New Windows License Agreement.

[Spork Schivago]

Hey guys, have you seen the new Microsoft Agreement?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serv.../upcoming.aspx


Some parts I'm interested in and a bit confused about...

Office Services
i. Office Services. Office 365 Home, Office 365 Personal, Office 365 University,
Office Online, Sway, OneNote.com and any other Office 365 subscription or
Office-branded Services are for your personal, noncommercial use, unless you
have commercial use rights under a separate agreement with Microsoft.

Am I to understand that I cannot use Office 2007 Home and Student edition in a commercial environment anymore?

Then:

Software License
...
a. If you comply with these Terms, we grant you the right to install and use
one copy of the software per device on a worldwide basis for use by only one
person at a time as part of your use of the Services. For certain devices, such
software may be pre-installed for your personal, non-commercial use of the
Services. The software or website that is part of the Services may include
third-party code. Any third-party scripts or code, linked to or referenced from
the software or website, are licensed to you by the third parties that own
such code, not by Microsoft. Notices, if any, for the third-party code are
included for your information only.

Am I to understand that OEM editions of Windows pre-installed on a PC can no longer be used for commercial use? Or am I hopefully reading that wrong?

What's sad (but not surprising) is the Cortina update, where they state you agree to let Cortina check and download updates automatically, and how it can share info with 3rd parties, etc. I believe it already does this, but they're just making it a bit more clearer to people, so there's no confusion.

And of course, if you decide to sue them, you have to do it in their jurisdiction, and if I read it right, they won't cover much, 10$ for free software, and maybe the cost of the software that ruined the hardware, even if they knew the software was going to ruin the hardware....

Something you guys might wanna check out.

[goontron]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

^ I don't think that extends to EOL software, no.

[stj]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Libre Office.
problem solved!

[diif]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Home and Student edition was never meant for commercial purposes, this isn't new.

[Curious.George]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Office Services
i. Office Services. Office 365 Home, Office 365 Personal, Office 365 University,
Office Online, Sway, OneNote.com and any other Office 365 subscription or
Office-branded Services are for your personal, noncommercial use, unless you
have commercial use rights under a separate agreement with Microsoft.

Am I to understand that I cannot use Office 2007 Home and Student edition in a commercial environment anymore?

Note that "Office 2007 Home and Student Edition" is not listed in the above quote. So, the terms of the license under which you purchased O2007H&S apply -- as supplemented by the terms of any and all upgrades that you may have chosen to install.

Software License
...
a. If you comply with these Terms, we grant you the right to install and use
one copy of the software per device on a worldwide basis for use by only one
person at a time as part of your use of the Services. For certain devices, such
software may be pre-installed for your personal, non-commercial use of the
Services. The software or website that is part of the Services may include
third-party code. Any third-party scripts or code, linked to or referenced from
the software or website, are licensed to you by the third parties that own
such code, not by Microsoft. Notices, if any, for the third-party code are
included for your information only.

Am I to understand that OEM editions of Windows pre-installed on a PC can no longer be used for commercial use? Or am I hopefully reading that wrong?

The "terms" apply to the versions of Office listed above. They're just acknowledging that your PC may come preloaded with such software (even if you didn't "know" or consciously purchase it).

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

We've been talking to Microsoft (the enterprise section).

Now I'm getting a bit confused here. I asked about Home and Student, and yes, it cannot be run in a commercial environment. But they said Office Pro could or Office Home and Business, but because I want Access, for Home and Business, I'd need to purchase a seperate license for Access, which actually costs me more than 2016 Pro.

Anyway, this is what I ran by them: We want to install Office in a KVM VM. Only one of the VMs will have office installed. Is this allowed?

Their response was so long as we had a valid key for each office installed in each KVM, this was allowed.

Then I asked about Windows 7 and explained how hard it was to buy a legitimate copy. They said running Pro in the VM WAS ALLOWED, again, so long as we had keys PER VM.

But another forum says this is not allowed and we need E1, E3 or maybe even E5 licensing with SA.

I did ask Microsoft if there was any way to obtain valid keys from them for 7, and they said yes, VLM, but we'd need to purchase a minimum of 5. This would work out well. He said no server edition is needed, one time payment, they're ours for life, and he helped me create an account for the business (A Microsoft one) and is going to have a Microsoft rep (or three (wtf?)) resellers contact me, via e-mail, in three to five business days to discuss prices.

So....is what Microsoft Enterprise say true?? Can I legally run Windows 7 Pro Retail in a VM, so long as each installation of Windows 7 Pro Retail has it's own key? Or do I truly need the SA licensing along with VLM? Same with Office 2016? I don't need anymore than one copy there! And I have to install it in the VM, if I go that route, which it seems we're going....

[diif]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Who better to ask about licensing than Microsoft ?
No Software Assurance is not required.

[stj]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

stop funding terrorists!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Who better to ask about licensing than Microsoft ?
No Software Assurance is not required.

That's what I thought, but then I ask myself, was I actually talking to Microsoft or a call center? The people on Spiceworks do show some links that seem to imply they might be right there.

We definitely have to keep this legit. There will be a very good chance we get audited and we want to make sure we're doing everything to the letter....

They (Spicework users) claim that you cannot legally login remotely to a 7 client without certain licenses. This was the very first reply I got:

Firstly, you are not legally permitted to run Windows OSe as VMs unless you have VDA licenses (for VDI, these requires MS E1 or E3 licensing and do not come cheap as usually involve volume licenses & SA etc).

One user points me to this link:

https://community.spiceworks.com/how...censing-how-to

Another points me to this:

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...nes-clarified/

So this gets a bit confusing. I'd be running Linux as the host OS. Some Windows 7 as VMs, some Linux distro's as VMs.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

stop funding terrorists!

I wish we could go with full Linux here Stj, but SolidWorks only comes in Windows format, so we have to go with Windows, and although I would love to not pay for the OS, I have to keep this business 100% legit.

We are very likely to be audited. The SBDC said so, because we plan on taking advantage of the tax deductions for the space used for the business, and I guess this is now a big red flag for the IRS and usually triggers one. So long as we're doing everything by the books, we will have nothing to worry about though.

This means we have to adapt my idea a bit. I was going to use tape on the floor to show what was business, what was residential. But that isn't allowed he said. We need some physical divider, like those cubical things, or a wall partition. I think we'll go for the cubical things, if we can find them.

[stj]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Libre Office runs on windowz.

[diif]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Another points me to this:

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...nes-clarified/

So this gets a bit confusing. I'd be running Linux as the host OS. Some Windows 7 as VMs, some Linux distro's as VMs.

No confusion, there's more than one way to license. You're not running Enterprise with SA as your host OS, which would cover 4 VMs so each VM needs a license. Pro, Retail not OEM.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Libre Office runs on windowz.

Yes, but SolidWorks does not support Libre Office, it supports Microsoft Office.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

No confusion, there's more than one way to license. You're not running Enterprise with SA as your host OS, which would cover 4 VMs so each VM needs a license. Pro, Retail not OEM.

That's the way I took the diagram there! I understood it to mean IF I was running Enterprise as the host OS, then I couldn't be using Pro like I'm using it, in a VM.

I am looking at purchasing 5 VLK's from Microsoft. I've never done this before, so I'm not certain how it works. I'm looking at purchasing Windows 7 Pro VLKs. I'm hoping they're not going to be crazy expensive, seeing how support for 7 is ending soon.

Thank you for the clarification Diif. I kept bringing that part up, I kept saying that looks like it's for machines running Enterprise 7 as the host OS, I'm running Linux as the host OS. But never really got anywheres, except for do away with Linux and buy Windows Server 2016.

Funny how sometimes my questions never get answered but people always give me advice that has nothing to do with the question!

Like how's the weather today?

<reply> Upgrade to Windows Server 2016!!!!!

Yeah, but how's the weather???

<reply> Seriously, upgrade to Windows Server 2016 and buy 5 CALs and hire someone to run your infrastructure for you, or switch to Azure!!!!

[diif]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

We did similar to the diagram detailed above at my last place because we had an EES license and could run what we liked.
We used Veeam for backing up the VMs.
You could probably pick up retail copies off ebay cheaper than Microsoft will sell you.
5 licenses hardly seems worth the time messing with Microsoft on the phone.

[Curious.George]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

I was going to use tape on the floor to show what was business, what was residential. But that isn't allowed he said. We need some physical divider, like those cubical things, or a wall partition. I think we'll go for the cubical things, if we can find them.

Set aside (whole) rooms for business.

Also, be advised that claiming any portion of your home as a business expense can alter the way it is treated (taxes) when it (the house) is sold.

By far, the easiest way to run a business out of your home is to rent the property. Or, rent a property for the business.

"Cubicle things" (office dividers) can usually be picked up for a song at local auctions (schools, businesses, etc.)

[Curious.George]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Yes, but SolidWorks does not support Libre Office, it supports Microsoft Office.

The "features" that it brings to Office (Word/Excel/PowerPoint) are pretty much insignificant. They are primarily just convenience features (so you can "checkout" a particular version from within the Office Suite -- instead of checking it out outside those applications).

(Hint: I don't run Office on anything, here, yet have no problems!)

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

We did similar to the diagram detailed above at my last place because we had an EES license and could run what we liked.
We used Veeam for backing up the VMs.
You could probably pick up retail copies off ebay cheaper than Microsoft will sell you.
5 licenses hardly seems worth the time messing with Microsoft on the phone.

Yeah, I know, but I can't find legit copies of 7 on e-Bay. I've now purchased 4 copies, all supposedly retail, and the keys have been black listed. They looked legit, always fake names and mailing addresses. But some want the "Factory sealed Retail" purchased mailed back before issuing a return.

Last one, I think we got his real name, and even though his e-bay name said something weird, like a foreign name, and claimed the package was coming from California, and the shipping label had a totally different return address then what his e-bay stuff said, with yet a different name, when we came to mailing it back, he was from NJ I think, and had a normal name.

Ebay paid for the shipping label. We told them this is getting ridiculous and if we had got caught running the software during an audit or something, we would have been in so much trouble! If we would have installed with the discs, it would have activated.

They look so real, got the holograms and everything, but the numbers don't match. There's numbers on the front of the disc that should match a number on the back, where the hole is. But those numbers don't match. Then the numbers on the boxes never match the discs, and the paper work that comes with it is always for OEM.

It's like the same counterfeiter selling using multiple accounts or something. We check the feedback score, we check the number of sales, the reviews, everything always looks good. We ask the seller questions, but all four times now, black listed key.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

Set aside (whole) rooms for business.

Also, be advised that claiming any portion of your home as a business expense can alter the way it is treated (taxes) when it (the house) is sold.

By far, the easiest way to run a business out of your home is to rent the property. Or, rent a property for the business.

"Cubicle things" (office dividers) can usually be picked up for a song at local auctions (schools, businesses, etc.)

We don't have whole rooms to set aside. So we set aside a portion of our basement. And we might not claim it. We are aware of the tax issues and what happens when it comes to sell, but also how claiming a portion of your house for a business is a red flag for an audit I guess. That's what the SBDC said. But he said if we weren't doing anything wrong, it didn't matter. We just needed to make sure we did EVERYTHING to the letter. No storing household stuff in the designated area, no not-work-related software on the PCs, etc.

Can't have the daughter playing in there half the day. That doesn't mean she can't come in to say hi once in a while, but it's gotta look like a business in whatever area we designate. According to the SBDC, it might not be worth the hassle for the little bit of money we might save.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New Windows License Agreement.

The "features" that it brings to Office (Word/Excel/PowerPoint) are pretty much insignificant. They are primarily just convenience features (so you can "checkout" a particular version from within the Office Suite -- instead of checking it out outside those applications).

(Hint: I don't run Office on anything, here, yet have no problems!)

Yes, this is true, but there's other software we're going to be using, and most businesses seem to have Office installed. We've used Libre to create many documents, but when we open them in Office, the formatting is off, or the layers are wrong (ie, a picture, instead of being in the background, is now in the foreground and hides all the words).

I think we're just gonna stick with Office for the Window VM or machine, and then Libre for the rest.

I'm assuming using Libre in a production environment is not against the law...Access is nice, and interfacing with Access is something I know how to do. Writing code that interfaces with Libre's version of Office is something I do not know how to do. So I could learn it, hopefully, or just concentrate on writing the code I need to write knowing what I know, using the programs that I know. One less thing to worry about.