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First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

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    #21
    Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

    The brands shown are all:
    Rubycon, Nichicon, Chemicon, Sanyo/Suncon, NIC Components, or Panasonic.
    [The common Japanese brands.]
    -
    Most people learn who makes what pretty quick.
    If you are unsure of which mfr makes one of those series a forum search will clear that up.
    .
    Mann-Made Global Warming.
    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
    -
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
    - Dr Seuss
    -
    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
    -

    Comment

      #22
      Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

      Well, the only 820uf 6.3v caps I could find here were Samxon, but they are GD series and not the best match for Nichicon HN.

      So, I end up at DK. I love their website (filters and all) but their Nichicon stock didn't seem to be as good as I remembered. I don't need 600 caps :-) It's probably because I'm shopping for higher-end HZ, HN, HM and not HE like usual ... but still. I mean, if you can't get them here or at DK ... then where? If you are going to take the time to do this, you might as well use the right parts.

      Comment

        #23
        Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

        Those are probably Vcore caps.
        In Vcore lowering ESR isn't an issue as long as you keep total uF up over about 5000uF [more is better] and thus you can use solid polymer caps.
        [EDIT] If you replace 820uF ltyic with 820uF Poly you don't need to worry about lowering total uF, you'll still be in range for that board.
        -
        P4 Vcore voltage is under 2.0v so you can use 2.5v or 4v caps.
        - Just make sure they ARE Vcore caps because if not the voltage might be too high for those polys.
        ...
        Do resistance checks to make sure all the 820uF are in parallel and on Vcore.
        If they are you are good to go for an upgrade to poly.

        820uF [and some other sizes] got REAL common over the last couple years and that brought the prices down.
        They are probably cheaper than HN would be.
        .
        .
        Those Fujitsu FPCAPs [Black/Yellow 'Bumble Bees'] are probably also in Vcore and their uF counts for the total.
        .
        Last edited by PCBONEZ; 07-06-2011, 10:44 PM.
        Mann-Made Global Warming.
        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
        -
        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
        - Dr Seuss
        -
        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
        -

        Comment

          #24
          Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

          how do you know is too high for polys? I accidently put a bunch of polys in backwards, and got them waay under volts, didn't do squat

          a lytic would of caught fire :P
          Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
          ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

          Comment

            #25
            Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

            Originally posted by Uranium-235 View Post
            how do you know is too high for polys? I accidently put a bunch of polys in backwards, and got them waay under volts, didn't do squat

            a lytic would of caught fire :P
            I've seen polys explode with enough smoke to empty the whole house for the stench.
            ... And it wasn't in backwards. - Posted it in here somewhere.

            What too high?
            .
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

            Comment

              #26
              Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

              Those HN are either a custom or discontinued size. They are taller than standard 6.3V 820uF HN, and thus lower ESR.

              When I run into them in VRM, I usually replace them with a 1500uF or 1800uF capacitor to keep the ESR the same. Capacitance is less critical in this particular location.

              Another option would be to replace them with 680 or 820uF poly, as PCBONEZ mentioned.

              Comment

                #27
                Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                That makes sense too. I forgot they were extra long.

                I would stay with 820uF for the poly though.
                The others are already only 560uF.
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment

                  #28
                  Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                  I'm talking about voltage when I say 'too high', but you might also reference this for my state of mind too j/k

                  I was really pushing it, like 2.5v on a 10v replacement
                  Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
                  ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

                  Comment

                    #29
                    Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                    The parts came in, so I replaced the following bloated/ leaking caps.:

                    (5) Nichicon (Black/Gold) 820uf-6.3v HN(M) series
                    - Right next to CPU

                    (1) Nichicon (Black/Gold) 820uf-6.3v HN(M) series
                    - Right next to CPU Fan connector

                    Even though these were EXACT replacements, the first thing I noticed was that the new caps are only half as tall as the originals ... I guess their manufacturing process has improved in the last 6 years?

                    I heated up the de-soldering gun attachment to about 380c. The one by the fan practically fell out of the board after de-soldering. Later, soldering in the replacement was equally easy like normal.

                    The 5 by the processor were a different story. They were very difficult to remove (of course, without damaging the PCB). I had to run the de-soldering tool at 400c-410c. I think the reasons are:
                    1. It seems that these 5 (and another 5 caps.) are all in parallel. Not only are the ground plane traces thick and covering large sections, but so was the positive side. It was like fighting against a heatsink at every turn.
                    2. The hole-thru holes are very small diameter. Hard to get good suction thru to clean the other side.
                    3. Maybe this was lead-free solder? It WAS shiney like normal solder, but this might help to explain the heat needed.

                    So, I got them out without damaging any holes/traces, but it certainly wasn't easy. Even after sucking out the solder the best I could, I still had to wiggle them out, and clean the holes some more. On a few, I had to resort to the dental pick trick (which I have never used before ... ever).

                    To get a good, fast, flowing solder connection ... again, I had to run the soldering iron hotter than normal. 400c seems to work pretty good. This is with normal solder.

                    I recommend removing them all first, to prevent excessive heat on brand new caps, and to have less components attached to the circuit during the de-soldering phase.

                    I re-installed cpu, hs, ram ... and rebuilt the machine. It seems to be working good so far, but since the original problem was intermittent, (about 1 in 5 boots, it locks up hard and freezes while booting Windows XP ... especially while cold) I still need to do more testing before I declare the repair a success.

                    Thanks again everyone. Looks like yet another machine has been spared the landfill.

                    Comment

                      #30
                      Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                      Larger caps have lower ESR. Those original caps might have been a custom part. The HZs might have been a better replacement.

                      Comment

                        #31
                        Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                        Repair worked great.

                        The machine was re-installed and has been under heavy use for a couple of weeks now ... no problems what-so-ever.

                        Comment

                          #32
                          Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                          Congrats!
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment

                            #33
                            Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                            The HNs come in two versions. The taller part has better ripple suppression, and all of Mousers stock is probably sitting in PCBONEZ' basement.
                            "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                            -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                            Comment

                              #34
                              Re: First Recap - Intel OEM MB from Gateway P4

                              They don't build basements around here.
                              Frost line is like 6 inches or something.
                              .
                              Mann-Made Global Warming.
                              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                              -
                              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                              - Dr Seuss
                              -
                              You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                              -

                              Comment

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