Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > General Topics > General Capacitor Questions & Issues
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools
Old 01-08-2019, 04:22 AM   #901
Heihachi_73
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
City & State: Melbourne
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 589
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Yep, "pfffffffffffffffffffffffff"

They look absolutely tiny, was this a 200W unit? Looks like something got a bit toasty in the bottom left of the second photo too.

(Replying to my own post above, aside from the two Fuhjyyu mains, the Thermal Master was full of JEE caps, surprisingly none have blown up yet).
Heihachi_73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 04:34 AM   #902
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,397
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Can't remember exactly what its power was, but it was worth fixing just for testing stuff, since it was just one cap at the end of the day
__________________
Wattevah...
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 05:22 AM   #903
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 909
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyx View Post
Can't remember exactly what its power was, but it was worth fixing just for testing stuff, since it was just one cap at the end of the day
It's a crappy noname 450W unit. I remember as I had one and it had anorexic heatsinks along with crappy ChengX caps and YongXing VZ primaries and it your picture matches exactly the description I gave.
__________________
Main rig:
ASUS H61M-A
Core i3-3220 3.30GHz
MSI Twinfrozr GTX 750Ti 2GB GDDR5
6GB DDR3-1066
Samsung SH-224AB DVD-RW
Raidmax RX-500XT (recapped)
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB
JNC RJA-52 case
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 02:07 PM   #904
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,853
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Actually, that residue looks like dust. Unless a cap vented from the bottom, the residue is also too close to the PCB for the residue to have come from that cap that blew its top.
__________________
PeteS in CA

Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.

Where might is right
There is no right.
- Sophocles in "Antigone"
****************************
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
****************************
To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 02:28 PM   #905
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,397
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Or it came from the resistor just barely visible in the first pic, though it appears to be the cleanest part there. Certainly not dust as I remember the PSU was clean, so it couldn't have been dusty in just that small patch and of such white color. "PSU dust" tends to be brown
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 03:57 PM   #906
Sparkey55
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
City & State: OK
My Country: USA
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 1,531
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyx View Post
Found this in an ATX supply and I thought it might be interesting: not sure if that white "fog" is directly related to the bulged cap, but I believe it is, since I haven't seen anything like that so far...what is that ? Has anybody seen this before ? :| Does electrolyte "vape" like that ?
Most likely fine dust buildup from air flow (or lack of...) eddy currents.
Sparkey55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 10:09 AM   #907
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,853
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

The residue looks to me like it is deposited on wires nearest case vents, in a pattern that suggests the residue came from outside of the PSU.

As to color, over the decades I've seen a range of color shades, from light tan to medium brown. I suspect that folks who live in areas where the soil is red clay see reddish colored dirt.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 02:27 PM   #908
diamon
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

@PeteS in CA: these vented caps from the bottom where in a Panasonic SC-PT 660 Home Theater System. I have seen much more of this brand (KZE) and popped (bottom or top).



I have replaced them with Panasonic FM ones, I always use Panasonic as replacement.
diamon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 03:05 PM   #909
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,952
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

For Chemicon KZE to pop like that ^ , there must be something very VERY wrong with the circuit design they were in - either too much ripple current, poor ventilation, or perhaps voltage overshoot above rated voltage. These caps don't look counterfeit either, so it really has to be something with the circuit / device design to kill them like that. I bet the same thing will happen to the Panasonic caps a few years down the road.
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 03:06 PM   #910
Wester547
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,220
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

KZE is a series by Nippon (United) Chemi-con. They are usually known to be good capacitors. It’s the KZG (easy to confuse with KZE) and KZJ series that are known to be wholly unreliable. As with momaka, I’m guessing those KZE died by way of excessive heat.

Last edited by Wester547; 01-17-2019 at 03:08 PM..
Wester547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 03:12 PM   #911
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,853
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Given the condition of those sleeves, I'd be concerned about hot adjacent components and cooling in that part of the unit. It's been almost 10 years, but I have tortured many KZEs, HEs, FMs, and ZLs to "death" (8X-10X rated ripple current, 22 hours a day, until the parts failed catastrophically). All four series (among others) performed well and similarly; NCC/UCC, Nichicon, Panasonic, and Rubycon are all good companies, producing - mostly - good products.

So if this Home Theater System is yours, I'd be careful about the environment in which you use it and keep an eye on those FMs. All four of the series I listed above use water-based electrolytes, and electrolytes of that type seem more sensitive to heat than non-aqueous solvent-based electrolytes (e.g. LXZ, PW or PA, or FC series).

For my part, 10 years ago was also two companies ago and I now have a different sort of job.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 03:20 PM   #912
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,853
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
For Chemicon KZE to pop like that ^ , there must be something very VERY wrong with the circuit design they were in - either too much ripple current, poor ventilation, or perhaps voltage overshoot above rated voltage. These caps don't look counterfeit either, so it really has to be something with the circuit / device design to kill them like that. I bet the same thing will happen to the Panasonic caps a few years down the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
KZE is a series by Nippon (United) Chemi-con. They are usually known to be good capacitors. Its the KZG (easy to confuse with KZE) and KZJ series that are known to be wholly unreliable. As with momaka, Im guessing those KZE died by way of excessive heat.
Heh! We were all typing responses at about the same time. One thing diamon did not mention is the age of the home theater system. If it's 5 or more years old with lots of on time I'd be concerned about the environment in which it's used - stuff blocking airflow and cooling vents. Much under 5 years old and I'd worry about the internal environment - correct choice of part, adjacent hot components, poor airflow or convection path. If it has a fan I'd check that, too, though a bearing wearing out would be aurally obnoxious.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 03:26 PM   #913
dmill89
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
City & State: Harrisburg, PA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
Posts: 1,625
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Quote:
Originally Posted by diamon View Post
@PeteS in CA: these vented caps from the bottom where in a Panasonic SC-PT 660 Home Theater System. I have seen much more of this brand (KZE) and popped (bottom or top).



I have replaced them with Panasonic FM ones, I always use Panasonic as replacement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
For Chemicon KZE to pop like that ^ , there must be something very VERY wrong with the circuit design they were in - either too much ripple current, poor ventilation, or perhaps voltage overshoot above rated voltage. These caps don't look counterfeit either, so it really has to be something with the circuit / device design to kill them like that. I bet the same thing will happen to the Panasonic caps a few years down the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
KZE is a series by Nippon (United) Chemi-con. They are usually known to be good capacitors. It’s the KZG (easy to confuse with KZE) and KZJ series that are known to be wholly unreliable. As with momaka, I’m guessing those KZE died by way of excessive heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
Given the condition of those sleeves, I'd be concerned about hot adjacent components and cooling in that part of the unit. It's been almost 10 years, but I have tortured many KZEs, HEs, FMs, and ZLs to "death" (8X-10X rated ripple current, 22 hours a day, until the parts failed catastrophically). All four series (among others) performed well and similarly; NCC/UCC, Nichicon, Panasonic, and Rubycon are all good companies, producing - mostly - good products.

So if this Home Theater System is yours, I'd be careful about the environment in which you use it and keep an eye on those FMs. All four of the series I listed above use water-based electrolytes, and electrolytes of that type seem more sensitive to heat than non-aqueous solvent-based electrolytes (e.g. LXZ, PW or PA, or FC series).

For my part, 10 years ago was also two companies ago and I now have a different sort of job.
Agreed, it looks like the Panasonic SC-PT 660 is an HTIB (Hone-Theater in a box) system that is barely bigger than a DVD change but claims "1000W" (428W in the small print but still a lot for such a small system), and that is a lot of power (and this heat) in such a small case so it is no surprised that it roasted the caps (I'm honestly surprised none of the BGA chips have failed yet), and it will almost certainly roast the new ones eventually too, but given that it lasted nearly 10 years (looks like it was circa 2008-2009) the new caps will probably last until well after it is obsolete (or another component fails).

Last edited by dmill89; 01-17-2019 at 03:27 PM..
dmill89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 06:18 PM   #914
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,853
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

If diamon got 8 or 10 years of life out of those caps, that isn't too shabby, though the failure mode is visually dramatic. That system does look like it could be made part of a stack in a position that compromises airflow or convection. That would be a user issue rather than a design issue, of course.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 08:29 PM   #915
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,952
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmill89 View Post
Agreed, it looks like the Panasonic SC-PT 660 is an HTIB (Hone-Theater in a box)
Oh wait a minute, I missed that part!

I just serviced a SC-PT770 last month for some family friends - had a shorted MLCC near one of the class-D amp ICs. And this was actually the second time this has happened (first time was a little over 8 years ago).

Going by the pictures, that SC-PT660 looks very similar, if not identical.

With that said, I can tell you that the SC-PT770 has a small 50 mm fan on the back that provides cooling to the heatsink with the class-D amp ICs. The fan runs constantly when the system is turned On, but at a fairly low speed. There are filtering caps of the same specs as the ones diamon posted above, and they are sitting fairly close to the class-D amp ICs. In which case, I suggest to diamon to check the fan and make sure it works well.

I did a thermal check on the SC-PT770 that I was servicing, and the class-D amp IC heatsink didn't run to hot - just a little warm after normal listening volume with lots of bass output. Maybe 40-45C. The warmest heatsink was the one with the primary switch IC for the main PS - probably ran somewhere around 55-60C. But there are no caps near that primary heatsink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmill89 View Post
system that is barely bigger than a DVD change but claims "1000W" (428W in the small print but still a lot for such a small system), and that is a lot of power (and this heat) in such a small case so it is no surprised that it roasted the caps
Yeah, I don't know about those ratings...

The SC-PT770 I worked on is also rated for 1000 Watts... of "music content", of course - whatever the heck that means.

But even the "428" Watts rating is ridiculous. Don't trust me? Let's look at the speaker drivers, then: the two tall skinny "tower" speakers contain one or two 2.5" cone tweeters (depending on model - the SC-PT770 has only one in those tall plastic towers... what a waste, right? ), the center channel also has 2x 2.5" tweeters, and the surround speakers also 1x 2.5" tweeters each. I've opened the above set, and these tweeter speakers are just your average 3-5W tweeters. Maybe 8W if you're an optimist (I'm not!) So if that system is to output 428W, most of that would have to be in the woofer... which is a 6.5" cone type with a 10" passive radiator. Now, I've seen 6.5" car audio woofers rated for up to 100-200W RMS, and they have huge magnets and weight a ton. The entire woofer box on this SC-PT770 with its cabinet does not come close to weighting what one of these car audio woofers would.

So yeah... no way the woofer can do that much power. I think even 100W is too optimistic for the woofer... but I've digressed very far now.

Anyways, the point is: that SC-PT660 system very likely won't consume more than 100 Watts of power on a normal basis, just like the 770 didn't after I serviced and tested it. And with class-D amp ICs, there would be maybe 10-15 Watts max. dissipated inside that box under high power output - which the fan should still handle easily if it works fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
Heh! We were all typing responses at about the same time.
LOL, that was funny, indeed.

Three people mentioning the same thing (that perhaps the caps were abused somehow) should throw a caution that there may be something wrong with that system. Thus, I certainly suggest diamon to dig deeper if he still has that system.

Last edited by momaka; 01-17-2019 at 08:34 PM..
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 07:14 AM   #916
diamon
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

I did not make photo's of the board, but did find it with Google.
Replaced also those 22uv 100v caps, one was bulged and the others had a very high ESR and a low UF value.


The ventilation in this device is poor, not much airflow in it (I cleaned all the dust that was in it also the fan).
Home Theater System is not mine, I repaired it for a colleague and have no idea about the age or the history. I did advise him to unplug it from the 220V when it's not being used (no 220v switch available on the back) and not to stack anything on top of it.
The rated for 1000 Watts, for one split second I think. 1000 watts > PMPO power
The colleague confirmed the next day, that the problems are solved and it's working like it should.

I have an Onkyo TX-NR807 system, Onkyo has replaced the HDMI board under the extended warranty.
I don't use the standby option on this Onkyo and it's has plenty airflow (it's on top of a cabinet), so doesn't have any heat issues.
diamon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 07:31 AM   #917
madan1
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
City & State: Sofia
My Country: Bulgaria
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 326
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Thomas the Capacitor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ezgif.com-video-to-gif.jpg (23.9 KB, 7 views)
madan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 07:04 AM   #918
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,460
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

wut?
__________________
Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

Exclusive caps, meters and more!
Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 01:27 PM   #919
madan1
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
City & State: Sofia
My Country: Bulgaria
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 326
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
wut?
if this means that the gif is not accessible, here - have a zipped avi
Attached Files
File Type: zip test.avi.zip (13.09 MB, 5 views)
madan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 09:55 PM   #920
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,952
Default Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Quote:
Originally Posted by madan1 View Post
if this means that the gif is not accessible, here - have a zipped avi
Well, even that didn't work too good.
WMP complained of missing codec, as usual (but that's no surprise - who uses WMP anyways, right? ). Meanwhile, VLC complained the file is corrupt/broken, but gave me an option to try and "repair" it. It sort of worked - saw a few frames with a tantalum cap puff some smoke. So I got the joke about "Thomas the Capacitor" now!

BTW, this forum converts all GIF files to JPG, so that's why the GIF didn't work.

Last edited by momaka; 02-10-2019 at 09:57 PM..
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2019
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:40 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?