Xbox 360 repair attempt

[SM-Piyes90]

So after making sure the PSU is good , i have decided to open the console it self and see whats going on inside .

I have discovered a leaky capacitor ( sanyo 1500 uF 16V ) , and checked all the MOSFETS around the power supply section , i was really surprised , all the ONSEMI 4806 ones were having a short between drain and source .

I don't know if that's part of the circuits design or they are all fried ??

Also is it possible to change the 1500 uF cap with a 2200 uF or 1000 uF?

[momaka]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

Please post a picture of your board and indicate which MOSFETs appear shorted. *Some* of the MOSFETs around the CPU and the GPU should indeed appear shorted, but not all. It's a synchronous buck circuit - you have a group of MOSFETs between 12V and CPU/GPU Vcc, and another pair between CPU/GPU Vcc and ground. The latter always appear shorted until CPU/GPU are removed from the board or the torroids around CPU/GPU desoldered.

Yes, you can use a 2200 uF or 1000 uF cap, as long as it is rated for at least 16V. I suggest keeping capacitance the same or going up (i.e. 1500 uF or higher) but not going lower. The 1000 uF cap will work too since the other 1500 uF 16V caps are in parallel with it so the drop in capacitance won't matter as much overall.

That said, if you do have more of those Sanyo 16V 1500 uF capacitors anywhere on the board, replace them too. I've been told they fail fairly often. Can't confirm it from personal experience since I've seen very few boards with these Sanyo caps. The boards with Panasonic FL, Nichicon HN, and Rubycon MCZ on the other hand, always appear to be fine in my experience.

Your replacement cap(s) should have matching or superior ESR/impedance and ripple current rating specs, though. So you can't really just use any 1000 or 1500 or 2200 uF cap. Has to have at most 12 mOhms ESR/impedance and at least 2700 mA ripple current.

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

Please post a picture of your board and indicate which MOSFETs appear shorted. *Some* of the MOSFETs around the CPU and the GPU should indeed appear shorted, but not all. It's a synchronous buck circuit - you have a group of MOSFETs between 12V and CPU/GPU Vcc, and another pair between CPU/GPU Vcc and ground. The latter always appear shorted until CPU/GPU are removed from the board or the torroids around CPU/GPU desoldered.

Yes, you can use a 2200 uF or 1000 uF cap, as long as it is rated for at least 16V. I suggest keeping capacitance the same or going up (i.e. 1500 uF or higher) but not going lower. The 1000 uF cap will work too since the other 1500 uF 16V caps are in parallel with it so the drop in capacitance won't matter as much overall.

That said, if you do have more of those Sanyo 16V 1500 uF capacitors anywhere on the board, replace them too. I've been told they fail fairly often. Can't confirm it from personal experience since I've seen very few boards with these Sanyo caps. The boards with Panasonic FL, Nichicon HN, and Rubycon MCZ on the other hand, always appear to be fine in my experience.

Your replacement cap(s) should have matching or superior ESR/impedance and ripple current rating specs, though. So you can't really just use any 1000 or 1500 or 2200 uF cap. Has to have at most 12 mOhms ESR/impedance and at least 2700 mA ripple current.

Thanks momaka
Now , i am glad that they are normally shorted , like you said not all but only the 4806 that are .

In the mean time the problem i got with this xbox is that it displays 3 red lights with a 0001 error code or 4441 using the sinc button .

And the xbox was rarely used BTW

Here is the mobo with the shorts in black and cap to be replaced that i found bulged :

[Dan81]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

Thanks momaka
Now , i am glad that they are normally shorted , like you said not all but only the 4806 that are .

In the mean time the problem i got with this xbox is that it displays 3 red lights with a 0001 error code or 4441 using the sinc button .

And the xbox was rarely used BTW

Here is the mobo with the shorts in black and cap to be replaced that i found bulged :

Are you sure that's a Sanyo?IIRC the T vent was on Panasonic caps,while Sanyo caps had a K vent.

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

Are you sure that's a Sanyo?IIRC the T vent was on Panasonic caps,while Sanyo caps had a K vent.

The mobo on the picture is not mine , its just to show momaka where i found the shorts

And you are right the sanyo one have a K vent similar to rubycon .

Could this 0001 error be caused by aging caps all around the mobo ?

[stj]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

http://www.eurasia.nu/wiki/index.php/Xbox360ErrorCodes

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

http://www.eurasia.nu/wiki/index.php/Xbox360ErrorCodes

Nice , i will check the connections between the PSU and the motherboard .

I have still a small problem guys , after removing some caps for change , i have a really hard time emptying the solder holes with the iron , i don't know if its cold joints or high melting point solder alloy that makes it hard to remove .

[stj]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

neither,
it's a large track you cant see inside the layers of the board.

if you can clear one hole,
you can heat the other and then slip the cap in while it's molten.

[momaka]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

In the mean time the problem i got with this xbox is that it displays 3 red lights with a 0001 error code or 4441 using the sinc button .

Yup, as the wiki article says, 0001 is a power problem. Take the power brick where you can see its light and power on the Xbox again. When you turn on the Xbox, it should change from orange to green and stay green until you press the power button on the Xbox again. If it changes to red, you might actually have a real short circuit across one of those MOSFETs that appear shorted or perhaps somewhere else on the board.
However, if the light on the power supply goes back to orange, try a different power brick or external power supply (a PC PSU with at least 16A on the 12V rail may work - I can show you how to wire it if needed).

Here is the mobo with the shorts in black and cap to be replaced that i found bulged :

Normal for those MOSFETs to appear shorted. However, they can still be shorted, though. It's hard to test them due to the CPU and GPU on the board (the CPU and GPUs appear as a very low resistance on the meter). The only way you can narrow it down is after you perform the above test.

Could this 0001 error be caused by aging caps all around the mobo ?

Yes, possibly.
Was the board ever overheated? Also, are you the original owner? If not, beware that someone before you could have performed the "towel trick", oven reflow, or a heatgun reflow - all of which can damage the caps.
Either way, I suggest replacing all of those Sanyo caps. If one has failed, the others are probably not far behind.

I have still a small problem guys , after removing some caps for change , i have a really hard time emptying the solder holes with the iron , i don't know if its cold joints or high melting point solder alloy that makes it hard to remove .

Both lead free solder and big copper planes make it hard to clear the holes. I never bother to completely clear the holes, though. Instead, I use a cork board tack/pin, heat the hole, and just partially clear the hole (i.e. I just make a slight indentation in the solder on the top side where the cap goes). Then I just "wiggle" or "walk" the new caps back in. It's the reverse of this method (which I use for removing caps):
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...7&postcount=23

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

Normal for those MOSFETs to appear shorted. However, they can still be shorted, though. It's hard to test them due to the CPU and GPU on the board (the CPU and GPUs appear as a very low resistance on the meter). The only way you can narrow it down is after you perform the above test.

What made me think that they are not shorted is the resistance , the resistance is very symetrical between all the mosfets , i guess if a dead short has happened it will display a near 0 or at least 0.2 on diode mode , but on the first group i get 0.4 , second group i have 1.3 .

And i have already usoldered the first group and found no short at all .

Any ways i hope its just a power supply problem , and not a reball thing .

Thanks momaka

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

Hi again , the xbox now runs but i get 0012 error , i didn't put the heatsink yet

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

All OK AFTER HEAT SINK SET UP

[stj]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

btw,
if you want it to last - put a spare cpu heatsink on the gpu and put the dvd drive outside the case.
or get rid of the dvd,
jtag/glitchmod the console,
and put your games on the harddrive.
if you get rid of the dvd - remember to jumper ground & "tray-closed" pins on the mobo connector.

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

btw,
if you want it to last - put a spare cpu heatsink on the gpu and put the dvd drive outside the case.
or get rid of the dvd,
jtag/glitchmod the console,
and put your games on the harddrive.
if you get rid of the dvd - remember to jumper ground & "tray-closed" pins on the mobo connector.

Nice advices .

I was thinking about glitching too , too much noise with that drive .

[momaka]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

Hi again , the xbox now runs but i get 0012 error , i didn't put the heatsink yet

You'll always get an error code if you test an Xbox 360 without a heat sink.
In general, tests without a heatsink where one should be, are not a good idea.

And yes, if you want your 360 to last a little longer, do as stj suggested: remove DVD drive and put a spare CPU heatsink over the GPU. You can actually get an Xbox 360 CPU heatsink for cheap on eBay. Since it uses the same mounting holes, it will fit nicely.

jtag/glitchmod highly advised too. Not only it makes the Xbox quiet, but it also doesn't wear your DVD drive anymore. Laser diodes in a drive are pretty much a consumable item.

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

You'll always get an error code if you test an Xbox 360 without a heat sink.
In general, tests without a heatsink where one should be, are not a good idea.

And yes, if you want your 360 to last a little longer, do as stj suggested: remove DVD drive and put a spare CPU heatsink over the GPU. You can actually get an Xbox 360 CPU heatsink for cheap on eBay. Since it uses the same mounting holes, it will fit nicely.

jtag/glitchmod highly advised too. Not only it makes the Xbox quiet, but it also doesn't wear your DVD drive anymore. Laser diodes in a drive are pretty much a consumable item.

Okey .

I have two PS3 motherboards with the famous YLOD similar to the E74 error on xbox , and i was told that the main problem is the GPU soldering connections to the PCB witch get broken due to heat .

I am wondering if i could use the hot air to remove it and redo the solder again from scratch ? i just don't know if they were already reflowed .

[momaka]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

I have two PS3 motherboards with the famous YLOD similar to the E74 error on xbox , and i was told that the main problem is the GPU soldering connections to the PCB witch get broken due to heat .

Most of the time, that is the problem. But unlike the Xbox 360's which give you a nice secondary code to help pinpoint what the problem might be, the YLOD is a very general hardware error. Among other things that fail often for the PS3 is the NEC/Tokin caps.

I am wondering if i could use the hot air to remove it and redo the solder again from scratch ?

With a heat gun? Not a chance. Even with a proper BGA station it is very hard to lift and reball the GPU. The only thing you can do with a heat gun is to try to "reflow" the GPU, although most of the time the fix either won't work for very long or won't work at all.

If these are older, fat PS3s, it's probably a better idea to sell them on Craigslist or similar and put the money towards something else. The fat PS3s have more problems that I care to write about here.

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

The fat PS3s have more problems that I care to write about here.

Sounds very reasonable .

I appreciate your previous advices btw .

[stj]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

you have to decap the cpu & gpu on ps3's - that's a pain in the ass.
most people dont know about the cpu, but the "paste" under the metal cap is crap and needs to be replaced - it's not always a gpu problem.

you can usually spot a reflowed gpu btw - first the cap is almost always removed - it has to be to get the heat down.
second - most people (i think i'm the only exception!!) are too lazy to clean the flux off afterwards.

[SM-Piyes90]

Re: Xbox 360 repair attempt

If i can get at least one working its a win , i bought them both for 40 euros + reball service for 50 euros .

On the other hand , i doubt that the reball will fix it if the GPU was pre-reflowed by someone .

Time to open then and investigate .