Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Troubleshooting Hardware & Devices and Electronics Theory > Troubleshooting Game Consoles & Other Weird Devices
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-05-2016, 04:22 PM   #21
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,934
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Heat the board to around 100-120C, then remove it - it will come off much easier when hot. If you are afraid of warping/damaging the board when hot, though, then you can try to remove it when cold too. It will just come off harder.
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2016, 06:34 PM   #22
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 20,714
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

dont mess with the x-clamps, if you pull the sink harder you bend the board.

if you want a 360 to keep working, remove or relocate the dvd drive and fit the gpu with a spare cpu heatsink (the big one)
stj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2016, 05:52 AM   #23
vinceroger69
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
City & State: Nuneaton Warwickshire
My Country: uk
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 5,779
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Thanks for the info guys and yes the glue removed easy with the use of a hair dryer i used to struggle not sure why i didnt think of heating it before.
vinceroger69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 10:09 AM   #24
The_Killer53
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
City & State: Bradford
My Country: England
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 10
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Hey everyone. I have been looking through some caps and I'm wondering if these caps can be used on my board:

Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF <--> Nichicon 2200μF 6.3 V, VZ Series 10 x 20mm

Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Nichicon 1500μF 16 V, PM Series 12.5 x 25mm

If not could you guide me to any that can be

- Thanks

EDIT:

Also could I change a Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF <--> 820uf 6.3v

Last edited by The_Killer53; 03-09-2016 at 10:20 AM..
The_Killer53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 12:19 PM   #25
vinceroger69
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
City & State: Nuneaton Warwickshire
My Country: uk
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 5,779
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
As for reflowing and reballing, we used to do that with a proper rework station. But if you all have is a heatgun, you can still do a proper reflow. Just do NOT bake the board in the oven, as that *will* destroy all of the electrolytic capacitors. I've seen this mistake way too many times.

I wouldn't say that Mad_Professor's way of doing is wrong, but I do have some things to add to that process.

First and foremost, you *will* need proper flux for lead-free solder. Regular rosin may not do so well (in fact, it may burn of and harden way before the lead-free solder melts, which may actually cause an even worse chance of successful reflow). Kingo RMA-218 is a cheap Chinese generic that works fairly well. But I think Kester had some better fluxes available.

As for the reflow process itself:

1) Clean around the chip you will be reflowing with 90+% IPA (isopropyl alcohol).

2) Make a heat shield for any nearby capacitors. I've seen way too many people not do that and pop the caps on their board. Aluminum foil works fine for that. Don't completely cover the caps, though - we are not trying to cook a Turkey here . Just cover them on the side that they are likely to get hit by hot air from the heat gun.

3) Place the board on some kind of a metal stand so that you have access to both the top side and the bottom. I usually do this by clamping metal rods to a table and have the metal rods sticking past the edge of the table. Then I place the board there, so I can have access to both the top and the bottom of the board. This way, I don't have to flip the board when it is hot, which greatly reduces stress on the various BGA components on the board. The chip you are trying to reflow/remove/rebal should always be on the top side.

3a) (Optional, but very highly recommended) If you have a type-K temperature thermometer, put the thermocouple probe near the chip you will be reflowing. Don't put it on the ship itself or under its BGA, as that may actually cause the chip to move out of place once it is hot. As for type-K thermometers, the Lutron TM-902C can be found for about $5 on eBay, and I highly recommend it.

4) Assuming you have a high-power dual temperature heat gun, turn ON the heat gun to the low setting (which should be around 500 Watts, give or take 150) and heat the board from the bottom side, focusing mostly in the area under the BGA chip you are trying to reflow.

5) When the temperature readout of the type-K thermometer reaches 150C-160C (if you don't have a thermometer, it will probably take 3-5 minutes to get up to that temperature), stop heating and gently apply flux around the edges of the chip. The hot air coming from between the board and the chip will actually suck the flux right into the BGA, so no need to worry how to put the flux under the chip. Also, do NOT drown the chip in flux. Too much flux can actually cause the solder balls to move around and short out to each other.

6) Switch the heat gun to the high setting (should be around 1000 Watts) and continue heating the chip from the bottom of the board.

7) When the temperature reaches around 180C (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), stop the heatgun and carefully move it to the top side of the board. Begin heating the top side of the board on the high setting again.

8) When the temperature reaches around 220-230C and stays in that range for 10 seconds (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), turn OFF the heat gun.

9) Let the board cool down for about 10-20 minutes (this will depend on how hot/cold it is where you are working).

10) Remove protective heat shield around caps and test the board. (Don't forget to add thermal compound to the CPU and GPU, of course. )
Hi just followed this guide and the xbox now powers up fine, ive also done the 12 volt fan mod and no more rrod, so tomorrow i just have to change the dvd try drive belt as is slipping/worn then fully reasemble and then test i guess i will do the top fan mod too but have to order a couple as fancy the led and bearing type fans.
vinceroger69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 01:40 PM   #26
Wester547
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,220
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Killer53 View Post
Hey everyone. I have been looking through some caps and I'm wondering if these caps can be used on my board:

Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF <--> Nichicon 2200μF 6.3 V, VZ Series 10 x 20mm
Nichicon VZ is general purpose. Definitely not a suitable choice for the VRM output of the CPU and GPU, as HZ is the highest grade of wet electrolytics. You need to match or come close to matching the ESR and ripple ratings of the original capacitors.

Quote:
Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Nichicon 1500μF 16 V, PM Series 12.5 x 25mm
PM even in 12x25mm case size isn't rated for anywhere near the ripple current or ESR that Nichicon HN is. As stated above, you need to find replacements that are more or less equal to the originals as far as ripple and ESR goes (exceeding the ratings of the originals wouldn't hurt in this case).

Quote:
Also could I change a Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF <--> 820uf 6.3v
Ultra low ESR lytics would be an overkill for that application if that's what you're referencing.

Last edited by Wester547; 03-10-2016 at 01:43 PM..
Wester547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2016, 07:15 AM   #27
vinceroger69
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
City & State: Nuneaton Warwickshire
My Country: uk
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 5,779
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Hi guys ive just managed to make two xbox 360 out of the three i had.I have had to relow both and service the dvd trays so whilst apart i thought i would do the 12 volt fan mod (cut both fan lives from plug solder to one wire then connect too 12v bottom of power supply plug socket) yes this works fine and should stop the rrod for a little longer as better cooling the down side is its noisy can i lower the voltage down to say 9 volts i will be certainly higher than the 5 volts it was running so should keep the box cooler and hopefully quiter so what i need to know is can i use a resisitor in heat shrink to drop the voltage if so what size and what watt? the fans are 12v max 0.40 amp each (two fans on back now connected to one 12v feed) thanks guys.

Last edited by vinceroger69; 03-11-2016 at 08:22 AM..
vinceroger69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2016, 07:47 AM   #28
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 20,714
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

it wont help much, you really need to remove the dvd and put a bigger heatsink on the gpu.
also, mod the plastic ducting acordingly.

i'v tried the 12v mod in the past, and the top-fan - neither worked in the end.
the fucking dvd shields the gpu from the top-fan and stops you using a good enough heat sink.

jtag / glitch-mod it for harddrive loading and ditch the dvd if you can.
stj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2016, 09:48 AM   #29
The_Killer53
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
City & State: Bradford
My Country: England
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 10
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Nichicon VZ is general purpose. Definitely not a suitable choice for the VRM output of the CPU and GPU, as HZ is the highest grade of wet electrolytics. You need to match or come close to matching the ESR and ripple ratings of the original capacitors.

PM even in 12x25mm case size isn't rated for anywhere near the ripple current or ESR that Nichicon HN is. As stated above, you need to find replacements that are more or less equal to the originals as far as ripple and ESR goes (exceeding the ratings of the originals wouldn't hurt in this case).

Ultra low ESR lytics would be an overkill for that application if that's what you're referencing.
Hey, Thanks for the info. I have found an old board that I'm going to pull the caps from

- Thanks again!
The_Killer53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 03:37 AM   #30
The_Killer53
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
City & State: Bradford
My Country: England
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 10
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Hey, I was wondering could I change my Nichicon HZ 6.3v 2200uf to Nichicon 16v 1500uF ? Thanks.
The_Killer53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 10:05 PM   #31
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,934
Default Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Killer53 View Post
Hey, I was wondering could I change my Nichicon HZ 6.3v 2200uf to Nichicon 16v 1500uF ? Thanks.
The ripple and ESR specs of the Nichicon HN 16v 1500 uF are not as good as the Nichicon HZ6.3v 2200 uF specs. My guess would be they are still somewhat close enough to work. But, I never tried it, so I can't say from personal experience whether or not this will work for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Killer53 View Post
Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF <--> Nichicon 2200μF 6.3 V, VZ Series 10 x 20mm
Won't work (or not for long).
Nichicon VZ caps are general purpose 105C, as Agent24 noted. So that's not suitable. From electrolytic caps, your only choices are really only Nichicon HN, Nichicon HZ (again), or Rubycon MCZ. You won't find MFZ for sale anywhere online (if you do and they are not Xbox 360 pulls, BEWARE!)

If these are for the caps on GPU V_core or CPU V_core, you can also use 2.5V or 4V 820-1200 uF polymer caps. Just about any polymer brand and series will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Killer53 View Post
Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Nichicon 1500μF 16 V, PM Series 12.5 x 25mm
Probably won't work too well in the long run (if it does at all). Again, Nichicon PM does not quite poses the good ripple and ESR specs of Nichicon HN. I think Nichicon HW, Panasonic FR/FM, Rubycon ZL, and Chemicon KZE is probably as far down as you can go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Killer53 View Post
Also could I change a Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF <--> 820uf 6.3v
If that is just for spots, C5B4 and C5B2, then this should be okay. But I wouldn't suggest blindly using 6.3V caps in place of 16V caps anywhere else on the board. Could have a 12V rail somewhere and make one of those caps go kaboom .

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinceroger69
Hi just followed this guide and the xbox now powers up fine ... i will do the top fan mod too but have to order a couple as fancy the led and bearing type fans.
Nice!
Let us know how it turns up. Better yet, show us pictures when you are done with it and if you have time.
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2019
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:30 AM.
Did you find this forum helpful?