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Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

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    Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

    Hi all...
    After attempting (with no success) to repair a Maximus IV Extreme, I am now trying to fix an apparently broken Asrock z77 Extreme4.
    The board seems really perfect, nothing to report.
    Except that it is dead.
    No beeps, no lights, no fan. Only thing it's on is the led on keyboard.

    After a full inspection I found that a gold cap near the internal power button gets extremely hot when I power on the PSU.

    Maybe the problem is the cap? Se the attachment.

    It says "LF 560 j 25C" on it.

    I don't see damages on it. It only gets hot (it hurts to touch in few seconds).
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Uazzamerican; 01-25-2017, 09:05 AM.

    #2
    Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

    could be. when polymer caps fail, their leakage current increases until they become like a resistor instead of a capacitor. try replacing it. tho poly caps dont fail without a good reason. most likely a junk psu with too high voltage spikes on the 5vsb is the culprit.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

      Originally posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
      could be. when polymer caps fail, their leakage current increases until they become like a resistor instead of a capacitor. try replacing it. tho poly caps dont fail without a good reason. most likely a junk psu with too high voltage spikes on the 5vsb is the culprit.
      Well I am no technician, but it is something encouraging.
      I cannot find anything wrong in the motherboard (and I was able to spot a fried diode on the Maximus), but I must say also that the CAP seems to be perfect, except for the crazy temperature it reaches just plugging the cord.

      I will try to replace it, maybe both just to be sure.

      What type of caps should I search for? I would like to use the same type for both.


      Thank you for your help.

      Any other will be welcome.
      Last edited by Uazzamerican; 01-25-2017, 12:23 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

        sure the 1117 reg isnt the heat producer?

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

          Originally posted by kc8adu View Post
          sure the 1117 reg isnt the heat producer?
          The only thing I know is that the bigger gold cap is hot as hell, just plugging the power cord (the system won' t turn on anyway, no fan, no beeps, nothing).
          It is possible that the 1117 thing is also hot, I should verify, but I cannot see damages on it.

          But what does that means? What should I change?
          Last edited by Uazzamerican; 01-26-2017, 01:18 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

            Ok

            I verified the 1117 and it is hot indeed.
            I cannot tell if the heat it produces spreads to the caps OR they spread heat as well themselves.

            Anyway, should I change the 1117 as well?

            As far as I can tell, it is an adjustable regulator because I don't see any suffix after the number 1117. Am I right?

            Should I change (or look for)anything else?

            I need the more info I can get before I go to the technician (he doesn't care...).


            Thank you !!

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

              The 1117 is a linear regulator, and it's most likely adjustable as you can see the resistors required to set the output voltage below the chip.
              As for being hot ... it could be hot for several reasons.. it could be faulty, or something could pull so much current that the regulator is in short circuit protection or over temperature protection all the time.
              Check the input and output voltage of the 1117 regulator with a multimeter and see what's going on there.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                Hi!
                I just tested (I think...) the voltage regulator, following the guide on this forum.

                I used as ground, a space for motherboard screw (plated).

                Here the data:

                First line: 1117
                Second: 21601k
                1) 1,42
                2) 2,23
                3) 4,88

                Now, from the guide the second reading value should be the first plus 1.25v
                It is not, so the regulator is bad and should be changed. Right?

                What you suggest me to test?
                Last edited by Uazzamerican; 01-29-2017, 08:33 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                  Originally posted by Uazzamerican View Post
                  Here the data:

                  First line: 1117
                  Second: 21601k
                  1) 1,42
                  2) 2,23
                  3) 4,88

                  Now, from the guide the second reading value should be the first plus 1.25v
                  It is not, so the regulator is bad and should be changed. Right?

                  What you suggest me to test?
                  I'm guessing that items 1) 2) and 3) above are the voltages at pins 1, 2 (or tab), and 3 of the 1117 IC. If that is the case, then you need to look only at the voltage on pin 2 (or the metal tab), which is the output, and pin 3, which is the input.

                  So with the above voltages, looks like the regulator is taking in about 4.88 Volts (roughly 5V, that is), and outputting 2.23 Volts (probably should be close to 2.5 Volts).

                  To get a bit more information, next you should try measuring the resistance between ground and the output (tab) of that 1117 regulator. You do this with the motherboard powered OFF and disconnected from the power supply. Basically, set your multimeter to the lowest resistance scale (if it's a manual multimeter) and put the black probe on a ground. Then put the red probe on the output of the regulator (the tab). See what resistance you get and post it here. This might give us a bit more insight if something is shorted or partially shorted.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                    1) 2) and 3) are the little pin on the 1117, from left to right.
                    I followed entirely the guide on this forum on measuring voltages on 1117.

                    I have a cheap digital multimeter, I hope it will be enough.

                    Putting the black probe on a ground washer space (or on the I/O connection metal case) and the red probe on pin 2 or the fat tab, I obtain nothing but "1".
                    The same for another 1117 on the motherboard.
                    Maybe I am not using a proper "ground" point??

                    If I put the black probe on pin 1 and the red on pin 2 I obtain a stable value of 178 ohm.
                    Don't know what it means...
                    Last edited by Uazzamerican; 01-31-2017, 02:13 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                      Second attempt:

                      I set the "2000" scale and now I get proper readings.

                      It says 474 ohm on the 1117 tab.

                      If measure the other 1117 (the one on the top left of the image) it says 498 ohm.

                      I wish I know what that means.
                      Last edited by Uazzamerican; 01-31-2017, 03:27 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                        The resistance test I made you do above basically is a simple to test to see if the output of the 1117 regulator is shorted to ground.

                        The next test would be to measure resistance between pins 2 and 3 of the 1117 regulator. Do it two ways: with the black probe on pin 2 and red probe on pin 3, then reverse the probes and see what you get. And post it here, of course.

                        I am starting to suspect the regulator is OK. But just in case, do the above test.

                        As for the resistance between pins 1 and 2... that would most likely be the resistance of the two resistors used for adjusting the voltage output. So probably OK too.

                        Originally posted by Uazzamerican View Post
                        Putting the black probe on a ground washer space (or on the I/O connection metal case) and the red probe on pin 2 or the fat tab, I obtain nothing but "1".
                        The same for another 1117 on the motherboard.
                        Maybe I am not using a proper "ground" point??
                        If that "1" is on the left side of your multimeter screen (which I am pretty sure it is), then this means the resistance you are trying to measure is higher than the scale you've selected.

                        This is how pretty much all manual-range multimeters work. The same will happen if you, for example, try to measure a power supply that outputs 25V and you have the multimeter set on the 20V scale - you will get a "1" on the left side of the screen.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                          Thank you Momaka for your support!

                          I have done the tests you suggest me, I tested both the 1117 regulators, to have a control.

                          On the (maybe) broken one I have no readings regardless of the scale I use on the multimeter:

                          2black>3red = "1" on the screen
                          3black>2red = "1" on the screen

                          On the functional one, with 2000 scale I have:

                          2black>3red = 1263ohm
                          3black>2red = 1247ohm

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                            That's really sneaky from Asrock to skip the ld1117 voltage's labels , probably to put some fake and cheap ones .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                              Originally posted by jiroy View Post
                              That's really sneaky from Asrock to skip the ld1117 voltage's labels , probably to put some fake and cheap ones .
                              Thanks, I think...
                              What is your opinion on the specific issue anyway?

                              I see that someone else has encountered the same issue:
                              https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53044

                              http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=117765 (This one said that removing the transistor near the 1117 made the heat go away...).
                              Last edited by Uazzamerican; 02-01-2017, 02:57 AM.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                                Originally posted by Uazzamerican View Post
                                Thanks, I think...
                                What is your opinion on the specific issue anyway?

                                I see that someone else has encountered the same issue:
                                https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53044

                                http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=117765 (This one said that removing the transistor near the 1117 made the heat go away...).
                                One good thing is , there are other same ld1117 onboard . You can take them as references to know what is their real output voltage , and then compare the results to find any abnormality .

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                                  Originally posted by Uazzamerican View Post
                                  I have done the tests you suggest me, I tested both the 1117 regulators, to have a control.

                                  On the (maybe) broken one I have no readings regardless of the scale I use on the multimeter:

                                  2black>3red = "1" on the screen
                                  3black>2red = "1" on the screen

                                  On the functional one, with 2000 scale I have:

                                  2black>3red = 1263ohm
                                  3black>2red = 1247ohm
                                  Well, the good news with that is that I see nothing wrong in those readings. The bad news is that we still have the problem unsolved. :\

                                  Originally posted by Uazzamerican View Post
                                  I see that someone else has encountered the same issue:
                                  https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53044

                                  http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=117765 (This one said that removing the transistor near the 1117 made the heat go away...).
                                  Interesting.
                                  I have completely forgotten about those threads.

                                  I don't know about removing the transistor near the 1117, but I see an SMD resistor with a "000" next to it. Does this "000" resistor connected to the tab of the 1117 regulator? (Check this with your multimeter by seeing if you get less than 2 Ohms resistance.) If YES, you can try removing that "000" resistor temporarily to see if the 1117 outputs a normal voltage and stops overheating. That way, we know if the cap and 1117 regulator are at least somewhat okay.

                                  Originally posted by jiroy View Post
                                  One good thing is , there are other same ld1117 onboard . You can take them as references to know what is their real output voltage , and then compare the results to find any abnormality .
                                  That's a good idea, but you have to make sure the 1117 regulators are not adjustable (and if they are, then make sure the adjust resistors on pin 1 of the faulty regulator matches that of another 1117 regulator). Otherwise, those 1117 regulators could be set to output different voltages.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                                    Originally posted by momaka View Post

                                    That's a good idea, but you have to make sure the 1117 regulators are not adjustable (and if they are, then make sure the adjust resistors on pin 1 of the faulty regulator matches that of another 1117 regulator). Otherwise, those 1117 regulators could be set to output different voltages.
                                    Yes . If Adjustable , the circuit will force himself factually , so then he will have to remove one leg's solder .. Frankly Momaka , i don't see the problem in capacitors , but without schema , you know how difficult to guess ...

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                                      Thank you for the help.

                                      Actually I see onboard only two 1117 regulators (both visible on the image uploaded).
                                      How comes the readings are ok if they are different from one regulator to another?

                                      Second, how can I check the resistance on the 000 smd? (Sorry... Treat me like a child please...)

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 dead?? Maybe not?

                                        Originally posted by momaka View Post
                                        Well, the good news with that is that I see nothing wrong in those readings. The bad news is that we still have the problem unsolved. :\


                                        Interesting.
                                        I have completely forgotten about those threads.

                                        I don't know about removing the transistor near the 1117, but I see an SMD resistor with a "000" next to it. Does this "000" resistor connected to the tab of the 1117 regulator? (Check this with your multimeter by seeing if you get less than 2 Ohms resistance.) If YES, you can try removing that "000" resistor temporarily to see if the 1117 outputs a normal voltage and stops overheating. That way, we know if the cap and 1117 regulator are at least somewhat okay.


                                        That's a good idea, but you have to make sure the 1117 regulators are not adjustable (and if they are, then make sure the adjust resistors on pin 1 of the faulty regulator matches that of another 1117 regulator). Otherwise, those 1117 regulators could be set to output different voltages.

                                        Ok I think I did the measurement you required.
                                        Putting the red probe on the tab and the black probe on one end (or the other) of the 000 resistor, I obtain 475ohm.
                                        The same if I invert the probes.

                                        Did I made a correct resistance measurement?

                                        That said, the trace clearly goes from the tab to the capacitor and from the capacitor to the resistor as far as I can see (you can see on the image as well).
                                        Last edited by Uazzamerican; 02-01-2017, 02:14 PM.

                                        Comment

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