need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

[shovenose]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

except that the caps right next to the cpu socket are in the hottest area

[PCBONEZ]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

except that the caps right next to the cpu socket are in the hottest area

The caps right next to the CPU are the Vcore caps.
.

[netimports]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

so to recap, I got 5 6.3v's by the CPU. Fair to say I'm going to replace those with the 330uF polys? and the other 4 6.3v's (2 by the pci-e and two by the ram) just replace them with elec 6.3 1800uF? Pcbonez i got 3 16v 1800uF's on the board in total, and replace those with 470uF polys. Good enough?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

No, you are getting lost.........

The mention of 330uF was for the 16v caps ONLY.
Those are [electrically] between the VRM and the PSU.

Assuming a Poly upgrade:
- For the 16v caps, if you only have three then use:
3x 470uF
-or-
2x [330 or 470] uF poly cap plus one [1200 or 1500]uF Lytic in the middle.

~~~~
Vcore caps are [electrically] between the VRM and the CPU and usually [not always] are right next to the CPU.
These are the 5x 6.3v you mention and 5x sounds kind of 'light' so check with a DMM and see if any nearby 6.3v are in parallel.
If you find some in parallel then those are also Vcore caps.

If you put a cap on a circuit voltage that is greater than the cap's rating you will kill the cap and possibly the mobo.
The -actual- circuit voltage on Vcore caps is the Vcore voltage of the CPU.
For about the last 10 years this has been less than 2.0v for all CPU's which is why you can get away with using 2.5v or 4.0v caps in Vcore.

Even with Poly you want your total uF in Vcore up around 5000uF and PREFERABLY a bit more than that.
[That is -my- thumb rule for Vcore Poly. Others might not agree.]
If you truly only have 5x Vcore caps I would look for some 1000uF or 1200uF Poly.
If you have 7x or more then 820uF is fine.
If you have 10x or more then 560uF is fine.

You need some more experience before you go doing Poly upgrades outside the VRM.
I recommend that you do NOT Poly any caps outside of the VRM.
This is because out of the VRM every single cap might be a different situation and you have to verify a poly is okay with it powered up using a voltmeter cap by cap for the whole rest of the board. - Also out there you can't reduce uF and -be sure- lowering the uF won't have ill effects. [In other words the rules for reducing uF in the VRM do NOT apply to other caps on the board.]
- Beside which you board will do fine with some good quality lytic Jap caps.
.

Pictures would be nice. I like looking at naughty motherboards...
.

[c_hegge]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

Here ya go. There are 7 caps on the CPU VRM out, so 820uF polys should be fine. This was my board after a poly-mod on the VRM out. It worked perfectly and still does to this day.

[netimports]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

alright then, I'll just stick to the regular electro 6.3v 1800's and the 16v 1800's for now since this will be my first recap and use the ones that c_hegge suggested in the previous page. Once I get comfortable with those, then maybe I'll try the poly's on the fourth board. Also how long should I stress test the board to make sure everything is fine?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

A stress test isn't required other than to satisfy your own curiosity or for peace of mind.

That said, if the 'new' caps are 'old stock' the oxide layer on the Aluminum may have thinned some by chemical reaction with [dissolving back into] the electrolyte.
Simply applying a DC voltage builds the layer back up.
[It basically electroplates the oxide back to where it goes.]

If you used NOS caps you should do one of the following before any stress tests.

There is a procedure called 'reforming' to rebuild the oxide layer but the following 'Sleazy Reforming Procedure' works just as well.
[Except maybe on REAL OLD caps like 8+ years old.]

-Sleazy Reforming Procedure-
Simply boot to the BIOS screen and let it sit doing nothing for about 20 minutes + 1 min/month of age over 2 years.
[Up to 60 minutes. It starts fast and slows down so after ~60 minutes there won't be much improvement anyway.]
As so:
2 yr -> 20 min
3 yr -> 20 min +12 min [~35 min]
4 yr -> 20 min + 24 min [~45 min]
5 yr -> 20 min + 36 min [~60 min]
- We aren't talking like you need a stop watch or anything and leaving them longer won't hurt anything.

-Actual Reforming Procedure- [Roughly]
The actual reforming procedure does basically the same thing as above but you need an adjustable power supply and a small current limiting resistor in series with the caps to do it.
- There are as many different reforming procedures as there are cap companies.
- This is the basic idea and will work.
Start the caps at like 2vdc [across just them] and raise the voltage 1 or 2 volts every 2 or 3 minutes until you get to the rated voltage.
Once at the rated voltage let it sit for 1 min/month of age over 2 years old.

As I said, just letting it sit powered up at the BIOS screen [so there is no stress on the system but voltage is applied] works fine except maybe for REAL old caps.
[The 'actual' circuit voltage will be less than voltage 'rating' of the cap but, in use, the thickness of the oxide layer 'adjusts' [thins or thickens] itself based on the applied voltage anyway so that doesn't hurt anything at all.]
.

[netimports]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

thanks pcbonez for the info, I'm going to order the caps today and will update once its done. Do different brands (not polys) have different lifespans or are they pretty much all the same (other then the cheap/fakes)? or does it reflect on the position of the caps?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

The 'Lifetime' given in data sheets doesn't -directly- relate to how long caps last in an application.
It is basically how long they can be stressed [maxed out for -everything-] and NOT break.

On a practical level good brand caps last longer than the useful life of a motherboard [assuming a properly cooled system that is] anyway so it's not something to focus on.
Intel defines 'useful life' of a mobo as 7 years but good caps last longer.

Always use 105C temp rated caps though.
85C caps don't always make it to 7 years.
Cap life doubles [or halves] for every 10 degree change in operating temp.
Because of that a 105C cap rated for 2000hr actually has 4x more expected life than a 85C cap rated for 2000hr if they are both used in the same operating environment/conditions.
.

.

[netimports]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

good to know pcbonez, you guys have been awesome, so much learned in these past few days!

[bruferrit]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

I also have this Mother board and a power supply for a Princeton vl1919 and want to order all the caps from here or digikey. I have model numbers for panasinic FM caps for the power supply of the princeton. any help, please.

[swagman_1]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

while unsoldering bad caps near cpu i broke one of those Lf 820 e 791 metal marked caps. i can see its probably a 820 uf but dont know the voltage will a 6.3 v do??? i have a few of those in stock but they are not poly! Can i use those??? I'm pretty green in this field as u can see. thanks in advance.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

That's Nichicon LF series.
The 'e' is a voltage code, it's 2.5 volts.
.

[swagman_1]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

thanks PCBONEZ !! i will try to get some poly 2.5v meanwhile i'll try one of these 6.3 v.. Thanks a bunch.

[bruferrit]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

I also have this Mother board and a power supply for a Princeton vl1919 and want to order all the caps from here or digikey. I have model numbers for panasinic FM caps for the power supply of the princeton. any help, please.

I would like to know what Panasonic caps would be used on the motherboard?

[bruferrit]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

OK, again thanks PCBonez,

Here is a picture of the motherboard with the caps circled that are bulging at the top.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

Okay, I marked it up further in aid of communication.

I looked at some of these boards on-line and you'll probably need to do a lot of caps.

Please give me the brand name and series of each cap [or group] I have numbered.
[In groups tell me all of them if they are not the same.]
Once I know that I'll get more specific.
- Hopefully some are good brands and can be skipped.

In the VRM-Vcore you have mixed lytics and polys.
What are the numbers on the existing polys?
I'm going to recommend you change all the lytics to polys but I need to know what is already there to make sure you get enough total uF and low enough ESR in there.

With a DMM check to see if and of #1, #2, and #3 are in parallel with the Vcore caps.
[Only need to check against one Vcore cap because the Vcore caps ARE in parallel.]
If they are in parallel...
The + to + sides of the caps will have zero resistance.
-and-
The - to - sides of the caps will have zero resistance.
---
None of #1 'probably' are but #2 or #3 very well might be.


If you need help with cap ID then tell me as much as you can about the markings..
.

[bruferrit]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

Again thank you PCBonez

Ok in groups

Group:
VRM-High: TK 16v 1800uf (qty: 3) 10mm x 25mm

VRM-Vcore: TK 6.3v 1800uf (Qty: 4) 8mm x 20mm

1: G-luxon 16v 470uf (Qty:1)
OST 6.3V 1000uf (Qty: 2)
2: G-luxon 16v 470uf (Qty:1)

3: TK 6.3v 1800uf (Qty: 1) 8mm x 20mm

4: TK 6.3v 1800uf (Qty: 2) 8mm x 20mm
G-luxon 16v 470uf (Qty:1)
OST 6.3V 1000uf (Qty: 1)

5: TK 6.3v 1800uf (Qty: 2) 8mm x 20mm

6: G-luxon 16v 470uf (Qty:1)
OST 6.3V 1000uf (Qty: 1)

7: OST 6.3V 1000uf (Qty: 1)

8: OST 6.3V 1000uf (Qty: 1)

9: G-luxon 16v 470uf (Qty:1)
OST 6.3V 1000uf (Qty: 2)

The Poly's next to the Vrm-Vcore are labeled
from top to bottom
LF
820
e
793

[bruferrit]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

Also on my board the area you circled in the #4 group right above #5 group there is a cap that I included in the #4 Group.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: need a lil advice on recapping ECS HP MCP61PM-HM

OH MY,,, you have a Full House! - All of those should go.
[You may now invent a new 4 letter word.]

From looking at photos of other boards with these brands I'm assuming:
- All the OST are the RLS series.
- All the 6.3v TK are the ATWB series.
If that is wrong then tell me.

Need to know:
-
Do you want to upgrade the VRM to poly and if so just Vcore or the whole thing?
-
Is there a series name on the G-luxon? - It's usually a 2 letter code but they don't always mark it.
Are the G-luxon all the same physical size and what size(s) are they.
-
Are the OST all the same physical size and what size(s) are they.
-
I need to know if #3 is in parallel with the Vcore caps.
[Which would make it a Vcore cap and replacement options are different.]
Sometimes they add some random Vcore caps around the CPU to keep the Vcore voltage 'flat' across the socket.

I asked about sizes because those series both have more than one can size in those volt/uF combinations.

...

The Poly's in Vcore are Nichicon LF series 820uF 2.5v
The 'e' is the voltage code. The other number is a batch or date code.
- You can replace the TK in Vcore with 820uF polys [2.5v or higher] which will be enough total uF [with 7x 820uF] and will lower ESR a bit more.
The actual Vcore voltage is under 2.0v so 2.5v caps are fine.
Can't do that with the non-Vcore TK because they will be on too high a voltage.
[That's why I asked you to check if #3 is in Vcore.]

...

Digikey won't have all the caps you need.
Best places to order this assortment are badcaps.net or mouser.com.

...
Will check back in the morning and then again later on.
If you've answered I should be able to give specific replacement options then.
.