Need help wiring up 240VAC.

[budm]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

HP PDU: see page 117 for what kind of compliance it has:


Safety compliance: UL 60950-1
https://www.ul.com/consumer-technolo...trical-safety/
"A harmonized, hazard–based safety standard IEC 62368-1 designed to encompass A/V and IT products has been developed in response to technological changes as product capabilities merge. This new IEC hazard-based standard will eventually replace IEC 60065 and IEC 60950-1. See 62368-1 Hazard Based Safety Engineering & Testing for details."

62368-1 Hazard Based Safety:
https://www.ul.com/consumer-technolo...-based-safety/
"62368-1 is the hazard-based standard that will eventually replace existing standards: IEC/EN/UL/CSA 60065, Audio, Video & Similar Electronic Apparatus and IEC/EN/UL/CSA 60950–1, Information Technology Equipment. This new standard applies to a broad range of high-tech products from consumer electronics to office equipment and offers greater flexibility in product design, making it easier for the introduction of new technology."
"Are You Ready for 62368-1? Prepare for Compliance with the UL 62368 ToolKit

The 62368 UL ToolKit is available for $795 USD. This comprehensive resource includes:

A copy of the 62368-1 Standard ($642 USD value)
Step-by-step transition guide
Notifications on latest updates to 62368-1
Access to Webinars/Webcasts
Exclusive Members-Only Q&A Blog
and much more…"
As you can see, if you want to do pre-test you need to know what the test are so you will buy xxxxxx standard and study it and lots of time it is not perfectly clear either. And when the standard is changed or updated, you must be prepare that you device will pass the new requirement. It is never ending process, we go though that every year and it sure costs us lots of money every year. It will be lots of learning curve. We have compliance department just to keep all the products compliance up to date.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Any one can make the device to pass compliance as long as you follow the requirement which basically need to have the knowledge to begin with. At my work place we bought lots of equipment to do pre-test to make sure it will pass the specific test per UL before giving the products to UL to be tested. UL does not care if you are licensed or not, just as long as the device will pass their test, they will you if it fails the test or not but they will not tell you how to fix it to make it pass the test.

What kind of the device are you trying to make and sell and whom will be the customer base?
You can study more here:
https://www.ul.com/consumer-technology/en/
https://industries.ul.com/segments/medical-devices

I will PM you.

[budm]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

RF modules:
https://emcfastpass.com/rf-modules/
http://www.embedded-computing.com/em...r-iot-products.
If you are going incorporate the pre-certified device then you read through that link and pay attention so when you do EMC/EMI testing of the final device you will not get the surprise.
This is one of the Lab we use: http://www.baclcorp.com/index.html I have been there many times to oversee the testing.
BTW, you can also request your product manufacturer to do the compliance testing for you, sometime it is cheaper to have it done in China than the US.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Sorry to hear about your condition Spork, hope it improves!

I don't remember what he said about the GFCI breakers. Do you guys foresee any issues with using GFCI breakers (replacing the current breakers with the same size GFCI breakers) for the type of loads I have, such as BGA rework station (~4800 watt), pre-heater (I think ~2000 watt, but might be mistaken), WHA-900 hot air rework station, digital soldering iron, logic anaylzer (mainframe), servers (2,800 watt each, two PSUs at 1,400 watt), vacuum cleaner, etc?

Shouldn't be any issues, right?

You can't use a single GFCI breaker for so many devices.
Normally they are rated for 20mA fault current to break the circuit.
The thing is to get proper safety PSU's need X caps between live & earth, which do leak a bit.
And when you add many power supplies and other equipment up you will pass that 20mA rating and the breaker will trip.

I will probably need to use such a service with my inventions that we plan on trying to sell to the public (and eventually, commercial) sector.

Because they're going to be drawing electricity, they're going to need to be tested, to see what interference they're putting off, etc, right? Is TuV what I'd use for compliance testing if our target market is the entire world?

As a beginner for compliance testing this video might be able to offer some insight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRSAK3D8VJU

I ran a test. Despite what the HPE techs said, some of the people on EEVBlog where correct. I wired one of the 1400 watt PSUs up to one of my NEMA L6-30P's and plugged it in. Fired right up.

Even though I've installed the PDU, we still have the original box and packing material (which must be kept if we're not sending it back for warranty purposes). I'm hoping I can use the HPE techs said the PSUs wouldn't work with the American 120-0-120V split-phase as leverage if they give me any shit about sending it back.

But I'm going to attempt to do what Per Hansson said and send that bitch back and purchase a couple of the P9S13As.

That sounds much better, besides running a single PDU is a single point of failure.
Just like with the GFCI breakers: single point of failure.
Better to have double of everything since you have redundant PSU's.
That also goes for the proposed transformer: would have been a single point of failure.
And worse if it failed: it might take you a very long time to source a replacement transformer which for a hosting company would mean very unhappy customers!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Sorry to hear about your condition Spork, hope it improves!

You can't use a single GFCI breaker for so many devices.
Normally they are rated for 20mA fault current to break the circuit.
The thing is to get proper safety PSU's need X caps between live & earth, which do leak a bit.
And when you add many power supplies and other equipment up you will pass that 20mA rating and the breaker will trip.

As a beginner for compliance testing this video might be able to offer some insight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRSAK3D8VJU


That sounds much better, besides running a single PDU is a single point of failure.
Just like with the GFCI breakers: single point of failure.
Better to have double of everything since you have redundant PSU's.
That also goes for the proposed transformer: would have been a single point of failure.
And worse if it failed: it might take you a very long time to source a replacement transformer which for a hosting company would mean very unhappy customers!

I gotcha. We're not a hosting company and don't plan on being one, but redundancy is always good.

Having issues with our ISP. Right now, we cannot afford a dedicated fibre line. Shared lines aren't really that impressive here. However, Spectrum offers what they call Internet Gig, which is something like 1,000Mbps down / 30 up. It'd cost us an extra 54$ to upgrade to that, which is tempting, but what we really need is a static IP and I'd love to have RIPv2 enabled.

They won't provide us with a static IP and enable RIPv2 unless we switch to business, but if we switch to business, we loose IPv6 and a bunch of residential channels, including the BBC (I cannot live without my Star Trek, wife and I cannot live without our Doctor Who, both of which are on BBC). So we'd need two accounts, one residential for TV (which costs about the same, if not more than what we're paying for residential TV, phone, and internet!), plus a business one for phone and internet (which is cheaper than residential), but I need the IPv6.

For the company who offers the shared fibre lines, Empire Access, no IPv6 yet. They're supposed to email me or call once the technicians get back to them to see if they can hook their incoming fibre line directly to our transceiver instead of using one of theirs. No since going from fibre to copper to fibre to copper. I doubt they'd do that though. It's probably their transceiver that sets the speed.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Finally got some good news! Took my drawing down to the code enforcement office to get the permit. Steve, the enforcer, was impressed with it and said he wasn't going to make me pay for a permit. He said just do the rough wiring, call one of the inspectors, have it inspected, then they'll call him, and I can finish tying it up.

At first, he thought it was a drawing I printed off the net, but I assured him it was one I made of my actual basement. Here's the pic of what I showed him. I know it isn't perfect and not to scale (for example, the electrical boxes I'm using are 4 foot from the floor, they're 4" x 4" in size, that leaves 2 feet to the ceiling, but in the drawing, they appear in to be about middle from the floor and ceiling). That was because I didn't have enough room to label stuff.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

nice drawing, but use sleeving instead of tape,
and use screw terminals instead of stabbing.
so you are fitting a pair of 32A 240v outlets?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

nice drawing, but use sleeving instead of tape,
and use screw terminals instead of stabbing.
so you are fitting a pair of 32A 240v outlets?

I agree that backstabbing is generally bad, but these are industrial grade outlets and the backstabbing isn't going to be an issue. I can show a picture of the connection if you want.

Where you screw down the wire, there's a really thick plate (just like with the breakers) where you slip the wire into and tighten the screw. It's just like the breakers.

We are fitting a pair of 30A 240v outlets. For sleeving, you mean the heat shrink tubing? That is a great idea.

I forgot to tape the white HOT wire, so I have to remove it anyway from the breaker. Haven't quite gotten to installing the conduit and receptacles. Needed a better drill to drill into the cement. We have the cement bit but with my little battery powered drill, oh man.

I noticed the professional electrician we hired to replace the sub-panel and panel with a 200-amp panel did NOT mark the white wires at all! And on top of it, at the actual receptacle, he marked the black wire with white paint. To me, that just doesn't seem right.

I will say, he had a young apprentice working for him (my neighbor who works for CAC who knows him says he believes that was his son) and perhaps the son marked the black wire with white paint and the main guy just didn't check. Not sure how the inspector missed that with the rough wiring, unless they didn't really inspect inside because they're so used to him doing work and just assumed it was good.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

why using shit nema outlets btw?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Because that's what the plugs on the PDUs are.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

you changed them? or HP changed them?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

We sent back the 240VAC single-phase and ordered a replacement of two 120/240 single phase PDUs that come with the NEMA L6-30P plug on them.

[TechGeek]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

your plug is IP44,
the colour indicates the voltage.
120v = yellow
240v = blue
400v = red
if it's light purple - dont mess with it!

so about these building codes:
does the outlet need a specific safety mark?
UL for example?

why do you not want to mess with the light purple plugs?

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

purple is kind of undefined, but generally high frequency or dc.
in other worlds - it's an unknown risk.