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    Marketing refurbished machines

    A non-profit with which I'm affiliated typically sells pallets (50-100 machines) of machines in single lots. This helps get rid of lots of machines with very few transactions!

    Unfortunately, there is a limit to the number of folks willing to shell out a couple of grand at a time for a "lot".

    So, they are looking into selling individual machines on-line (CL, eBay, etc.).

    As this increases the effort required "per machine", I'm looking for ways to trim that effort back to as little as possible.

    I see a machine as existing in several different states:
    • "as is, where is"
    • stripped of memory/disk
    • memory but no disk
    • disk but no OS (CoA iff it's affixed to the case)
    • fully functional (with "whatever" OS/drives is appropriate)

    We can't strictly sell "as is" because we have to sanitize the disk(s) and remove other identifying (previous owner) information from the machine. But, we can opt to pull drives as a quick expedient to safeguarding that data. Note this leaves the machine in the "memory but no disk" state -- except, there are no guarantees that it even powers up (though we won't sell it if parts are obviously missing).

    [Anything above "as is, where is" has undergone some sort of testing so you aren't stuck with a DoA -- or even a machine with a noisey fan!]

    "Fully functional" requires a fair bit of effort. So, we'd like to avoid that as we don't have the labor required to do this in the quantities involved (hundreds per week).

    I'd like to come up with some ball-park figures indicating the RELATIVE "worth" of a machine in each of these states. E.g., if "as is, where is" is worth $X (to our customers), how much is adding a wiped, but refurbished (unknown age) disk? Installing an OS? Shipping charges? (current local buyers don't have to pay for shipping so they see that as a savings!)

    I can't imagine wanting to buy a machine with software preinstalled as you've no idea what else might accompany that software! (or, if it is pirated, etc.). But, casually browsing eBay I see a variety of different offerings for nearly the same machine(s) -- with/without software, disk, etc.

    #2
    Re: Marketing refurbished machines

    I'd prefer parting them out. Repair what can be repaired, and sell the pieces 'as is', and be done. When you sell complete systems, the buyers also think that they've bought YOU with it, and expect lifetime support....constantly with the threat of negative feedback (ebay). I used to do this way back in the day, it was a huge headache. When you sell pieces, you'll get more money in the end....but getting them 'ready for resale' takes a little more time.....but as a rule, the buyers are tech fluent, and don't constantly badger you for support.... If your time is (or if you think your time is) *really* this valuable, then you shouldn't be doing any of this... I have zero desire to sell complete systems anymore....save for one of my kooky retro ones....and those are clearly sold 'as is', but if the buyer has a question or two, for the crazy price they just paid for one of my creations, I'd be ok fielding a few questions if needed.....but nobody will shell out that kind of dough for a 'modern' system.
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      #3
      Re: Marketing refurbished machines

      without the drive, or with a clean drive.
      maybe throw some linux dvd's in.

      if you sell incomplete it will put people off,
      if you install anything your going to get people pestering you for support regardless of anything you say to them.
      sell them complete - tested, but clean.
      no Lin,Win or anything else on them - if you want them to boot - install freedos.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Marketing refurbished machines

        Originally posted by Topcat View Post
        I'd prefer parting them out. Repair what can be repaired, and sell the pieces 'as is', and be done.
        Yes, but what's of value? These are typically machines from 18-36 month "upgrade" cycles... nothing fancy (anything fancy comes in much smaller numbers).

        When a machine is "scrapped", we tear it down to recyclable components:
        • memory
        • disk
        • case (less any plastic parts)
        • power supply
        • heatsinks
        • cpu (chip)
        • "wire"


        None of these are sold as working components but, rather, for recycle value. (e.g., 486 CPUs get sold for their gold content, cases are just scrap metal, etc.). The individual recyclers downstream MAY elect to test these components and resell/refurbish but we tend not to bother (too many).

        Leaving them intact and trying to refurbish has the possibility of reducing labor and increasing perceived value -- assuming folks WANT "intact computers" and not just "components".

        When you sell complete systems, the buyers also think that they've bought YOU with it, and expect lifetime support....constantly with the threat of negative feedback (ebay).
        We've addressed this in our "local" sales by simply stating there is no warranty other than DoA -- and, we can demonstrate it WORKING before it leaves the shop! (so, if it doesn't work when you get home, too bad, so sad!).

        Previously, there were attempts to support machines after the sale. But, that turned into labor intensive attempts to clean off malware. I've now built a custom "factory restore" capability and our "service" is limited to pushing the button that wipes the disk and reinstalls the original software image ("Just like we told you in the paperwork that accompanied the sale -- YOU could have done this at home! No, we're not going to save your files; hire a company to do that data recovery if they are valuable to you!!")

        But, there's no threat of "negative feedback" for local sales -- unless you tell your friends not to buy from us (find someone who will charge you 50-100% more for the same machine and buy from THEM, PLEASE!! :> )

        I used to do this way back in the day, it was a huge headache. When you sell pieces, you'll get more money in the end....but getting them 'ready for resale' takes a little more time.....but as a rule, the buyers are tech fluent, and don't constantly badger you for support....
        That's the essence of my question: what's the mentality/expectation of the folks who go looking for a "deal" on a computer "online"? Are they end users hoping to get a turnkey machine? Resellers looking for cheap "parts" (even if they take the form of complete systems) to resell? Tinkerers who want to have a second (third, fifth) machine on which they'll install <whatever>?

        If your time is (or if you think your time is) *really* this valuable, then you shouldn't be doing any of this... I have zero desire to sell complete systems anymore....save for one of my kooky retro ones....and those are clearly sold 'as is', but if the buyer has a question or two, for the crazy price they just paid for one of my creations, I'd be ok fielding a few questions if needed.....but nobody will shell out that kind of dough for a 'modern' system.
        I have mechanisms to mass produce laptops (we give them to "needy" kids). So, I can tweak that to mass produce SFF machines and other "business workstations". But, I'd prefer to do as little as possible -- certainly not more than folks are willing to pay for! (e.g., if you're buying a machine to install Linux, then having Windows preinstalled doesn't help you in any way! Or, if you've already got a spare disk lying around, then why would you want a machine with a "business workstation" sized drive?) I definitely don't want to get drawn into building "custom" machines -- too much individualized labor involved to make it worth the effort.

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          #5
          Re: Marketing refurbished machines

          Originally posted by stj View Post
          without the drive, or with a clean drive.
          maybe throw some linux dvd's in.
          But are folks looking for "cheap computers" to install Linux? Or, a second/spare Windows machine?

          if you sell incomplete it will put people off,
          I, for example, have no interest in the disk that might be in a machine I rescue. I'm going to wipe it or replace it and install what *I* want.

          if you install anything your going to get people pestering you for support regardless of anything you say to them.
          For local (non-bulk) sales, support is limited to "press this button to wipe the disk and reinstall the original disk image; be sure to save any files that you consider important before doing so!". If someone tries to return a machine for service, we remind them of this and will offer to push the button FOR them!

          sell them complete - tested, but clean.
          no Lin,Win or anything else on them - if you want them to boot - install freedos.
          If we want them to boot, we can just put a CD in the optical bay and let them watch it run diagnostics or whatever we happen to put on the CD. I'll make a self-test image that lets us prove (to ourselves) that all the ports on the machine work before we consider the machine saleable.

          What I'm trying to understand is what folks are looking for when they go out in search of a low-cost machine... how they intend to use it, etc.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Marketing refurbished machines

            I keep a moderate stock of usable machines for my customers. Had Mr. E, his wife has a windows xp machine built back in the early '00s (sempron 2800+ s754), beige case. He called saying it would not boot. Indeed he was correct...bad caps!

            I sold her a heavy Dell 775 P4 3.2 HT, double ram, one of three I got from an auto shop I upgraded them all to ivy bridge and skylake i3s with 256g 850/60 samsung pros.

            Winxp booted fine, installed drivers fine, activation went fine (all surprising really). MB has a number of polymers, lytics MOSTLY good brand. She only uses it for outlook express 6, ikr? She refuses to use anything else. Shes old, change something little and suddenly she doesn't know how to do anything, dispite conceptually everything is the same.

            Still, sold a box for $75 that I got for free.

            One of my other customers, mr. F, gave me his sons old box, dell, c2d based pentium. Gonna put a E6750 in it, 4gb of ram if anyone here has any (look in wtb forum), hes going to give me $ for a wd blue ssd, and I might make $70-80 profit. I sold him an old sony VIAO xp system I got for free years ago and it's catching up with him.
            Last edited by Uranium-235; 03-03-2019, 05:24 AM.
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              #7
              Re: Marketing refurbished machines

              Originally posted by Uranium-235 View Post
              I keep a moderate stock of usable machines for my customers. Had Mr. E, his wife has a windows xp machine built back in the early '00s (sempron 2800+ s754), beige case. He called saying it would not boot. Indeed he was correct...bad caps!
              Most of the machines we get (in quantity -- we don't want to deal with onesy-twosy's) are relatively new. It's rare for them to have problems -- or, to imagine them having significant problems in the next few years. I don't expect most folks to be able to keep their machines running due to poor discipline on their part (installing too much cruft, malware, etc.). So, I imagine any "problems" going forward will be resolved by a reinstall (restore).

              As the machines we get (again, in quantity) tend to be relatively bland ("current" when they were initially purchased a couple/few years ago), I see most folks looking at them as just for generic usage. Businesses seem to concentrate on servers and generic boxes (with some businesses having more specialized machines -- in much lower quantities)

              She only uses it for outlook express 6, ikr? She refuses to use anything else. Shes old, change something little and suddenly she doesn't know how to do anything, dispite conceptually everything is the same.
              I had to pull teeth to get my other half away from W2K... just a couple of years ago! OTOH, she had built some elaborate databases in Access 2K and had no desire to try to sort out how MS had "enhanced" (i.e., BROKEN) Access in the years hence.

              One of my other customers, mr. F, gave me his sons old box, dell, c2d based pentium. Gonna put a E6750 in it, 4gb of ram if anyone here has any (look in wtb forum), hes going to give me $ for a wd blue ssd, and I might make $70-80 profit. I sold him an old sony VIAO xp system I got for free years ago and it's catching up with him.
              We'd be concentrating on machines that we have many of -- so, the effort required to get the first one operational (OS, drivers, etc.) could be leveraged to quickly build the remaining "N" units (where N may be a hundred or more at any given time).

              We want to move away from having to do anything more than just collect money and hand product to customer. No custom builds, repairs, etc. When selling in lots, there's very little overhead per machine. We'd like to keep that overhead low (by leveraging "multiples") yet hopefully increase the revenue per machine (folks buying in bulk want/expect "deals")

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                #8
                Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                C.G.

                There is a local eBay seller in my area here who's been going at this same thing for more than 3-4 years now - he likely gets his used machines from big gvmnt contracts that are in the area and resells them on eBay. Mostly it's laptops, but also some workstations.

                From what I've seen, he seems to do a mix of all these options:
                - PC "as is, for parts or repair" (non-working item)
                - PC with RAM but stripped of HDD (& tested for "basic" functions only)
                - PC with RAM + HDD + CoA possibly, but NO OS (&PC tested for "basic" functions + all irregularities noted)

                It really comes down to how what the machines he gets are like. For the most part, he aims for the last two options above: i.e. PC with RAM but no disk or with RAM and disk. This is generally the easiest, as all he has to do is take out the HDD from each PC and wipe it. If the HDD wipes and passes, it goes back into that machine and machine is sold as working (which typically only means "tested to power on to BIOS" only - and this is clearly stated in product description.) If HDD fails to wipe, machine is sold without HDD. But again, even that machine cap be tested for "power/POST to BIOS" and be deemed as "good". Of course, if you wanted to go a bit further (which you might not, as that's extra work), then you could run a few passes of MEMTEST or some similar testing program for, say, 30 minutes on each machine to verify basic stability of the system.

                With that said, any PCs that don't power on/POST to BIOS can be stripped of HDD (and RAM if needed) to be put into other machines. And those non-working PCs can then either be sold "as-is, for parts or repair" condition or broken down for scrap value. The "pros" of selling "for parts or repair" is that you don't have to do much work on the machine other than removing the HDD. But the "con" is that these machines will typically move/sell a lot slower than "complete" (minus OS) PCs. Of course, if the price is right, they might sell. And if too many accumulate, then you can just break them down and scrap them when space becomes an issue.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                What I'm trying to understand is what folks are looking for when they go out in search of a low-cost machine... how they intend to use it, etc.
                It's hard to say exactly.
                Yes, sometimes it's thinkers like some of us here are. Other times, it could be some average Joe (with a bit of tech knowledge) who just wants to get a good deal on a working PC for personal use (and not necessarily to thinker with). And if the price is right / low enough, you might even get resellers as customers - the usual "buy for a $1, sell for $2".

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                "Fully functional" requires a fair bit of effort. So, we'd like to avoid that as we don't have the labor required to do this in the quantities involved (hundreds per week).
                Exactly!
                You don't want to put OS on there for the reasons people (and yourself) already mentioned above.

                Originally posted by stj
                without the drive, or with a clean drive.
                +10
                This gives the most "complete" system (minus an OS), yet the work involved is not much more than a "as is" PC with HDDs pulled. So I agree this is the target for most machines. If not possible (in the case of broken/nonworking PC), then part it out and sell "as is, for parts or repair" or strip down for scrap/parts yourself.

                Like I said, there's a local guy here who's been doing this for a few years selling on eBay, and he seems to be doing OK (most of his stuff seems to sell quickly, as he regularly has prices 10-25% lower than anywhere else on eBay.) And he's gotten good reviews/feedback while maintaining this. So I think it's possible.
                Last edited by momaka; 03-04-2019, 03:52 AM.

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                  #9
                  Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                  Originally posted by momaka View Post
                  From what I've seen, he seems to do a mix of all these options:
                  - PC "as is, for parts or repair" (non-working item)
                  I suspect that really limits the number of potential buyers -- and, what you can "get" for them (you're adding absolutely NO value).

                  OTOH, it's probably the least effort - similar to our selling lots as is, where is.

                  - PC with RAM but stripped of HDD (& tested for "basic" functions only)
                  I think this is what I would prefer as it lets us "cleanse" the disks in any way that is practical (including just shredding them!). I can modify the diagnostic software I'm using for the laptops to give them a rather thorough test (all "ports", CPU, memory, video). The memory test (single pass write random with delayed read-verify) would be the most time consuming (vary as a function of how much memory is installed). Problems would likely be pretty apparent (again, keeping in mind the machines' source is typically a "periodic upgrade cycle" and not a purge of defective kit)

                  - PC with RAM + HDD + CoA possibly, but NO OS (&PC tested for "basic" functions + all irregularities noted)
                  Adding the disk means it has to be sanitized. And, it opens the door to someone claiming it was defective on receipt (problems in shipping?). It also means another datum to track (S/N of disk shipped with machine to safeguard against folks swapping out drives and returning the whole machine -- probably more of an issue with local sales)

                  But, this still assumes folks are looking to buy machines and willing to install their own OS. For our local non-bulk sales, its usually folks who are looking for a "cheap computer" and who wouldn't be able to install an OS. So, there's value in the license and the installation know-how (which can justify a higher price point).

                  OTOH, it opens the door for them to return for "support" (if they couldn't afford a "new" retail computer, they probably can't afford service on that computer, either!)

                  [We have scant few staff to deal with "customers". We want to take their money and say "good-bye". No "salesmen", "technicians", etc. "This is what we have and the prices for them. There's a demo unit on display for you to play with..."]

                  But again, even that machine cap be tested for "power/POST to BIOS" and be deemed as "good". Of course, if you wanted to go a bit further (which you might not, as that's extra work), then you could run a few passes of MEMTEST or some similar testing program for, say, 30 minutes on each machine to verify basic stability of the system.
                  As mentioned above, I can give a decent test of the hardware without tying up a lot of "labor". For laptops, a "technician" verifies the screen works (no dead pixels) as I show fields of white/green/blue/red. Then, verifies the keyboard works by pressing each key -- in any order -- exactly once. Meanwhile, I look for as many thumb drives/media cards as I can find and give a quick peek at their contents ("This is drive #1", "This is drive #2", etc.) to verify USB ports and card readers. A free-standing monitor plugged into the VGA/DP/HDMI/etc. "video out" verifies the external video works. Writing a long, pseudo-random sequence into memory sizes the memory and allows a followup read pass to verify the contents of memory are as written. The internal drive (remember, it's a laptop) is wiped by the laptop itself. The fact that the diagnostic runs, at all, verifies the optical drive works.

                  We really DO want to make sure folks are getting a functional machine. This also cuts down on legitimate returns as WE have a higher degree of confidence in the machine that goes out the door!

                  With that said, any PCs that don't power on/POST to BIOS can be stripped of HDD (and RAM if needed) to be put into other machines. And those non-working PCs can then either be sold "as-is, for parts or repair" condition or broken down for scrap value.
                  We would just break them down -- assuming these are cookie-cutter machines (nothing fancy). Keep in mind that time spent dealing with a potential "return" or "unhappy customer" is effectively "lost production"; there's no one standing around just waiting to deal with "problems"!

                  [reason behind purchases]

                  It's hard to say exactly.
                  Yes, sometimes it's thinkers like some of us here are. Other times, it could be some average Joe (with a bit of tech knowledge) who just wants to get a good deal on a working PC for personal use (and not necessarily to thinker with). And if the price is right / low enough, you might even get resellers as customers - the usual "buy for a $1, sell for $2".
                  I think that market is more easily saturated. While eBay would allow us to access a bigger geographical market, there's still a limit on how many folks are willing to buy and resell machines as THEY end up exposed to the "service" issue. I think (for low end machines), they really just want to "flip" them. OTOH, installing an OS may be close to flipping for many folks! For high end machines, I imagine they (like us) are willing to invest more time in the preparation for the sale.

                  Like I said, there's a local guy here who's been doing this for a few years selling on eBay, and he seems to be doing OK (most of his stuff seems to sell quickly, as he regularly has prices 10-25% lower than anywhere else on eBay.) And he's gotten good reviews/feedback while maintaining this. So I think it's possible.
                  A potential downside with listing on eBay is that the "product" advertised has to remain available for the sale. E.g., if we have 100 of a particular machine and a pallet of nicer machines comes in, we have to find a place to store ALL of the machines until the first lot has sold (or, can you just decide to end a sale for any arbitrary reason?).

                  For local & bulk sales, we can decide to scrap machines from one minute to the next without anyone legitimately complaining that we didn't follow through on our "advertised sale".

                  <frown> Dealing with customers sucks!

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                    #10
                    Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                    Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                    <frown> Dealing with customers sucks!
                    Then you don't want to be in any kind of business.....like 'em or not, customers pay your bills.
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                      #11
                      Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                      Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                      Then you don't want to be in any kind of business.....like 'em or not, customers pay your bills.
                      Or, you want to be in a business where you can CHOOSE your customers!

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                        #12
                        Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                        Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                        Or, you want to be in a business where you can CHOOSE your customers!
                        Unless you're already retardedly rich going in, and the "business" is basically a tax shelter, few businesses have that luxury.
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                          #13
                          Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                          Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                          Unless you're already retardedly rich going in, and the "business" is basically a tax shelter, few businesses have that luxury.
                          You just have to have a "product" that folks can't get elsewhere, at a price point that doesn't force you to take every potential customer who comes along.

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                            #14
                            Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                            Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                            You just have to have a "product" that folks can't get elsewhere, at a price point that doesn't force you to take every potential customer who comes along.
                            ...and I say again....a business that can be that particular that they want to and/or can be 'selective' of their customers for the reasons of not wanting to deal with certain kinds.....well umm...see previous message....
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                              #15
                              Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                              Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                              ...and I say again....a business that can be that particular that they want to and/or can be 'selective' of their customers for the reasons of not wanting to deal with certain kinds.....well umm...see previous message....
                              You don't have to be "retardedly rich" or a "tax shelter". You just have to be able to live comfortably off of the work/sales that you elect to make.
                              "It's not what you MAKE, it's what you SPEND!"

                              NOT having kids gives you a huge leg up (as they represent demands and obligations -- time and money -- that you can't minimize). "Childcare" can eat up a considerable amount of an individual's income. Food, health care, clothing, "toys", education typically amount to ~$300K/child (to age 17).

                              [Early in my career, I recall a colleague getting all excited about the fact that he and his wife were (finally!) going to buy a microwave that evening. This puzzled me as I would buy those sorts of things spontaneously, whenever the need arose -- why does he have to plan/budget for it? Ans: he's got kids! "Oh..."]

                              And, if you don't buy into the "gotta-have-it" consumer mentality where you let vendors decide how to spend YOUR money (which translates into your TIME), then you'd be amazed at what you can "save" (a dollar not spent is $1.50 you don't have to earn!)

                              [Do you REALLY need yet another TV, just because this year's model is super-ultra-mega-high-def instead of just ultra-mega-high-def??]

                              If you look at what folks spend on "personal phones", CATV, high speed internet, car payments, car maintenance, fuel, travel, vacations, prepared meals, "toys", fashion (how much do your "sneakers" cost?), etc. you can see lots of places where they're being coerced to working more just to have those "essentials" (?)

                              We don't have CATV as there's nothing we want to set aside the TIME to watch, let alone the money to be able to watch it (yet, we watch 3-5 movies each week -- on DVD!). What's your cable bill? How much do you have to earn in order to be able to pay it, in after-tax dollars?? How much "work" does that translate into?

                              We have a single cell phone that costs $8/month -- that we only use if there is a genuine need ("I've got a flat tire; can you come out and fix it for me?"). Our land line goes unanswered -- we check messages once or twice a day and decide which calls we want to return. Email goes unanswered until its convenient for us to do so.

                              We buy vehicles with cash so no extra costs that we have to pay to a bank/financer. I do most of the routine maintenance on the house and car (instead of paying a dealer's grease monkey $90+/hour). We drive a combined 5,000 miles annually so cars last "forever" and fuel/maintenance costs are low. No credit card balances/finance charges to add to our purchasing costs.

                              We've done most/all of the traveling we wanted earlier in life (thankfully as its such a hassle, nowadays, to go anywhere!). Neither of us are willing to invest the time needed to "eat out" as we can prepare tastier meals at home for less money and in less time while we're engaged in other activities that aren't "portable" to a restaurant setting. And, we get to share the experience of doing it together -- instead of looking across a table at each other while waiting for someone else to prepare and serve the meal!

                              I have a closet full of three-piece suits that I loathe wearing. Instead, I have a collection of identical T-shirts that I alternate between -- so, my appearance never changes from day to day! Folks who encounter me regularly just shake their head and attribute it to my quirky nature (I carry a photo of my T-shirt collection for those folks who have decided that I never change clothes!)

                              We have most of the "toys" we could ever want. Indeed, we're more concerned about ridding ourselves of extra cruft that we really no longer need/want. But, making the time to sort through that stuff when there are so many more interesting uses for our time is a challenge!

                              The only real variable (risk) is health issues which, thankfully, we've managed to avoid (touch wood).

                              Not be obligated to service a particular customer/client goes a long way to improving my outlook and sense of well-being. ("Stress" is the manifestation of your lack of control over a situation)

                              [I had one (potential) client red-facedly exclaim, "Do you mean to say that if we don't do it YOUR way, you're not going to do it?" To which I replied, "Exactly!" I.e., find someone else who wants to do it your (WRONG) way... but, I am not interested -- no hard feelings!]

                              Increasingly, I do pro bono projects for folks who could never afford me as it gives me the ultimate in freedom -- defining the project, its goals, its solution, timetable, cost, etc. -- without any constraints imposed by a (paying!) client with his dubious set of ill-defined constraints. So, I get to experiment with technologies and techniques that a paying client would be reluctant to "gamble on".
                              Last edited by Curious.George; 03-08-2019, 01:56 PM.

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                                #16
                                Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                You don't have to be "retardedly rich" or a "tax shelter". You just have to be able to live comfortably off of the work/sales that you elect to make.
                                "It's not what you MAKE, it's what you SPEND!"
                                I guess you're not grasping this...... I'm glad that you're so well-off that you can be selective about who's money you'll take.....my one and only point was simply that the vast majority of businesses out there don't have that luxury. I've been self employed all my life, I know this to be a fact. It has nothing to do with kids, lifestyle, age, etc.....While spending is indeed a factor, its moot if there's nothing to spend.

                                I get it....with time and success, I too have over time began hand-picking some of the tasks that I will and won't do...and living comfy is definitely a prerequisite to being able to do that....along with, well, the basics of a successful business to begin with....but what most don't hear about are the 'crap years'....
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                                  #17
                                  Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                                  Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                                  I guess you're not grasping this......
                                  Of course I "grasp" it! But, I'm saying that you can often make choices that increase your range of options instead of locking you into more of a "survival" mode.

                                  I'm glad that you're so well-off that you can be selective about who's money you'll take.....
                                  But it's not "well off". Rather, its a question of living within my means. Thankfully, I don't need/want much that I don't already have. So, buying a car every 15 years doesn't make me feel like I've "deprived" myself of a "new car" (every *7* years). I don't "need" an "iPhone 500" to live my life. And, I won't need an iPhone 501 next year, either! Or, trendy athletic shoes, shirts with little embroidered logos, etc.

                                  Our most expensive meal costs us a bit more than $6 to prepare for the two of us (not counting electricity costs). My neighbors spend that much, EACH, on breakfast "out". It's not like were eating Fillet Mignon every day...

                                  my one and only point was simply that the vast majority of businesses out there don't have that luxury. I've been self employed all my life, I know this to be a fact.
                                  Sure, but that's also a function of the business's focus. The more of a commodity your product, the harder it is to differentiate yourself from others. And, the less likely there are to be folks wanting to "consume" that differentiation. The guy who pulls the neighbors' weeds has a tougher time saying "no" to a potential customer than the dentist who does $5K implants (notice how many dentists are closed on fridays? EVERY friday??)

                                  It has nothing to do with kids, lifestyle, age, etc.....While spending is indeed a factor, its moot if there's nothing to spend.

                                  I get it....with time and success, I too have over time began hand-picking some of the tasks that I will and won't do...and living comfy is definitely a prerequisite to being able to do that....along with, well, the basics of a successful business to begin with....but what most don't hear about are the 'crap years'....
                                  Even when I worked a "regular job" I can't recall any particularly tough times. I remember long hours before finishing school -- weekends, summers, evenings, etc. Time "invested" in my future opportunities when my peers were out playing or partying.

                                  Again, I attribute that to the fact that I don't need/spend much so I can "coast" for a REALLY long time off savings. Other colleagues tend to start to panic as they near the end of one contract and go fishing for their next (different "needs" and spending patterns).

                                  OTOH, if my wife had insisted on having the latest fashions, a car that was washed each week and replaced every few years, a pair of rug rats, a new McMansion every few years, being "seen" in all the "right places", etc. that simply wouldn't have been possible.

                                  [I've a colleague who drives a Ferrari. I'm not sure that it gets him around town any "better" than my Acura! He's obviously opted to be more dependant on sales than I have. (I cringe to consider what his insurance premium must be!)]

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                                    #18
                                    Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                                    Well, back to the topic at hand...
                                    I don't think selling used computers is in any way close to being a "product that folks can't get elsewhere", no matter how you price it. So as far as hand-picking your customers on that one - I just don't see it how. But perhaps you already do? (And if yes - awesome! Maybe share a few secrets with us?? )

                                    Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                                    my one and only point was simply that the vast majority of businesses out there don't have that luxury.
                                    Exactly!
                                    In most businesses, the customers *choose you* because you offer something that they want/need (be it a product or a service) at an affordable price. It's rarely the other way around.

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                                      #19
                                      Re: Marketing refurbished machines

                                      Originally posted by momaka View Post
                                      Well, back to the topic at hand...
                                      I don't think selling used computers is in any way close to being a "product that folks can't get elsewhere", no matter how you price it. So as far as hand-picking your customers on that one - I just don't see it how. But perhaps you already do? (And if yes - awesome! Maybe share a few secrets with us?? )
                                      My business isn't selling used computers! (my comment re: customers reflects my own attitude towards them in my business)

                                      This post, OTOH, is a query for a non-profit with which I'm affiliated -- I'm asking for advice on THEIR behalf.

                                      [most businesses out there don't have that luxury]

                                      Exactly!
                                      In most businesses, the customers *choose you* because you offer something that they want/need (be it a product or a service) at an affordable price. It's rarely the other way around.
                                      Do you buy iPhones because they are "affordable"? Folks buy iPhones because they've bought into the "Apple mystique" and convinced themselves that the hundreds of other smartphone offerings are "inadequate".

                                      As a result, Apple sets its price where they want it. They could just as easily pick and choose their customers if it was important to them.

                                      Colleges pick and choose the customers (students) that they want to serve -- even though those customers have to PAY for that privilege.

                                      The same is true of many other "professionals".

                                      You have control over your customers when you have something they can't get elsewhere -- or, can't get at a comparable price (in those cases where the customer is unwilling or unable to pay the price asked by the vendor he'd prefer to use, all else being equal).

                                      If you're selling gallons of milk (commodity products), then you're pretty much stuck with whomever shows up to purchase them!

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