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    #21
    Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

    I really don't see a problem with overclocking, so long as you stay within the voltage ratings for the components you're using, test it thoroughly for stability, and keep a close eye on the temperature. I routinely overclock my 24x7 systems this way and have yet to see a failure from it. This is in contrast to those on XS, who routinely pump electric-chair type voltages through their equipment. And then they wonder why it fails.
    Last edited by acstech; 02-11-2008, 10:36 PM.
    A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

    Comment


      #22
      Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

      I looked at the ASUS boards, and ran away screaming when I saw they all have the JMicron chip installed.

      The knowledge I got from the XBit Labs reviews (thanks for the tip) is the Crazy Cool plate under the processor interferes with mounting large heat sinks. I want to use a Thermalright Ultra 120, which can't be used on the older boards. The current rev DS4 allows removal of Crazy Cool without disturbing the remaining heat pipe assembly.

      I opted for the plain DS3 version (no heat pipe), which I found as a new board from an eBay seller in the U.K. This model is non-existent from my regular USA suppliers, so I plunked down a high bid on this board. I really don't want JMicron, nor RAID in my personal board, so DS3 is the ticket.

      There is a generous northbridge heatsink, but the reviewer says it still gets quite warm, so additional fan cooling is required. I'm OK with that. Perhaps Thermalright or Zalman offers a robust cooler for the NB.

      Newegg is selling the new E8400 Core2 Duo with 6mb cache for a price within my range. DDR2-800/CAS4 is within my price range. I notice the OC DDR2 is dramatically more expensive.

      Comment


        #23
        Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

        E8400 Core2 Duo, haven't looked into those
        and yeah your right they do have the JMicron chip and i know there were issues with them (just not sure if its the same one as on the GB)

        yeah that too with the crazy cool thing on the GB
        (forgotten about that but I thought it was removable...well the review I read they pulled it p35 DQ6 I think)
        I just use the normal heat sink but seems a better heat sink wouldn't go astray

        I wondering if there was a bit of a rough patch with Gigabytes MB during the Rohs change over as period but these later ones I have seen much bad comment on.
        (not that I have been really looking of late)

        like I said I was very close to buying one and sometimes I think I should have.


        acstech yeah Ocing by pumping it up a bit is one thing but what that lot get up too
        no thanks

        This MB has OC features and I notice it worked a bit better games wise when there on
        but since mostly I dont need it I dont do it

        Well good luck with the Auction Bgavin hope you get it for less then your max bit
        bit surprised its not available in the usa.

        is it this one here (rev 2.0) here ?
        According to the web site usa has them for sale Here but thats not to say they Do carry them (I've founds out that sometimes you lot get less then the rest of the world with somethings due to the way the sales work over there or something)

        Then again you are probably using a wholesaler for your stuff

        Again good luck with the Auction

        Cheers
        You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

        Comment


          #24
          Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

          E8400 yeah i saw them as well, good price. pricing is a little wierd here (173 euro) whilst the 6850 is 215-250 euro???? 8400 is also offered tray at 170 euro. now who in their right mind would choose to save only 3 euro......

          Q6600 2.4 is looking less interesting at 245 euro now.
          capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

          Comment


            #25
            Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

            I have seen your bid on the UK board. My input is that if I want to minimise price I do not bid early. I wait for the last 30 secs before bidding, this can reduce bidding war, gives a chance to decide what max you are willing to bid to win in the last seconds. At that time enter your absolute max, you may win at a low price if nobody can bid in time or there is no hidden high max bid by another.


            Perhaps I am telling you what you already know.
            Gigabyte EP45-DS3L Ultra Reliable (Power saver)
            Intel E8400 (3000Mhz) Bios temps. 4096Mb 800Mhz DDR2 Corsair XMS2 4-4-4-12
            160Gb WD SATAII Server grade
            Nvidia 8500GT 256Mb
            160Gb WD eSATAII Server grade for backup.
            Samsung 18x DVD writer
            Pioneer 16x DVD writer + 6x Dual layer
            33 way card reader
            Windows XP Pro SP3
            Thermaltake Matrix case with 430W Silent Power
            17" Benq FP737s LCD monitor
            HP Officejet Pro K5300 with refillable tanks

            Comment


              #26
              Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

              E8400 here in Aust I checked statice got from $240
              (conditions apply as in buy something else) to about $340

              Average seems to be about $265~80 AU


              I paid $240 from memory for the 6750 (6850 was like $100 more ) thats a few months back thought (looks like it still the same or close too)

              E8500 here is again $100 odd more

              Q6600 (G0) is like from $320~330

              thats retail type prices on all the above
              You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

              Comment


                #27
                Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                seems thats the way a lot do it davmax...
                I have lost stuff in the last 30 seconds quite a few times
                also there is some auto bidding things...I have never really looked at them but think thats the way they do it too.

                still I reckon buy local so you can take it back if it don't work is the way to go
                suppose there are some honest Ebay sellers that will honor there sales
                (cross country would probably make shipping expensive thought, part of the reason I dont use amazon much...shipping costs to OZ)
                You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

                Comment


                  #28
                  Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                  Originally posted by acstech
                  I really don't see a problem with overclocking, so long as you stay within the voltage ratings for the components you're using, test it thoroughly for stability, and keep a close eye on the temperature. I routinely overclock my 24x7 systems this way and have yet to see a failure from it. This is in contrast to those on XS, who routinely pump electric-chair type voltages through their equipment. And then they wonder why it fails.
                  I agree. I'm a moderate, stability-minded overclocker and haven't found anything wrong with it as long as it's properly pretested. I avoid overclocking busses and RAM, but I don't mind overclocking a processor and have enjoyed significant gains from doing so.

                  As an example, my current desktop is a mobile Barton 2400+, which is officially spec'd to run 1800/133. I put it on a desktop board and passed stress tests at 2200/200 (equal to a 3200+). Many people would stick with that, but I prefer to validate with a 3-5% safety margin on the whole machine, which prompted a test at 2310/210. This caused a memtest86 failure.
                  So I dropped it to 2100MHz instead (= 3000+). At that setting, the 5% FSB margin test was successful. I've had the same approach to a few other systems I overclocked in the past, and none of them ever developed any stability problems.

                  I don't mind the crazy XtremeSystems types having their fun, in fact I like seeing what they can come up with. But they have little right to complain when things break.
                  For the stability minded, overclocking can be done responsibly - it doesn't have to be reckless.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                    eBay,
                    I used to do the bid-war thing until I realized it is silly.
                    -
                    If there is a max you are willing to pay it will be the same with 30 seconds left as with 3 days left.
                    -
                    If in the last 3 seconds someone is willing to bid more than you then it won't matter if your bid is 2 days old or 2 seconds.
                    -

                    If you are going to be outbid ANYWAY,,, being out bid earlier has a great advantage.
                    -
                    You can begin looking for another deal much sooner vs wasting your time waiting for the last 3 seconds to get here in an auction you are destined to lose.
                    (And perhaps missing out on another deal completely due to a pending auction.)
                    .

                    Waiting and bidding in the last 3 seconds is a lot more FUN.
                    But it isn't going to change the outcome.

                    .
                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                    -
                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                    - Dr Seuss
                    -
                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                    -

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                      I don't mind the crazy XtremeSystems types having their fun, in fact I like seeing what they can come up with. But they have little right to complain when things break.
                      For the stability minded, overclocking can be done responsibly - it doesn't have to be reckless.
                      Agree...fine if you want to push to extremes and see just how far you can go
                      but if it blows its your problem don't blame the manufacturer for it.
                      (most all that "do", understand this but from a post or 2 it seems some think its Asus fault)
                      I don't mind reading the posts on it either and it can be interesting what they come up with.

                      On ebay yeah it can be fun but if you go with the expectation of getting something super cheap mostly you wont.
                      Unless its a pissed off wife that sells your Lotus Esprit Turbo for a 50 pence

                      cheers
                      You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                        Actually I have won many bids in the last few seconds. I think the rules may have changed. If you bid the max early the next bidder may be informed they are not the highest bidder and escalation can occur.


                        Correct if there are many alternatives you may waste time, however I have had many occassions when it is a rare and super prospect so it is worth the stategy and wait. The only time you miss is if another bidder is willing to pay a higher maximum than you are willing to pay.

                        Right it can be fun.
                        Gigabyte EP45-DS3L Ultra Reliable (Power saver)
                        Intel E8400 (3000Mhz) Bios temps. 4096Mb 800Mhz DDR2 Corsair XMS2 4-4-4-12
                        160Gb WD SATAII Server grade
                        Nvidia 8500GT 256Mb
                        160Gb WD eSATAII Server grade for backup.
                        Samsung 18x DVD writer
                        Pioneer 16x DVD writer + 6x Dual layer
                        33 way card reader
                        Windows XP Pro SP3
                        Thermaltake Matrix case with 430W Silent Power
                        17" Benq FP737s LCD monitor
                        HP Officejet Pro K5300 with refillable tanks

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                          the strategy would work on those that bid small increments and that I guess is what you got to hope for with the bidders that your up against esp in the last 30 seconds or so

                          if someone drops a high bid early your somewhat stuffed I guess and just hope you max is over theirs...

                          I dont know what the ground rules are these days but yeah I got a feeling they did change them.

                          its also an idea to check the competition for what your bidding on and see if you can get a handle on how they bid

                          A few auctions I have been up against the same bidders and knew what there max was likely to be from their previous auctions and bidding patterns.
                          You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                            I am an experience sniper on eBay. There are valid points on both sides of the argument. I did an early bid, then did a 2nd bid to up my initial bid.

                            This will tell a competitor two things: I want the item, and that I increased my bid. He can play Bidding War if he chooses, but runs the risk of getting stuck with the item.

                            I dunno, either way for sure. Problem is, this is the only vanilla DS3 I can find anywhere, so I have to ante up for it. If I can't get it new, at new price, I will settle for DS3R. I can disable the RAID, but suspect the chipset might be slower in non-RAID mode.

                            Look for firesales on the E6750, now that E8400 is available in the same price range. The 6MB L2 cache is inviting, as tests show a larger L2 is directly related to better performance in Core2 Duo.

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                              Originally posted by bgavin
                              I dunno, either way for sure. Problem is, this is the only vanilla DS3 I can find anywhere, so I have to ante up for it. If I can't get it new, at new price, I will settle for DS3R. I can disable the RAID, but suspect the chipset might be slower in non-RAID mode.
                              I don't think sata performance will be lower in any non-raid mode because it's a fake raid: parity check isn't calculated in hardware by the chipset but in software by the cpu. Chipset' and bios' job is only to join all phisical drives in a single or multiple logical ones and allow an os to start from them. From your point of view the disadvantage is financial: the raid version is more expensive, so you pay for a [supposedly] premium function you will never use.
                              You may face some performance degradation if you disable all sata2 features, such as ncq, because drives behaves as pata or sata1 models. I don't think this should have a noticeable impact on performance anyway.

                              Zandrax
                              Last edited by zandrax; 02-13-2008, 02:56 PM.
                              Have an happy life.

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                                Contrary to what ADVERTISERS have convinced the whole world of:

                                Since about 10 years ago the Interface speed has very little to do with drive performance.
                                Since ATA-66 a drive's performance bottle-neck has been the head to disk transfer rate which until is far FAR slower than the Interface speed.

                                Using loose (off the top of my head) numbers:
                                (And assuming 7200 RPM drives with the same buffer as each other):
                                -
                                The last generations of IDE drives (both ATA-100 and ATA-133) maxed out at about 60MB/sec on the head-disk rate and even SATA-1.5Gb drives never exceeded that.
                                [Same mechanicals. - Same head-disk.]

                                -- So, with single drives there is no difference at all in performance due to the choice of Interface used from ATA-66 through SATA-1.5.

                                (Larger buffers (which newer drives tend to have) do help but again that's NOT due to the Interface. - Yet somehow the Interface gets 'the credit' for the Improvement.)

                                Some (but not most) SATA-3.0Gb drives have improved mechanicals and have gotten head-disk up around 80Mb/sec but even that is less than ATA-100.
                                [MOST of them are still back at 60MB/sec.]

                                As SATA is always 1 drive/controller a SATA-100MB/sec (YES - 100MB/sec) Interface would be more than adequate as it exceeds the hardware part of the drive's capabilities anyway.

                                With IDE things are a little different because there can be two drives/controller and the two drive's head-disk are additive into the Interface.
                                If accessing two drives (on one Interface) at the same time and they are both 60MB/sec (2 x 60MB/sec = 120MB/sec)
                                .. a ATA-100 controller would limit the drives.
                                .. a ATA-133 controller wouldn't.

                                ---

                                With SATA there is no performance advantage just due to a faster Interface.

                                With IDE the only time a faster interface helps you is if you want to access multiple drives at the same time.

                                .

                                If you are concerned with drive performance stop looking at the Interface.
                                It's importance is misinformation used to sell drives.

                                Various RAIDs improve things.
                                Higher RPM improves things.
                                8MB and up buffers improve things.
                                Using smaller capacity drives improves things. (But only a TINY bit.).

                                .

                                Around 2003-ish hard drive manufacturers stopped putting head-disk rate information in their drive's data sheets. - Now you know why...

                                .
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                                  Originally posted by zandrax
                                  I don't think sata performance will be lower in any non-raid mode because it's a fake raid: parity check isn't calculated in hardware by the chipset but in software by the cpu.
                                  Now there is an eye-opener... I figured that Intel was doing it all in the ICH9R. The last damn thing I want is Microsoft diddling with my array stability.

                                  I guess that is why Adaptec still sells their RAID cards.

                                  Q: is the add-on Adaptec RAID doing all the handling of striping, parity, etc, or is it again done in a driver or other software?

                                  I'm so used to working on big Compaq servers with caching RAID controllers, that I have no experience with consumer grade controllers.

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                                    I do not know much about consumer RAID cards (just like yourself), however it is my opinion that an add-on card would do everything and not leave anything to be done in software. Having said this, a cheap $40-$50 RAID card probably won't do everything in hardware.

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                                      I agree with PCbonez that the head to disk rate is limiting and also varies across the surface of the disk. The rate being a product of surface velocity and data density. So the velocity is highest at the outer edge and density is highest with the new vertically polarised hard drives. Vertical polarisation and increased rotational speed have bought a marked improvement in transfer rate. Unfortunately the mechanicals are still the biggest limiting factor with access times in milli seconds compared to microseconds. The increased buffer sizes help with these massive access delays. Additionally there are delays imposed by error checking, raid server class drives have delays in this area removed (This is the type of drive that I prefer).
                                      Last edited by davmax; 02-13-2008, 08:59 PM.
                                      Gigabyte EP45-DS3L Ultra Reliable (Power saver)
                                      Intel E8400 (3000Mhz) Bios temps. 4096Mb 800Mhz DDR2 Corsair XMS2 4-4-4-12
                                      160Gb WD SATAII Server grade
                                      Nvidia 8500GT 256Mb
                                      160Gb WD eSATAII Server grade for backup.
                                      Samsung 18x DVD writer
                                      Pioneer 16x DVD writer + 6x Dual layer
                                      33 way card reader
                                      Windows XP Pro SP3
                                      Thermaltake Matrix case with 430W Silent Power
                                      17" Benq FP737s LCD monitor
                                      HP Officejet Pro K5300 with refillable tanks

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                                        Originally posted by shadow
                                        an add-on card would do everything and not leave anything to be done in software. Having said this, a cheap $40-$50 RAID card probably won't do everything in hardware.
                                        Only the more expensive RAID cards take the full load from the processor.
                                        The ones that do all the work for the CPU will have an actual processor and memory on the card. (A common CPU is the i960.)

                                        The problem with those though is that if the card itself fails you often have to acquire and EXACT replacement right down to the firmware to recover your array and data.
                                        - That puts you right back at single point of failure reliability. One part (the card) fails and 'you're done' unless you have a second card waiting on your parts shelf.
                                        [So you have to buy TWO expensive cards AND they have to match if you can't afford to be down for a while.]

                                        I am more concerned with not loosing anything than speed.
                                        (7200 RPM / 8MB buffer is good enough for me without stripping.)
                                        I still use IDE drives and I only mirror.
                                        I've chosen the 'non-hardware' Promise cards for my RAID. The reason is they store the array data on the drives themselves vs in a firmware on the RAID card. All the card does is read the array data off the drive and then start up the array. Also the various different models report the same device ID to the OS and use the same drivers. So, if a card fails I can swap in almost any similar type promise RAID card (from ATA-100 thru ATA-133) and I'm back in business.
                                        -
                                        I haven't tried this yet but I understand it works, so I understand I can literally take a PATA drive array, add the IDE-SATA adapters, attach them to a Promise SATA RAID card and I'd still be okay.
                                        [I just got a Promise SATA RAID card (it came in a server I bought for the mainboard) and I want to try this just to see, but I have yet to scrounge up some IDE-SATA adapters.]

                                        .
                                        Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                        -
                                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                        - Dr Seuss
                                        -
                                        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                        -

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Re: Gigabyte P35 Boards

                                          Originally posted by PCBONEZ
                                          With IDE things are a little different because there can be two drives/controller and the two drive's head-disk are additive into the Interface.
                                          If accessing two drives (on one Interface) at the same time and they are both 60MB/sec (2 x 60MB/sec = 120MB/sec)
                                          .. a ATA-100 controller would limit the drives.
                                          .. a ATA-133 controller wouldn't.
                                          The other limitation you run into is the standard PCI bus. It's 32-bits wide at 33MHz, giving a total shared system bandwidth of 133MB/sec. There's faster variations of course, but almost nobody has them. Since there's other things also using the bus, ATA-133 can't accomplish anything meaningful vs. ATA-100, even with multiple drives. I don't think anybody but Maxtor ever bothered implementing it on their drives - their competitors saw no reason to pay the royalty for something so useless.

                                          The same problem would affect SATA RAID PCI cards.

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