Big Heatsinks

[weirdlookinguy]

I'm doing research for a pc build I will be doing this summer, and one of the first things I am thinking of is cooling. I don't need it to be silent, I just need it to be very quiet and at the same time be decently cooled. The machine will run a Core 2 Duo.

Anyway, I will be using an Antec Solo case. In the case, I will put two 92mm Noctua fans at the front running at 7v. They'll draw in cold air and run it across the two HDD's. The exhaust will be a 120mm Noctua, running full speed, blowing out the back of the case. The PSU will be the AcBel unit, it has a Nidec fan in it so no need to replace it. Hopefully it will be quiet enough.

The heatsink is what I started thinking about today. I was at the 'egg looking at the heatsinks and the best ones are these huge ones with heat pipes and tons of fins. They look pretty heavy, which leads into my question: wouldn't one of these huge heatsinks start to bend the mobo after a year or two?

I ask because this system needs to last me a good six years. My current PC is a P4 2.53 HP from late 2002/early 2003, and incredibly I still get decent performance out of it, so on this new system build I want to use quality parts and one of the beefier C2D's so it'll last me a good 5 years or so. I'm also going with DDR3 RAM.

Anyway, I kinda got off topic but I want to know if you guys have seen these huge heatsinks warp boards, and your thoughts on my plans for the cooling. Since I have a couple months before I do the build, I have a lot of time to think this through and I want to get it right.

[starfury1]

Re: Big Heatsinks

me no idea but its an interesting question.

I've seen those larger tower type coolers and yeah maybe its a question for a Over clocker
(but then again their rigs are probably never static if you get what I mean)

like these here

I don't know what the mounting arrangements is with them but I see your point
(like if there is any extra, I think it does depend on the heat sink type some do from memory add additional support)

I think that give the time period they may better be positioned in the vertical direction so you have even force of gravity pushing (pulling) down
So the stress is more evenly distributed.

I have noticed with my Asus MB its a lot more flexible then the old Gigabyte.
still I am not so sure I'd want one of them hanging Horizontal off a vertical mounted MB.

But you would probably get better air flow through the fins mounted this way

I suppose it may depend on how much real weight is in them remembering its area your after for heat dissipation.
(neglecting the actual cpu block part of the heat sink)

Anyway like I said an interesting question.

Whats the stress going to do over a long period of time?

Cheers

[shadow]

Re: Big Heatsinks

I would say to do a fair bit of research rather than getting a huge CPU cooler.

I have read reviews backed up with tests that many of those huge coolers are simply not efficient and they had smaller coolers out-perform coolers that were massive.

I guess what I am trying to say is that size does not mean efficient. A big cooler may not necessarily cool as well as a smaller one with a better design.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Big Heatsinks

Most of those fancy coolers are just bells and whistles.

~HYPE~

They have people convinced faster CPU means hotter CPU.
That's bogus:
Here's why:

Core 2 Duo's:
E8500 - 65 watts
E8400 - 65 watts
E6850 - 65 watts
E6700 - 65 watts

P4 Northwood 2.53 GHz/533 - 61.5 watts
P4 Northwood 2.66 GHz/533 - 66.1 watts
P4 Prescott 2.80A GHz/533 - 89 watts

C whut e'h mean?
Theres NOT more heat in C2D than there was in the older P4's...

With adequate airflow through the case the stock Intel solution works just fine.
Add some Artic 5 and,,, don't worry, be happy.

.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Big Heatsinks

I am using an AC Freezer in my rig, no problem with bending or similar. Most of the heat pipe coolers are not that heavy, only huge.
But if your not on the extreme silent front nor doing OC, then i think a smaller AC Freezer or Skyte Kana should be sufficient and should never hurt.

[acstech]

Re: Big Heatsinks

I like the Scythe Mine myself. Cools very well, doesn't weigh that much, and is very quiet. I use 'em on many customer builds.

Something else you need to think about is dust. A smaller heatsink with a smaller fan is going to lose functionality due to dust buildup a lot sooner than a large one with a large fan. Chipset fans are notorious for this. The Scythe Mine seems to tolerate dust well, but still needs to be blown out every so often, depending on the particle shape and size.

You might notice a *slight* increase in processor temperature with increased clock speed. However, this is not enough for Intel to bother changing their TDP ratings. It has been speculated that Intel measures the TDP for their fastest processor in the line, then derates the lower end ones to match.

When you start overclocking and increasing voltage, then you do get a significant increase in heat. I've overclocked many computers, and I can say that increasing only the clock speed you might see a 1C rise in temperature. However, start increasing the voltage, and then the heat goes up fast. At that point you better keep it cooled off or you could end up with a dead processor, or at the very least an unstable one.

I had a Scythe Ninja on my last PC for over 3 years, with no board warpage or anything like that. That was with two of these fans, one exhausting air out the case, and one pushing air into the heatsink: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835104015 Those actually do work quite well despite the stupid newegg reviewers.

Now granted my PC sounded like a jet engine, but it kept the Opteron 185 @ 3125MHz, 1.4v well cooled. Also note that the 185 was only for the last year; before that it was a single core 3700+.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Big Heatsinks

Hmm.... so you're saying with the two intakes at the front and the large exhaust on the back, the stock intel sink should be fine?

I'm not really on the quiet PC front, but I do need it to be pretty quiet. I don't need silence but it can't be too loud either, it's going to be running overnight in the same room I sleep in.

[zandrax]

Re: Big Heatsinks

Hmm.... so you're saying with the two intakes at the front and the large exhaust on the back, the stock intel sink should be fine?

Two rules of thumb about cooling:
- exaust air flow should be equal or slightly greather than intake one: air should follow an ideal tunnel from intake to exaust, cooling components in the meanwhile. Exaust pressure much greater than intake's one leads to air depression inside the case: air can get into the case from the psu, cooling nothing and overheating everthing; exaust flow much less than intake, on the contrary, destroys any air tunnel and rise temps;
- fan's noise is mostly due to blades form: the small motor simply buzz, while blades whine at a greater noise level. Usually effective fans have noisy blades while silent products have flat or less effective ones.

The Intel stock is fine regarding temps, but its fan tend to catch dust and get noisy over time: if you can buy a better product, you can obtain a more contant noise in future.

I'm not really on the quiet PC front, but I do need it to be pretty quiet. I don't need silence but it can't be too loud either, it's going to be running overnight in the same room I sleep in.

If you ask for some information, then give infos too.
What are your needs: do you want to play games, run it 24/7 as a server or simply some basic tasks (browsing, writing and so on)?
Getting high performance and low noise is difficult, sometimes expensive: how much you can afford to spend?

Zandrax

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Big Heatsinks

Mainly browsing, doing some video encoding occasionally, and torrenting overnight. I don't care that it runs very cool, as long as it's not too hot in there and it's not too loud.

Also the two intakes as the front will be running at half speed, and the exhaust at the back will be running full blast.

By quiet, I mean that you might hear it humming quietly while you work/at night. I just don't want it to sound like a jet taking off like some PC's do.

[starfury1]

Re: Big Heatsinks

Then me personally wouldn't bother with looking for the greatest god ever shot gas up heat sink

Most of those fancy coolers are just bells and whistles.

Me yeah I sort of feel the same about those big ones...more wank then work but I never really played with them to know first hand

I use the stock on a Core2D 6750

Yeah they do get clogged with dust crap, so you should pop the bonnet every so often
If the case doesn't have air filters
Id possibly look at getting something in place to do the job
(less crap that gets suck in the better and it sounds like it might be doing a few hours at a stretch)

I dont OC

The temp meter SW thing I have I don't think reads accurately, telling me 30C but I think you got to add 10 or 15C or something like that.
(it does get hot here and today is heading to 30C , 27C at the moment...no air con were this box lives)


I suppose as has been pointed out here many times its really a matter of getting good flow through the box so you might do better to look at the intake and exhaust fan situation and seeing if you can quited them down.

possibly the resonances from the box its self
(and as above hdd cases)

Since your not ocing I suppose there might be a quieter cooler that does the job well
(without the flashing lights etc) and runs quite.
(and lasts a long time )

Anyway my reply was more to the question, not weather or how well they work
But this maybe be just another nail in the coffin of why NOT to use them.

Just my thoughts

Cheers

Oh yeah and as bonze said temp and faster doesn't automatically mean hotter
due to construction of CPU, so look at what the CPU needs too

[acstech]

Re: Big Heatsinks

The big heatsinks are usually very effective at lowering processor temperature beyond what the stock cooler would do. However, on a stock non-overclocked processor, this may not be a concern.

If you keep the case dusted out then the stock unit will work fine. I'd rather spend the $35 as cheap insurance though.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Big Heatsinks

People forget that the cooling fans used in computers are centrifugal pumps and not positive displacement. When you use pushers and pullers together the CFM ratings don't mean much. (As in are not additive functions.) Air slips past fan blades...
-
Is everyone confused yet? - I'll keep trying.
-

If you have a big-ass fan sucking on a box and a little teeny one blowing into the box, then the teeny one ain't doing squat except being spun up by the big sucker.

[Well that was fun...]

Same goes the other way.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Big Heatsinks

If you want to keep the system clean inside then use a large filtered supply fan and a positive ventilation plan rather that the traditional negative ventilation routine.
-

Don't suck,,,, blow..

[Traditional way]
Negative Ventilation = slight vacuum in the case.
-- Dirty outside air inside air leaks IN through cracks, optical/floppy drives, and card readers.

[Better way]
Positive Ventilation = slightly pressurized case.
-- Clean (filtered) inside air leaks OUT through cracks, optical/floppy drives, and card readers. - No crud pulling in through cracks, seems, or crapping up inside the drives.

.

[acstech]

Re: Big Heatsinks

Problem is that most cases don't have filters, and the intake fans are usually down at the bottom, floor level, ready to suck in dust off the floor.

Your way would work if the case were up off the floor though.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Big Heatsinks

You can build a filter,,, err,,, most people can.
A fan grill, two longer screws, piece of filter paper....
Wouldn't be too much more to get fancy, make it slide out, use a washable filter eliment.


You know those holes in the back?
.... Turn fan around..... ~TA DA~ . -Intake-
Just make sure it blow in harder than the PSU fan blows out.
Another fan in the lower front area doesn't hurt.

I never put them on the floor so that problem didn't occur to me.

.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Big Heatsinks

The case I'm planning to use, an Antec Solo, fits two fans at the front and they are filtered. Here's the current plan, tell me what you guys think:

Two Noctua 80mm's, both running at half speed with an adapter that comes with the fan (an extension cable w/ a resistor soldered in) will be at the front, filtered, drawing cold air across the HDD's and into the case. A 120mm Noctua running at full speed will pull air out the back. So the airflow is pretty much across the HDD's, through the case, and out the back. It should pick up hot air from around the heatsink and any warm air being blown in by the PSU and blow it all out the back.

ATM I'm choosing Noctua fans because I like the color, they seem to be of extremely good quality, they have a > 150,000 hour MTBF, and they are known for being inaudible when running with the half-speed adapter and damn near silent when running at full speed. They are pretty pricey (the 120mm runs almost $20) but worth it in the long run IMO.

The PSU is the AcBel 550W unit that is currently being debated in the announcements section of the forum, it has a Nidec fan so that should be pretty quiet.

The stock Core 2 Duo heatsink comes with a Nidec fan. That should be pretty quiet as well.

The Antec Solo is a thick, heavy, 22lb case with foam padding on the sides to decrease sound.

I'm pretty sure this build will be near silent, I just want your guys's opinion is all. How does the current plan look, should it keep things sufficiently cool?

[starfury1]

Re: Big Heatsinks

Got a feeling the post above are a little out of sequence , possibly posting at the same time.
looks like bonze dropped one in in the mean time too.

Humm well the positive pressure would work regardless of location.

It the clean room idea,
were you make the room pressure a little greater then the outside pressure
You do this filtering the air before pushing (blowing) it into the room.

Therefore the case would be leaking filtered air back out to the environment like a clean room

Problem is that most cases don't have filters, and the intake fans are usually down at the bottom, floor level, ready to suck in dust off the floor.

This is precisely the problem with cases, and if as bonze said if you got a negative pressure from the ventilation....the case leaks are going to let the dust in even more thought you might have filters in place.

I have an old case down the back that does have a filter at least on the front (bottom) and you should see the dust it collects.....still from all the leaks it still gets in there but its better then nothing.
I gave it a clean out yesterday and was a little surprised at how little did come out of the case...I was expecting more..the filter was clogged up with it though.
So they maybe of limited use but better then nothing.

A positive pressure case makes sense to me.
but it must do this with enough airflow to get rid of the heat

still were a bit of the topic for this thread,
(so what else is new they say )
so anybody got input on the original question?

Cheers All

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Big Heatsinks

So PCBONEZ, having more exhaust than intake creates negative pressure, right? What do you think of the current plan, two intakes in the front and exhaust in the back?

EDIT: yup, we're all posting at the same time. I actually don't mind if this thread goes off-topic, so long as it's ok with the mods. You guys obviously know a lot more about cooling than I do, so I'd love to know what you think.

[starfury1]

Re: Big Heatsinks

is it this puppy here?

http://www.cluboverclocker.com/revie...SOLO/index.htm

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Big Heatsinks

It's air pressure just like with a tank. (Only at a smaller pressure difference.)
Positive means the tank (case) is pressurized.
Negative means it is at a vacuum.