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Old 02-01-2019, 09:23 PM   #3001
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
Well, the most recent date code I spotted in the pix was "9752", on the PCB. So this was built in early 1998. This is consistent with the .7A 5VSB rating.
Late 90's sounds about right, especially with that 5VSB spec, as you mentioned. Also, I just noticed a Gateway logo on the second case shot, so this most likely came out of a Gateway PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
We had to change the 7805 to an LM317, because the 5VSB turned on too fast with the 7805. By using the LM317 we were able to use a cap across an adjustment resistor to slow the 5VSB rise time. The customer, Sun Microsystems, was concerned that too fast a rise time might damage CMOS gates in the relevant circuits.
Interesting.

I suppose that was a valid concern back in the day, as many motherboard ICs were directly connected to the PSU rails, including 5VSB. Actually, I think this went on pretty much until late-era socket 462 and 478 boards.

One of the reasons why many eMachines PCs died from the infamous Bestec ATX-250-12E PSU is because the socket 462 boards in those PCs typically had their LPC SIO, as well as some other TTL power control logic circuitry directly connected to the 5VSB. Thus, with the 5VSB from the Bestec overshooting to 10V or more, many of those ICs died. I actually have a board like that in my "for a rainy day" pile that I've attempted to fix. Most of the TTL ICs I mentioned were rated for 4.75V-5.25V. So no wonder they released the magic smoke.

Nowadays, the 5VSB on motherboards usually goes through a linear regulator of some sort (typically generating 3.3V stand-by) and then goes to the ICs. So many boards are somewhat more protected from overshooting and quick-rising 5VSB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
That is one beefy PSU! I might believe it good for 235W or 250W.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. For many OEM PSUs, the maximum rating on the label meant maximum _continuous_ power the PSU can supply (and even higher peak, if needed). Hence the overbuilding. Quite a contrast from the cheapo PSUs with 250-300W ratings that could only hope to peak that high for a few seconds before blowing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
The big usefulness limiter nowadays would be that 5VSB output current rating.
And the 12V rail! Even a Core Solo won't be able to run with that PSU.
But for an old 5V-heavy PC, it should be fine - especially socket 462 boards, as those usually didn't support S3 sleep (only S1, which means 5VSB was used, at the most, for WOL, WOR, and power by [PS/2] keyboard/mouse.) Actually, most Pentium II and 3 boards supported S3 sleep, but even those were stated to require no more than 500 ma to 1 Amp on the 5VSB. So I have a good number of motherboards that will work with this PSU.
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:26 AM   #3002
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Something new for Entertainment:
DSC_5390 (Forums).jpg DSC_5391 (Forums).jpg DSC_5385 (Forums).jpg
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:45 PM   #3003
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

^ Oh come on - would it really kill you if you posted a label shot?
I really dislike playing this "guessing game" as to what it is. Yes, it's an ATX PSU. Yes, it's fully modular **. Yes, it has APFC and sync. rectification. And yes, it has crap cap brands on the outputs. With that said and not knowing how much it's rated for on the label, it's hard to judge it. Overall, I'd say it looks OK. But really, it's just another modern unit without anything noteworthy.

** Regarding the fully modular thing: I just don't get why they make the 20/24-pin connector modular too. It's not like you will use this in a server or to power your phone... or whatever else. No, it's an ATX power supply meant for an ATX mobo and thus will have its ATX connector always used. There's really no reason to add extra resistance with modular connectors, at least for the ATX cable. And it's just another cable that can get lost when people "put these away" in their closets, or wherever.
Sorry, I just don't get the whole "looks over function" thing, which modular seems to push in some way.

But again, other than that, it seems like an OK PSU. Maybe even better with a recap. I'd guesstimate it's rated for 450-550 Watts range? Perhaps 600W with some magic?? At least I like how they pushed all of the components towards the back of the PSU where the vent is (especially that primary heatsink), so that the fan can blow air more easily into the PSU... that is, hoping this is not one of those "eco" designs that doesn't run the fan until temperature X (read: components cooking) is reached.

Last edited by momaka; 03-06-2019 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:11 PM   #3004
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Yes, let's save half a watt of power in exchange for putting the whole thing in landfill years earlier!
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:36 AM   #3005
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
^ Oh come on - would it really kill you if you posted a label shot?
WHere's the fun in that?
But honestly, its a 650W PSU with 20A on minor rails.
with the blue PCIe Connectors, its obvious who sells it (hint: Stone and Silver)

With the Caps I strongly disagree: I see 1 Taicon and a bunch of Teapo SC. I'm fine with that.

The JunFu/AsiaX and ChengX mix in CWT GPS units worry me more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
With that said and not knowing how much it's rated for on the label, it's hard to judge it. Overall, I'd say it looks OK. But really, it's just another modern unit without anything noteworthy.
https://www.silverstonetek.com/produ...id=813&area=en


Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
** Regarding the fully modular thing: I just don't get why they make the 20/24-pin connector modular too.
People not knowledgable about electric stuff want the shit be modular.
I'M fine with a semi modular PSU with ATX, CPU and one PCIe cable with 2 connectors hardwired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Sorry, I just don't get the whole "looks over function" thing, which modular seems to push in some way.
You know too much.
People still consider an almost 10 year old group regulated unit without OCP anywhere, no OTP and UVP on 12V as good, even for 50 or more, just because "Wapanese Caps", wich are made in China anyway because Import Tax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post

But again, other than that, it seems like an OK PSU. Maybe even better with a recap. I'd guesstimate it's rated for 450-550 Watts range? Perhaps 600W with some magic??
hm, its 650W and possibly 750W as well.
The 2 Polymer Caps are whopping 1500F/16V ones.

So the capacity on 12V is at least the same as the CWT GPS thing, that one:
https://img.tweakpc.de/image/dsc-4476-andere.FEe
Has 6x470F/16V and 2x2200F on 12V...

This one has 2x1500F + 2x2200F/16V right next to it. However, there is a big 3300F/16V Cap right next to the DC-DC Module...
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
At least I like how they pushed all of the components towards the back of the PSU where the vent is (especially that primary heatsink), so that the fan can blow air more easily into the PSU... that is, hoping this is not one of those "eco" designs that doesn't run the fan until temperature X (read: components cooking) is reached.
No, its not semi-fanless (pls bash Seasonic and Corsair for that shit) and it has a rather high fan speed.
What I measured is around 800rpm or so. Of course only 120mm. And a sliht sirring sound. Not too annoying like the Hong Hua Fan in the CWT GPS I linked above. And that one was 750W...

Just some nice note:
The +12V Rectifyer are heatsinked to the Case with a big Thermalpad, wich is a nice touch.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:31 PM   #3006
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
with the blue PCIe Connectors, its obvious who sells it (hint: Stone and Silver)
Yeah, well I don't spend all day reading PSU reviews or do enough builds with Silverstone PSUs to know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
With the Caps I strongly disagree: I see 1 Taicon and a bunch of Teapo SC.
Because you have the unit in front of you. I can't see jack-schit from those pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
You know too much.
Lol, don't be so quick to ironize me! After all, you provided nothing more than three sub-3MP pictures with more or less questionable focus and lightning. And I am supposed to figure it all out from those?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
People still consider an almost 10 year old group regulated unit without OCP anywhere, no OTP and UVP on 12V as good, even for 50€ or more, just because "Wapanese Caps", wich are made in China anyway because Import Tax...
I couldn't care less about OCP, OTP, or if it's group-regulated or not. As long as the PSU works well, lasts a long time, and doesn't kill the PC when it fails, it's fine with me.

As for claiming that all Japanese caps are made in China... not true at all!!! All of the major Japanese brands still have factories in Japan. They just don't make as many as they used to (or rather produce only certain series), so that's why much of the manufacturing is outsourced to China, Taiwan, Indonesia, and etc. But certain series are still made in Japan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
No, its not semi-fanless (pls bash Seasonic and Corsair for that shit) and it has a rather high fan speed.
What I measured is around 800rpm or so. Of course only 120mm.
Good!
It's also nice to see 120 mm fan used instead of 140 mm - allows the PSU to be more compact, which can be useful for some mATX cases.

Last edited by momaka; 03-07-2019 at 06:33 PM..
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:08 PM   #3007
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Yeah, well I don't spend all day reading PSU reviews or do enough builds with Silverstone PSUs to know that.
Oh well, its enough that you know how to repair them
That's a Skill I don't really have so my old 420W Super Flower (Silentmaxx) unit died for no reason...

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Because you have the unit in front of you. I can't see jack-schit from those pictures.
OK, you want more pictures. Why don't you say so?
Your wish is my command:
DSC_5392 (Forums).jpg DSC_5393 (Forums).jpg DSC_5394 (Forums).jpg DSC_5395 (Forums).jpgDSC_5396 (Forums).jpg DSC_5397 (Forums).jpgDSC_5398 (Forums).jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Lol, don't be so quick to ironize me!
That was ment to be about the not hard wired ATX Connector, nothing else.
But to be honest: As long as its not done like the Huntkey X7/1200W (wich I can't use right now because I misplaced the Power Cable), I'm fine with whatever...
Though hardwired is better, causes less problems...

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
After all, you provided nothing more than three sub-3MP pictures with more or less questionable focus and lightning.
Yeah, I need to work on that but don't want to spend the money for that

Here 2 Original ones:
DSC_5391.jpg DSC_5390.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
As for claiming that all Japanese caps are made in China... not true at all!!! All of the major Japanese brands still have factories in Japan. They just don't make as many as they used to (or rather produce only certain series), so that's why much of the manufacturing is outsourced to China, Taiwan, Indonesia, and etc. But certain series are still made in Japan.
Yes, I was not clear enough.

The Caps you buy from Digikey/Mouser are probably not made in china but somewhere else.

The Caps that you find in something that is made in china is very likely made in China. At least the Caps inside of PSU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Good!
It's also nice to see 120 mm fan used instead of 140 mm - allows the PSU to be more compact, which can be useful for some mATX cases.
Yeah, but the Fan They used I don't particularly like.
D12SH...

A 140mm fan would prove difficult with this unit
You know Silverstone. They want it small.
And this PSU is rather small -> 140mm long. And the Conectors are not outside the PSU (like the Strider Platinum)...

I kinda like the Plattform.
Though I have to take out my two 7970 and ram that inside, to test it for max. load to see how fas thte fan spins then.

Last edited by Stefan Payne; 03-07-2019 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:30 AM   #3008
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's pretty funny that they could not find a spot to solder the X capacitor to.
Considering it's actually glued ontop the main PCB maybe it would have fit there lol
Or on the input PCB mounted on the backside, or make that a few mm larger.
But no, lets's just put some flying wires and hot snot, she'll be alright
DSC_5390_Crop.jpgDSC_5394_Crop.jpg


As for your pictures: all you need is some better lighting.
You can build a lightbox with a white bed cover and a few pieces of wood.
Then just use a really high power floodlight outside it (500w halogen) it will look much better and costs almost nothing...
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:21 PM   #3009
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

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Originally Posted by Per Hansson View Post
As for your pictures: all you need is some better lighting.
You can build a lightbox with a white bed cover and a few pieces of wood.
Yeah, maybe put some whitener onto the wallpaper...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Hansson View Post
Then just use a really high power floodlight outside it (500w halogen) it will look much better and costs almost nothing...
One slight Problem: There is no Power in that room.
And I need to put a cable there somehow...

Well, needs some drilling and so...
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:41 PM   #3010
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
OK, you want more pictures. Why don't you say so?
I did - I wanted a picture of the label!
But I suppose all the other pictures you posted will do, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Though hardwired is better, causes less problems...
Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Yeah, I need to work on that but don't want to spend the money for that
Yeah, that's understandable. Come to think of it, my setup isn't very good either. If anything, I simply rely on the fact that I have very good natural light in my room (which is where I take most of my pictures.) If it wasn't for that, my pictures would be terrible. So that's just lucky on my part. That said, I'm quite limited to what days I can snap pictures. If it's cloudy outside with thick dense clouds, I'll have to wait for another day.

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Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Yeah, but the Fan They used I don't particularly like.
D12SH...
Eh. I consider fans as consumable parts, regardless of what bearing type they have. After a certain number of years / hours, you just either have to replace or relube it (whichever applies.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Though I have to take out my two 7970 and ram that inside, to test it for max. load to see how fas thte fan spins then.
Oh, you have two 7970's?? I'm not going to be worried about you staying warm in the winter then.
Even one of those should be a pretty decent load test for the PSU. But two of them? Who needs a SunMoon PSU tester when you have those?!

As a bonus, maybe you will also be able to see your power meter "whizz" :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut5DXxK1dvk

Last edited by momaka; 03-12-2019 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:33 AM   #3011
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
I did - I wanted a picture of the label!
You got a Link to the Manufacturer, that's better
its ST65F-GS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Oh, you have two 7970's?? I'm not going to be worried about you staying warm in the winter then.
Even one of those should be a pretty decent load test for the PSU. But two of them? Who needs a SunMoon PSU tester when you have those?!
Well, funny thing is that TWO 7970 are about the same or even less than a VEGA64 with +50% powertarget...

And the Gigabreit are freaking annoying with that shit Heatsink and the 7970GHz/280X BIOS...

So the 7970 doesn't consume that much power at all. Just the Heatsinks of many cards are utter horse shit.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:33 AM   #3012
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Yeah, but the Fan They used I don't particularly like.
D12SH...
that part number looks like a yate loon 120mm sleeve bearing fan. consider yourself lucky that its an open sleeve bearing fan so its serviceable if it fails! most modern sleeve bearings are now all sealed so gg if it fails...

the only inconvenience is having to open up the power supply every year to lube the fan constantly to avert failure. but u have to open up the psu every year or so anyway to blow and clean the dust bunnies out to avoid getting the heatsinks clogged with dust and killing the psu anyway so what the hell...
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:55 PM   #3013
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
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You got a Link to the Manufacturer, that's better
its ST65F-GS.
Ah, I missed seeing that somehow in your post above. Sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Well, funny thing is that TWO 7970 are about the same or even less than a VEGA64 with +50% powertarget...
I don't know about that.
HD7970: 250 Watts TDP
Vega64: 295 Watts TDP
HD2400 XT: 19W TDP

Don't mean to turn this into a GPU discussion but... how do you folks tolerate such power-hungry GPUs in the summer?! I can understand in the winter, as it doubles basically as a space heater. But summer, when temps here inside go above 80F / 28C... not a chance I'd use one of those. Granted that in idle/desktop mode, they don't use much power... but then what's the point of having such a powerful GPU if you're not going to game or render with it?

Quote:
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So the 7970 doesn't consume that much power at all. Just the Heatsinks of many cards are utter horse shit.
No, it does eat quite a lot of power... but I do fully agree with you that many cards indeed have inadequate "horse shit" coolers

Speaking of GPUs and power usage... remember this PSU from a few pages back?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...postcount=2960
To save you from reading its repair thread... basically I fixed it but didn't have caps for the APFC, so I removed the APFC altogether. Managed to get the PSU working and thought maybe it will just function with a slightly reduced power rating.
Well... all I have to say is, its power rating was more than "slightly" reduced. Trying to run an overclocked under-volted Q6600 (2.95 GHz @ 1.23V core) and a GTX560 works... as long as I don't do OCCT PSU test. If I do, the PSU simply shuts down. I guess APFC PSUs can't be used without their APFC circuit, after all. But up to 250 Watts from the wall, that PSU will do. (Yeah I know, 250W is a joke, isn't it - even a crappy Deer can do as much probably. But in its defense, this PSU still pulled good efficiency numbers: about 10-15W lower power draw from the wall compared to a 2T-forward no PFC FSP PSU. And as another comparison, the same PC with an Antec Earthwatts EA-500 80+ APFC PSU, the power draw was about 15-20W more than the Enermax PSU... so looks like APFC does lower efficiency a bit. Of course, all of that was taken with my Kill-A-Watt meter, so take those results with a grain of salt, perhaps. )

Last edited by momaka; 03-15-2019 at 08:00 PM..
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:36 PM   #3014
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

FSP Aurum 550w CM

Primary Side with 450V Panasonic HC Capacitor

Secondary Side With Nippon Chemicon KZE Capacitors. Daughterboard handles protection duties.

Barely visible on the chip due to lighting,FSP 6600 IC.

Transformers. Massive 12V Coil.

Transient Filtering.


All capacitors are:
-Panasonic for Primary Capacitor.
-Rubycon for the small capacitors.
-Nippon Chemicon for all secondary capacitors,barring the lone Rubycon.

It is Group Regulated, based on the active clamp resonant forward topology with synchronous rectification.

Phone camera can only do wonders on low light conditions,sorry for the bad pictures.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FSP 6600 IC.jpg (474.0 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg FSP Aurum 550 CM.jpg (726.6 KB, 173 views)
File Type: jpg Nippon Chemicon KZE.jpg (557.6 KB, 172 views)
File Type: jpg Primary side+PFC.jpg (586.2 KB, 176 views)
File Type: jpg Secondary Side.jpg (680.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Transformers.jpg (510.1 KB, 170 views)
File Type: jpg Transient Filtering.jpg (625.5 KB, 168 views)
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:47 PM   #3015
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Beautiful ... power supply porn!
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:01 PM   #3016
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

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Originally Posted by Sacon_FZ View Post
FSP Aurum 550w CM...
Nice solid-looking unit.
Only thing I will nick it for is the 270 uF primary cap - seems a bit on the low side for a 550 Watt unit. 330 or 390 uF would have been preferable. More if the PSU is supposed to be "upper" -tier. You can even see there is space on the PCB for a bigger cap.

Other than that, not much else to complain about on this one.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:49 AM   #3017
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

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Other than that, not much else to complain about on this one.
-no OPP I think
ANd Group Regulated...

but it should be rather cheap for a gold unit at the time.
Today its to be avoided...
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:33 PM   #3018
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

https://www.fsplifestyle.com/PROP162000499/

Retail box and manufacturer website says it has OPP.

I have no fancy schmancy load tester to test it,though
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:13 PM   #3019
momaka
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

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Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Today its to be avoided...
Why would that be? Just because it's group-regulated?

From what I see, most OEM builds today still use group-regulated double-forward (and in some cases, just STF) 200-350W PSUs. It's hardly an issue, even with modern hardware, where power draw variations between idle and max load can be quite large sometimes.

Also, I'm pretty sure the above PSU should have OPP, as just about any single and double forward design usually does. Perhaps you meant OCP? I do see at least one current shunt in the above PSU. though.

Last edited by momaka; 04-02-2019 at 06:17 PM..
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:23 AM   #3020
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Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Why would that be? Just because it's group-regulated?
Yes and the brutal transient.
Try a double forward with VEGA. Or x080ti from nVidia. That is aweful.
It works but not something you'd want.

The Power Saving mechanisms are just that brutal with modern Hardware...

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
From what I see, most OEM builds today still use group-regulated double-forward (and in some cases, just STF) 200-350W PSUs.
hm, no, not really.
You can't have a group to regulate if you don't have a group, can you? ;-)
Those PSU are usually single voltage.

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
It's hardly an issue, even with modern hardware, where power draw variations between idle and max load can be quite large sometimes.
Maybe, maybe not. I know that old first Generation HEC units back in the day had a pretty brutal Voltage drop.

But why risk it when you can get lower end DC-DC units for 40 and every mid range from pretty reputable Manufacturers have DC-DC anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Also, I'm pretty sure the above PSU should have OPP, as just about any single and double forward design usually does. Perhaps you meant OCP? I do see at least one current shunt in the above PSU. though.
FSP Aurum ain't no Double Forward Design.
Its Active Clamp Reset.
Based on the Proprietary FSP6600 series for the primary and secondary (3,3V only) 6601. My be quiet Pure Power 10 with independant regulation has two of those FSP6601 on a modular Board.

Here Picture:
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