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Old 01-03-2018, 01:58 AM   #2601
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Rather than suspecting, just use your multimeter to see which MOSFET shows a low resistance between Source and Drain (and possibly Gate - that's a definite indication of a bad FET) that has traces going to the 12V rail on the Molex connector.
That MOSFET was actually next to the molex connector and on the 12v rail. I found the bad mosfets though, but I don't have that type of mosfet. (it's smaller than a normal MOSFET and has more legs).


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That game's graphics are so basic that it can run on virtually almost anything with 3D acceleration. Don't get me wrong, though - I love that game (and still play it occasionally by myself and with my nephew. )

But I ran it on an 16 MB S3 Savage 4 video card some 15 years ago with a Pentium II 400 MHz, and even that was okay. (Just FYI, when I hear something has an S3 video card, I immediately shiver ). So the Rage card running that is not very surprising.

Now try NFS Underground.
You'd probably get all kinds of "cool" dancing squares and rectangles.
It's a game I can run on a Radeon 7000 Pro with minimum settings (but at least it runs without "dancing polygons" ). And a Radeon 7200? Pshhh - that's classes above the Rage
Hey, it's better than nothing - a S3 Trio would likely choke on anything.

Although you're pretty much right, it's not really useful per se, other than for maybe testing older boards. (I have a Rage 128/Xpert 2000 for newer ones).

Speaking of which, is the Xpert2000 any better than the Rage 2C AGP? I got it from a dumpster found P4 (full with PSU and stuff, salvaged all of it except the case) but I never really got around doing anything with it.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't NFS UG the Geforce 2 - Geforce 4 territory by now? If so, I do have a GF2 MX400 and a GF4 MX440 8x around. (one with a cool gold PCB, just have to recap it (I ain't trusting STONE caps) and replace the heatsink with something better)
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:07 PM   #2602
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

A dozen 450GB Cheetah 15K SAS drives.

(Well, I thought I had taken 12 of them home but I only found 8 when I got there; perhaps 4 slid under the seat in the car or are still "waiting for me" back at the shop -- I'll check next week)

All test good but I've yet to go poking around their SMART data. And, I'll have to see how warm they get (and how many BTUs they throw off as it might be welcomed at this time of year but surely won't come Summer!)

Looks like someone decided to discard a bunch of MD1000's and didn't bother to pull the drives, first (amazing what folks will throw away when they have huge budgets and higher-ups who are clueless as to what's involved with the "technology"!)
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:03 AM   #2603
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
That MOSFET was actually next to the molex connector and on the 12v rail. I found the bad mosfets though, but I don't have that type of mosfet. (it's smaller than a normal MOSFET and has more legs).
Doesn't matter. As long as it's a standard single or dual N-ch MOSFET, you can use one or two TO-252 MOSFETs in its place soldered with thick short wires to the correct pins.

Start a new thread and post pictures if you want help with that.

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Hey, it's better than nothing - a S3 Trio would likely choke on anything.
Between a S3 Trio and a Rage GPU, there's hardly that much of a difference (maybe back in the day there was). Both are only good for DOS graphics IMO or maybe Windows 95 at best.

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Speaking of which, is the Xpert2000 any better than the Rage 2C AGP? I got it from a dumpster found P4 (full with PSU and stuff, salvaged all of it except the case) but I never really got around doing anything with it.
No idea.
This is the Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Rage
Looks like the Xpert 2000 may be slightly better... but I doubt there is any difference really. Even a Radeon 7000 will blow both of these out of the water - and that's a video card that you can get dirt-cheap these days (if not free) and readily available too.

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And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't NFS UG the Geforce 2 - Geforce 4 territory by now?
NFS Underground (and possibly Undeground 2) is DirectX 8.1 -based, but is backwards-compatible with DirectX 8.0 and 7 as well.

Depending on what your video card is capable of, some graphics features may or may not work (I think "Crowds" is one of those graphics options that strictly requires a DX 8.1 video card.)

That said, I've ran Underground on a Radeon 7000, 7200, and a 9200. Between all of these, clearly the Radeon 7000 is the slowest and can barely keep up with the game (not to mention the game renders in DX 7, so you only get basic car geometry and no transperant windows or any special effects like that). The Radeon 7200 looks similar, but runs the game faster. And the Radeon 9200 can run the game with all options enabled, but being a low-end video card, it runs on par (in terms of FPS) with the 7200.

On the nVidia side of things, the GeForce FX5200 has very similar performance to the Radeon 9200, but only supports DX 8.0 (despite the card being marketed as capable of DX9). Thus, some graphics features don't work on the FX5200, IIRC. Since the FX5200 is based on the same core as the MX400/420/440/460 and MX4000, you can expect similar performance. Actually the MX400 and 4000 lines are DX7 -based, so expect similar performance to the Radeon 7200 - i.e. not very good.

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If so, I do have a GF2 MX400 and a GF4 MX440 8x around. (one with a cool gold PCB...
I have a Riva TNT like that. The gold PCB looks very cool indeed. But not much of a card other that that. Probably only good for a Windows 95 PC with a Pentium CPU.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:33 AM   #2604
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Ebay score of a new in box Chenbro beige ATX case for $49 shipped. They have a bunch of them, but I only bought one just to see what the quality was like. On a scale of 10, its an 8. Excellent build quality, no sharp edges, not paper-thin steel....but it could have been a little thicker. Came with the topmotor 120mm fan and a 90mm in the front. Roomy case, and cheap. I'll probably grab a few more for future retro builds.















I'm working up a system to stick in this, a VP6 or another weird Tualatin board.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:42 AM   #2605
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
Ebay score of a new in box Chenbro beige ATX case for $49 shipped. They have a bunch of them, but I only bought one just to see what the quality was like. On a scale of 10, its an 8. Excellent build quality, no sharp edges, not paper-thin steel....but it could have been a little thicker. Came with the topmotor 120mm fan and a 90mm in the front. Roomy case, and cheap. I'll probably grab a few more for future retro builds.
A beige case with 120 mm rear fan?
Nice!!!
What an awesome sleeper case.
I imagine this is much better build than many of the modern $50 black "gamer" cases.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:33 PM   #2606
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Doesn't matter. As long as it's a standard single or dual N-ch MOSFET, you can use one or two TO-252 MOSFETs in its place soldered with thick short wires to the correct pins.
It's smaller than a normal MOSFET and has a lot more legs. (about 4-5 I think).

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Between a S3 Trio and a Rage GPU, there's hardly that much of a difference (maybe back in the day there was). Both are only good for DOS graphics IMO or maybe Windows 95 at best.
Yeah... I was pretty amazed to find one in a Duron 1300 machine. It was a 3D/2X AGP4x card. It died a quite sudden death and I couldn't identify the cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
No idea.
This is the Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Rage
Looks like the Xpert 2000 may be slightly better... but I doubt there is any difference really. Even a Radeon 7000 will blow both of these out of the water - and that's a video card that you can get dirt-cheap these days (if not free) and readily available too.
Heh, funny you say that, because I couldn't find any Radeon 7000 anymore in here. I did find a Radeon VE/7000 once but it got killed by a BIOS flash (it did initiate me into FX5200/5500 BIOS flashing though - I still remember buying a Palit FX5200 128MB card only to have it flashed with a Winfast A340 BIOS.)

However, most of the GPUs I've found vary somewhere between MX440 and FX5200, and rarely a Radeon 9550/9600 ever pops up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
NFS Underground (and possibly Undeground 2) is DirectX 8.1 -based, but is backwards-compatible with DirectX 8.0 and 7 as well.

Depending on what your video card is capable of, some graphics features may or may not work (I think "Crowds" is one of those graphics options that strictly requires a DX 8.1 video card.)

That said, I've ran Underground on a Radeon 7000, 7200, and a 9200. Between all of these, clearly the Radeon 7000 is the slowest and can barely keep up with the game (not to mention the game renders in DX 7, so you only get basic car geometry and no transperant windows or any special effects like that). The Radeon 7200 looks similar, but runs the game faster. And the Radeon 9200 can run the game with all options enabled, but being a low-end video card, it runs on par (in terms of FPS) with the 7200.

On the nVidia side of things, the GeForce FX5200 has very similar performance to the Radeon 9200, but only supports DX 8.0 (despite the card being marketed as capable of DX9). Thus, some graphics features don't work on the FX5200, IIRC. Since the FX5200 is based on the same core as the MX400/420/440/460 and MX4000, you can expect similar performance. Actually the MX400 and 4000 lines are DX7 -based, so expect similar performance to the Radeon 7200 - i.e. not very good.
I do have a Sapphire Radeon 9250 128MB found in that box. I might build a test rig with that card just to see if it can run NFS U1 and 2.

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
I have a Riva TNT like that. The gold PCB looks very cool indeed. But not much of a card other that that. Probably only good for a Windows 95 PC with a Pentium CPU.
Mine seems to be a MX440 AGP8x that has the gold PCB. The MX400 is purple though.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:45 PM   #2607
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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I imagine this is much better build than many of the modern $50 black "gamer" cases.
There's no comparison. I have a couple of those 'gamer cases' around. Their quality makes Deer cases look high-end. This case isn't even on the same playing field with any of those. Much higher quality.....but beige....the gamer dorks don't want that!! ...but I'll take 'em! They're 'new old stock', they're dated 2001.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:14 PM   #2608
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

the plastic rails and line of spare screws reminds me of something - compaq??
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:28 PM   #2609
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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the plastic rails and line of spare screws reminds me of something - compaq??
If they were blue, I'd say IBM...
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:54 AM   #2610
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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If they were blue, I'd say IBM...
Being green I think it points to Dell, but I'm not really sure.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:13 AM   #2611
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Since I can't edit the old post:

Bought a Epox EP-8RGM3I - nForce IGP. Came with an Athlon XP 2000+ that I replaced with a 2500+.

Interesting things I've noticed on it:

1. Two integrated VGA ports
2. Hardware monitor during POST
3. IGP has own VGA BIOS that shows up before POST.

Will recap it soon, as VRM high uses KZG and VRM low uses OST, along with most of the board. (except three Teapos scattered around the board - two for USB ports and one near the ATX and 12v P4 (yes, it has a 4-pin 12v plug) ports.

Paired with the golden-PCB MX440 I mentioned earlier (which I have to recap too - 5 Micon 1000uF 10v caps) it should make a nice Windows ME machine. ( I did work with ME and I personally found it as stable as 98SE was, although I didn't like the absence of real-mode DOS.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:43 AM   #2612
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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You'd probably get all kinds of "cool" dancing squares
For me, my Radeon 9000 Pro did that as a warning sign in 3D Mark 2001 SE to back the fuck off on the GPU frequency!
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:46 AM   #2613
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Forget about any games - that will only make you RAGE (and likely rage-quit ).
ROF LOL
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:58 AM   #2614
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

... and another dozen 450G 15K SAS drives -- plus the 4 I overlooked last week. (wiping/testing/exercising a dozen a week seems to be a reasonable compromise in terms of time required as the box I'm using can only net ~100MB/s to the drive)

I'm going to dread shuffling the data around to get things where I want them.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:01 PM   #2615
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Ebay score of a new in box Chenbro beige ATX case for $49 shipped. They have a bunch of them, but I only bought one just to see what the quality was like. On a scale of 10, its an 8. Excellent build quality, no sharp edges, not paper-thin steel....but it could have been a little thicker. Came with the topmotor 120mm fan and a 90mm in the front. Roomy case, and cheap. I'll probably grab a few more for future retro builds.
Be careful of the unique disk rails and the "pegs" that hold the expansion cards in place. Neither is easy to replace if lost/broken!

(I discarded almost the same exact case a few weeks back when I broke one of those little pegs that would have held the video card in place -- too much of a hassle to kluge a replacement)
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:46 PM   #2616
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Be careful of the unique disk rails and the "pegs" that hold the expansion cards in place. Neither is easy to replace if lost/broken!

(I discarded almost the same exact case a few weeks back when I broke one of those little pegs that would have held the video card in place -- too much of a hassle to kluge a replacement)
I didn't like that either. there are threads in the holes, so if broken, you can simply put a coarse screw in it.
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:32 PM   #2617
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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I didn't like that either. there are threads in the holes, so if broken, you can simply put a coarse screw in it.
But you've got to get all the green plastic out of the way. Mine was one big piece of plastic (not a piece per slot).

I much prefer the little flip down locks that Dell (?) uses -- though they are also subject to breakage (so I routinely salvage any from scrapped cases)
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:47 PM   #2618
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But you've got to get all the green plastic out of the way.
3 screws and its gone. If it were removed, it would pose no issues....no openings, no loose cards, no problems.
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:56 PM   #2619
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

That would be a good SM X_DAL workstation case. Toss in 4 Velociraptors with a good GPU and you have a killer sleeper rig.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:06 PM   #2620
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That would be a good SM X_DAL workstation case. Toss in 4 Velociraptors with a good GPU and you have a killer sleeper rig.
Funny you mention that...the SM tree dropped 2 more x7dal's on me yesterday. I've got 4 of them now, I'm running out of systems to build out of them.
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