Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

[Wizard]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Here's this PSU potientially going to use and do recap job but first wanted your thoughts like rebuild it or dump it. It came from low-end P4 celeron D 320 with VIA chipset board. Board is dumped out as it's sucky reason I picked up this machine was to get XP home COA sticker and cost was right; under 150 and I get a case, CPU to reuse or sell.







Cheers, Wizard

[UraBahn]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

To me that PSU looks like a keeper. (As to whether or not it'll actually do 500W is another question altogether.) At least there's generous heatsinking, and it looks like it has an input filter (which already puts it miles above any brand-X supply).

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Dynex is Best Buy's "House Brand".
They sell on eBay pretty cheap.

Made by SHENZHEN CHI YUAN INDUSTRIAL CO LTD (in China)
a.k.a Huntkey

Hardware Secrets did reviews on the 400 and 450 watt versions.
He gave a bad review on one and an okay on the other.
I didn't like that when he called the one bad as bad he was over the amps ratings given on the label for more than one rail. [I told him so too.]

Based on those reviews that 500w is a semi-gutless wonder (as opposed to a fully gutless wonder) that might be good for 350-400 watts.

[Wizard]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Thanks, that all I need, and knowing not have stuff to stress it out over 400W. I have majority of quality 380W or under PSUs in all my machines.

Some of my PSU is modified like removing voltage selector and put shorter jumper and improve the air flow.



Cheers, Wizard

[minitt]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Hi, every1...

Other than some soldering skill and som knwldg bout capacitor i dun knw anythin else about PSU..

see the the attached picture and help me with ur suggestions

Tell me how good/bad the components are.

The PSU is connected after a UPS with integrated AVR

Its a 400WATT ATX 2.0 (24pin) PSU 12v1 =15A ,12v2= 16A

but all yellow cable are soldered together.??!!!

Im planning to use this unit for following components.

p4 3.6ghz (oced) 102 TDP= 8.4amp

HD 4850 110 TDP= 9 amp

HDD+DVD+DDR+mobo = 4 amp


So should i recap the PSU ?

like change some caps to higher voltage caps?



(buying a new PSU is not an option 4 me)

sori 4 my poor english since its not my native. thnx

[Scenic]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

a typical gutless wonder..
well.. at least it has some sort of ghetto input filtering

i've seen similar ones rated anywhere from 300 to 600W lol
they are *maybe* 250 to 300W...

just toss it and get a good one (like a Corsair VX450 (made by Seasonic with good caps))

just as an example...
noname PSU rated for "520" watt (partly disassembled, but anyways...)

http://bambooz.pytalhost.net/WHF/Bil.../520Watt_1.jpg
http://bambooz.pytalhost.net/WHF/Bil...520Watt__2.jpg

350ATX ...?! smells *really* fishy.. and thats probably the peak wattage this POS can do..
http://bambooz.pytalhost.net/WHF/Bil...520Watt__3.jpg

Zhifa? Zhila? Zhi.... whatever..
http://bambooz.pytalhost.net/WHF/Bil...520Watt__4.jpg

this thing already went into the trashcan..
i wouldn't even use this thing any of my old Pentium 3 PCs.. lol


for the records: that UL number on the label leads to L & C Power according to jonnygurus database..

L & C TECHNOLOGY INC
E164554
L&C, Apex/Allied, Austin, Deer. NOT to be confused with "LC-Power"

see here:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...ory&ndar_id=24

UL Number: E164554

oh and BTW: it *was* actually still working, allthough there were some partly burnt resistors..
came out of a cheapo 20€ ATX case...

was running with a P4 2,4GHz Northwood, 1HDD, DVD Drive + CDRW and a GeForce 4 Ti 4200.. and even *that* sys was too much for it (got really hot in there..)

[minitt]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

@Scenic

r u referring to my post????

CPU 103 watt = 12V 8.6 A

HD 4850 100 watt = 12V 8.3 A
---------------------------------------total 12v draw is 17A
DVD 17 watt = 5V 3.4 A 5V

Sata 25 watt = 5V 5.0 A 5V

4 Stick 25 watt = 3.3V 7.6 A
DDR

USB 2watt = 12V 0.2A
1 device

3.3V+5V= 130 W max (on PSU label)

so im guessing 20-22amp on the 12V.

So can i get away with this PSU???

i am guessing the mosfets are pretty strong (both on primary and secondary side)..or am i wrong????

[KeriJane]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Hi Minitt

That looks like a decently made but old and dirty PSU to me. Not much like a gutless wonder at all. To support this assertion:

It has an input filter.
It has a bridge rectifier instead of the "gutless" 4-diode treatment.
None of the caps appear to be bloated or leaking.

You've done an incredible job of documenting that picture also.

Why not just replace it with something newer and better?

If you can't or don't want to, here's my suggestions for what they're worth:

1-Clean it up.
2-Replace the fan(s)
3-Find out what brand name and series capacitors are in there, look up the specs for ESR and Ripple current and find suitable replacements of the same voltage and capacitance if possible.

The very large Primary caps are probably OK. Unless you think that the buzzing ceramic cap indicates otherwise.
If anything, you would normally want to replace the lower voltage Secondary caps.

It should not be necessary to use higher-voltage caps or ones of higher capacitance. Good Low ESR / High Ripple Current caps that are suitable for PSU use should be used.

Nichicon PW,
Panasonic FC ,
United Chemi-Con KY,
and Rubycon ZL
are generally considered to be good for PSU duty.

Have Fun!
Keri

[minitt]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

thnx @KeriJane

i have been looking for specific suggestion like u stated.

The old ceramic capacitor was high voltage 472 1KV (made loud buzzing noise)

which is replaced by the blue ceramic capacitor with same 472 1KV

but still the new cap makes very low noise yet not annoying at all.

Does it indicate that the new Blue ceramic is under stress due to BIG primary

capacitor which mi8 be wearing out????????

*** I used to think that its completely or even better to replace a capacitor

with higher voltage while keeping the "uf" value same as the original

capacitor. am i wrong??????????

[Wizard]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Buzzing blue caps means u have bad primary capacitors, poor high frequency filtering in primary or POORLY designed PSU. And from what I see, this PSU was running dirty for awhile (cooked components) does serious number on the electrolytic capacitors small and large so you will realize need to replace all the capacitors because you cannot determine them without a ESR meter. That will make poor ecomonic sense where you can get retail seasonic PSU series if you can get help importing one from someone else.

I had many TV with switching PSU keep going with dead primary capacitor but made my isolation transformer to crackle and buzz.

Cheers, Wizard

[minitt]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

thnxxx wizard

ill change the pri caps today nd post results asap...

[KeriJane]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Hi Minitt

Can the blue cap noise be related to a failing Primary cap?

Possibly. You could probably say better than I could, as I can't trace out the circuit. Also, I'm a relative beginner.

My research indicates that the Primary caps have a low failure rate because they work at a much lower frequency than the secondary caps. Part of this is that they are larger and more robust in order to handle the higher voltages.


I do not feel that one should use a higher voltage cap than the original. While this should be safe, the capacitor might not work as intended.

As I understand it, the Voltage rating is determined by the strength and thickness of the insulator between the metal plates.

If you use too thick of an insulator, it might affect the operation of the capacitor at lower voltages. That is, the voltage might be too low to achieve any capacitive effect.
Putting a 450v capacitor in a 5v circuit PROBABLY
wouldn't work right.

On the other hand, if you use too thin of an insulator, the insulator will break down rapidly and short-circuit the capacitor. This is what happens if you were to use a 6.3v capacitor on a 50v circuit.

Here is what I've found in various PSUs

For the 3.3v circuits, a 6.3v or 10v capacitor is usually used.

For the 5v circuits, a 10v capacitor is usually used, though 6.3v should be OK.

For the 12v circuits, 16v capacitors are nearly always used.

For 24v circuits, (as is in LCD inverters or in a Mac) 35v capacitors are usually used, though sometimes a 25v might be.

For those big primary caps which I know little about but believe they might be running at 300-350v, they usually use a 450v capacitor.

It seems that the engineers don't like to use a rating much over double the circuit voltage. The exception is 10v caps on 3.3v circuits, which is triple.

As I understand it, PSU secondary capacitors need a "Low ESR" rating but especially a "High Ripple Current" rating in order to deal with the high amperages found in the PSU.


What brand and series are the capacitors in that PSU?

Have fun,
Keri

[minitt]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

i have changed 2 caps 1 week ago. 1 electrolytic and 1 ceramic

electrolytic cap has a logo like $ which is replaced by a same capacitance but with 16V rather than 10v.

all the brown color caps in the PSU has the same "$" mark on them

but theere r black colored caps as well.

c the attached pix.

[Wizard]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

PCBONEZ,

I have sometimes had bad big cap (primary) that made similar issues. That why need to replace that just in case.

Cheers, Wizard

[KeriJane]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Hi Minitt

That is a "CS" brand capacitor made by 12KUANG JIN ENTERPRISE CO. LTD.

This is not generally considered to be a good brand.

http://www.12kj.com/doce/products.htm

The series is WE, and is listed as a "LOW Impedance" cap.

Here's the spec chart as a .jpeg

The 1000uf 10v WE series in a 10x20mm can is rated at .080Ω impedance and 620ma ripple.

This is not especially good compared to a Nichicon PW series 1000uf 10v in a 10x16mm can rated at .068Ω impedance and 1050ma ripple.

By using a higher quality capacitor of the exact same capacitance and voltage ratings and a similar "LOW ESR" rating, you should be able obtain better results without changing the voltage or capacitance values.

Have Fun!
Keri

[370forlife]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

That looks like a rosewill. One of his primaries is a Y.C (crap,) and the other is a S.C. (crap,)

But...never the less, my rosewill was running for about a year with the machine in my signature.

[minitt]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

looks like my primary (Big ones) caps are 4m CS as welll.

SO ill recap my secodary caps as follows:

The 1000uf 10v WE series in a 10x20mm rated at .080Ω impedance and 620ma ripple

will be replced with Nichicon PW series 1000uf 10v in a 10x16mm can rated at .068Ω

impedance and 1050ma ripple.

And the primary (680uf 200V) should be replaced with..??????? c da pix.


Btw can ne1 Spot which capacitors are respnsible for 12 V filtering....

1000uf/2200uf/470uf......??????? better if u can spot them from the picture uploaded above. thnx

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

Primaries are GP (General Purpose) caps.
Shouldn't worry about those much.
They don't work that hard and hardly ever fail unless there's a big power surge in the AC wiring.

.

[KeriJane]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

looks like my primary (Big ones) caps are 4m CS as welll.


And the primary (680uf 200V) should be replaced with..??????? c da pix.


Btw can ne1 Spot which capacitors are respnsible for 12 V filtering....

1000uf/2200uf/470uf......??????? better if u can spot them from the picture uploaded above. thnx

Well, from what I've been able to figure out, the Primary caps are often a large General Purpose cap. I've got Hitachi HP3 in one PSU, some Su'scon SL in another and some UCC KMD in another.

Nichicon LS (85˚ C) or GU series (105˚ C) seem appropriate.

the 12v filtering?
Maybe the largest 16v caps?

You can often follow the circuit traces. Start at the yellow 12v wires and work your way back towards the switching transistor. There will be a cap on the trace containing the wires. That trace will go to an Inductor, which will bridge to another trace going to the transistor. There will likely be a cap on that trace also.
Look! I made a drawing to illustrate.

Have Fun!
Keri

[minitt]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION

ok i have bought these caps today nd im bout to solder these as soon as i

get ur feedback. Btw bought a digital multimeter as well.

c da attached pix