyway, your customers shouldn't even be allowed to access the area you work in, why risk them touching something that's live and have problems?

The Blue ESR is actually more of a toy compared to ESRmicro, less input protection, less features, stock Hammond case, 80's tech etc ...

[tom66]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

Mariushm's comments are valid. Feel free to block me - but he has a point (or several.)

I have designed an ESR meter in my spare time as an even cheaper alternative: just drive a meter directly on the millivolt scale. I have no plans to produce it though, as it would take too much time/effort when you can now pick one up on eBay (with integrated LCD) for about $40 from China - or from Rusmike at $50 - both are very good meters from reading on here. Plus I've got a Peak ESR60. I had to go for a 5V design, but only because the rms converter IC required it (try buying one that works at 3.3V, I dare you.)

[twbranch]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

My customers are the people that make me money. If they want to audit my work area that is ok by me. Besides I work on avionics which means my customers have to audit me. but i am sure someone of your stature wouldn't know anything about real electronic benches which include scopes, synthesizers, 480V p/s, 28V p/s, RF generators, curve tracers, temperature calibrators, precision DMM calibrators, etc. Oh, and some of that was built before the 80s and still works fine. I am guessing you tried to build your own ESR and failed.

Instead of insulting others projects and pissing on others accomplishments how about giving the man props for making something that everyone likes-even if you don't! it sucks when people talk crap about you! (read above)

I am sure you are a nice guy and we probably would get along in person but I don't know because you just keep on and on about an opinion that is just that an opinion.

In fact I have used the Micro before and it works just as good. just trying to make a point.

[twbranch]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

I am with you tom. I have built my own on a breadboard in the past but I have to have traceability (<spelling?) and calibration. They are cheap but I had an HP I believe that cost more to repair than these two ESRs. That is why I bought Bobs. Cheap to repair if it ever needs it. Just my two cents.

[Bob Parker]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

My customers are the people that make me money. If they want to audit my work area that is ok by me. Besides I work on avionics which means my customers have to audit me. but i am sure someone of your stature wouldn't know anything about real electronic benches which include scopes, synthesizers, 480V p/s, 28V p/s, RF generators, curve tracers, temperature calibrators, precision DMM calibrators, etc. Oh, and some of that was built before the 80s and still works fine. I am guessing you tried to build your own ESR and failed.

Instead of insulting others projects and pissing on others accomplishments how about giving the man props for making something that everyone likes-even if you don't! it sucks when people talk crap about you! (read above)

I am sure you are a nice guy and we probably would get along in person but I don't know because you just keep on and on about an opinion that is just that an opinion.

In fact I have used the Micro before and it works just as good. just trying to make a point.

Thanks for understanding the reason for me getting annoyed and blocking two more of the users here.

Like you, my background is professional electronics. I originally designed that ESR meter only for my own use, back in the mid 1990s. It's because it's a very old design that it uses a very old microcontroller IC. But that concept is too complicated for some people to understand. I intentionally made it very simple to use in real-life repair situations, so the armchair critics call it "crude".

Because ESR measurement doesn't need to be precise, I only gave it two displays with auto-ranging to let it measure down to 10 milliohms. So the 'experts' here consider that to be "crude" too with "poor resolution". That really demonstrates that 'expert's" level of technical knowledge. They criticise the PCB layout but I wonder how many PCBs they've designed.

The original ESR meter design only became publicly known when we discovered how useful it is, and I submitted it to the local electronics magazine as a construction project. A few companies started making kits for it, and it just took off. Nothing to do with me being some kind of businessman - I'm just a technician who was very surprised at the meter's popularity for such a long time.

The fact is that since 1996 when that design went public, I have answered literally thousands of e-mails from hobbyists whose own mistakes caused their ESR meter kits not to work, and done my best to help them out. This has literally wasted a few years of my life. Then more of those kind of people get on here and start finding what they think are faults with the design, as though they could do a lot better. I think I'm justified in getting annoyed.

Anyway I'll never see whatever it is that they've written in response to my earlier comments because they're in my block list. If it was possible for me to close my Badcaps account, that's exactly what I'd do. I'm not even sure why I look at this site.

Have a nice day, "experts".

[tom66]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

I think you're being a little harsh.
No design is perfect, every design has limitations.
Your meter measures ESR. Fine. It does the job.
But some people don't like it. They will criticise you.
Innovation is the way forward. People improve on the design and ideas.
That is life! Sorry if it hurts.

[twbranch]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

My problem tom66 is that the guy keeps criticising the man even though mariushm hasn't built one better. I always say if you don't like the product make it better. Don't criticize someone for making something when you haven't attempted to build it yourself.

mariushm, design and build one better!

[tom66]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

I haven't tried to build one myself but I have designed one and simulated it in LTspice. But the real world is the only true test. There are obviously lots of differences when it comes to making something in LTspice actually work - as I have learned myself.

There are millivolt potentials which are very sensitive to things like mains hum and offset errors of op-amps so it's pretty precise work.

I think Bob's meter uses a completely different design, though I don't understand it myself. The one I have designed uses a true 100kHz (well, 96kHz) sine wave, at +/-100mA (about 71mArms.) The penalty you pay though is the battery consumption is about 90mA, so the meter should use AA's for long life. But if you need 5V, that means you need at least 4xAA (6.4V max), but then you only get down to 1.3V/cell (assuming a 5.2V cut out) so most of the energy in the cells is wasted. More cells, lower cut out per cell, but 6xAA takes up a lot of space.

The idea of this design was to measure as low as 1mOhm with 0.1mOhm resolution, with a good meter (not a crappy DT830B, but any meter with a 40mV DC scale or >=10,000 counts on DC mV) it should be possible.

Also it's AC coupled, so you can touch a charged cap across the terminals (up to 800V) without fear of blowing up the meter.

[twbranch]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

That is cool. Why don't you market it? We can never have enough test equipment.

[mariushm]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

My problem tom66 is that the guy keeps criticising the man even though mariushm hasn't built one better. I always say if you don't like the product make it better. Don't criticize someone for making something when you haven't attempted to build it yourself.

mariushm, design and build one better!

Now that's just stupid.

That would mean every person reviewing or criticizing a product should be required to build something better.

Like... someone watches a presentation of a car on tv and notices something about it he/she doesn't like just by looking at it, in your mind he shouldn't dare to discuss it before he actually builds a better car.

Or someone reviewing motherboards, processors, benchmarking video cards, mobile phones, they should all shut up unless they actually build a better product before posting something.

That's just not how it works.

I can understand him being offended for having his work criticized but it seems what I'm trying to say just doesn't get through. I never said it's a BAD product, just that it's no longer value for money, and that the company/person making it doesn't seem to have any interest in improving or updating it to fit the modern times. It's just milking the market, keeping the price high banking on Parker's reputation and the limited alternatives.

I'm not an electronics expert, but I did research on the subject, I read application notes, I read patents about measuring ESR and measuring and discharging capacitors , I know the principles about how these "esr meters" work. I'm putting it between " " because neither this, or other meters, actually determine the true ESR value of capacitors, they're just toys approximating that value.

I would be capable of making one because I did various projects with micro controllers and I will probably make an esr meter simply because I'm tired of seeing meters sold for 100$ when they cost 10$ to make and the source code for them is not available most of the time, but I just don't have the time and motivation to focus on such a project right now.

[tom66]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

That is cool. Why don't you market it? We can never have enough test equipment.

Not enough time, money, motivation. Pick any two.

I may do it as a project at a local Hackspace if I get some time. I can build it on a PCB.

[budm]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

As far as I am concerned, the blue ESR is good enough for DIY and repair shop just to verify if the cap in question is bad due to high ESR, hte key word is verification of the bad component, if you put in the new cap and it fixed the problem and you want to know why, then using this ESR will tell you. Some people may want to stock up on cap instead of buying meter if putting in 25 cent cap fixes the problem, the tool is for verification, when you fix lots of stuff, replacing a set of caps is a good thing to do any way, and when you have time, then you can sit down and verify to see if those caps are bad due to ESR or bad cap value, or bad leakage. I myself use SENCORE LC75 to check the value, ESR, LEAKAGE with proper rated voltage for the cap under test, I do it when I first build prototype products so I do not waste my time trying to find out if the design is bad or if it is due to bad component.
When you see the same brand of bad caps being used, how many people here actually do any more ESR testing on them when you know that they are bad brand of caps to begin with.

[twbranch]

Re: My new "Blue" ESR tester

budm, I agree. The only people who need the high dollar ESRs are those making the caps. I have been using my own breadboard ESR for years until i bought the blue ESR. It never failed me. I only bought one because the FAA required that it be calibrated and I have no approved calibration procedure for my homebrew.