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Old 10-12-2016, 12:18 PM   #41
Spork Schivago
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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If your wiring was accessible from both sides of the return, I was thinking to cut it in the center of the return. Run EMT through the return after pulling the romex out. Set a junction box on each end of the EMT. Pull THHN type wire through the EMT and splice it to the ends of the original romex. The point is the junction boxes must remain accessible after you're done. The boxes cannot be behind any walls, etc. You can hide them inside a cabinet as long as the cover can be removed and you can work on the connections.
I misunderstood what you were asking originally. When you said both sides of the return, I thought you meant the one upstairs was one side, the one in the basement was the other side, for some reason. But I do have access to the whole return grate upstairs, the problem is the entire floor joist is now the ductwork, you follow? They used this cardboard type stuff called ThermOpan to block off the rest of the joists. I can probably remove the piece they put in by the romex, but I'm not sure I can put it back in, now that the ductwork on the first floor is installed. They put them in through the hole they cut in the ceiling of the first floor. Want me to try removing that and seeing what's back there? How would I tell when the wires go dead if I don't have access to any junction boxes up there? I'd have to kill the power to the entire house, wouldn't I?
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

It really sounds like whomever did the ac install really screwed up. It sounds like a nightmare to remove the cables from the return to the second floor. There are ways to trace the cables and remove 1 at a time. I am almost saying to skip out on it and relocate the cables as you remodel each room.

I have the same situation in my house. 2-story modular built in 1989, built to 1984 codes and HUD rules. My house is considered as manufactured housing being built in another state in 4 sections. The sections were trucked in, craned in place, siding and shingles installed, utilities connected in basement. Drywall installed along center of house, a little paint and it's move-in ready. I have 2 groups of switches in my kitchen/dining room and second floor stairwell light that are in the returns. I can relocate the second floor switch but there are still other circuits that I can't pull out or relocate unless I drill many holes. The wife won't be happy if I do that right now. It's something I'll deal with as we remodel the house.
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Thank you guys for correcting me. I could have sworn it was 45V during the ringing but I must have been wrong. Perhaps I was trying to light one of those old incandescent light bulbs, the ones that run off AC. I remember it only got bright enough when the phone rang.

For PoE, are you referring to Power Over Ethernet? Just curious. Thanks!
Yup, PoE. 48V is the max but there is a defined range that PoE devices must accept to meet spec. Higher voltages mean lower current, which is important for longer runs and high power devices I.E. access points (which may have a stand alone PoE injector just for said AP).
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:00 PM   #44
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Back in the 90's, was it this way? I remember the payphone connected but there was this interference. I can't remember if it was more of a buzz or what, but you could tell something was interfering. It was constant and not changing at all. However, when my friend disconnected from the payphone, he never got his quarter back. He wasted another telling me it didn't work. The green box (I think it was green), didn't work either. We tried using that to get free quarters.

In the end, at the high school, we found a magic number that we could call. There were two numbers written down on the payphone there, handwritten, and we discovered if we called both of them, we'd get a dial tone and could make free calls. That worked for a long time, a good 3 or 4 years, then it just stopped working one day. At that point though, we figured out the codes for the school's phone system (I think it was some sort of PBX). We could make outgoing calls from any phone (some where just 9 then the number, others were a four digit number, 9 and then the number). We could get on the PA system. On graduation, we played over the PA system, School's Out, by Alice Cooper. We used a cassette tape that had the tones recorded on it to get onto the PA and then the song. We didn't play it for more than 30 seconds or though. We just taped it to the telephone, hit play, walked away, it played after a bit. The teachers suspected it was us but could never prove it. It was fun.

We also had all the information on the students. A program called SView or Student View. It gave the students class schedule, their contact information, grades, etc. One guy found out we had the codes to get on the phone and told a teacher who told the principal. He called me in and was like I got power too, give me one of your friends names. I gave him one, he started SView and pulled up all his records and said see, I can tell you, right now, Andrew is in Lunch. I felt like saying, yeah, we can do that too. But I didn't. He said he had to pay someone to come in and change the codes for the phone system. I told him we could do that for him and that really got him upset. I ended up getting a day in detention. I didn't roll over on any of my friends though and just pretended I was the only one with the code. It wasn't hard to figure out the new code after the old one was changed. We had lots of fun back then.
Yes late 80's early 90's. If he had been a smart Principle, instead of being upset he would of realized you were very talented and curious and he would of promoted that in you for your future. Sounds like you enjoyed yourself back then.
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Originally Posted by delaware74b View Post
It really sounds like whomever did the ac install really screwed up. It sounds like a nightmare to remove the cables from the return to the second floor. There are ways to trace the cables and remove 1 at a time. I am almost saying to skip out on it and relocate the cables as you remodel each room.

I have the same situation in my house. 2-story modular built in 1989, built to 1984 codes and HUD rules. My house is considered as manufactured housing being built in another state in 4 sections. The sections were trucked in, craned in place, siding and shingles installed, utilities connected in basement. Drywall installed along center of house, a little paint and it's move-in ready. I have 2 groups of switches in my kitchen/dining room and second floor stairwell light that are in the returns. I can relocate the second floor switch but there are still other circuits that I can't pull out or relocate unless I drill many holes. The wife won't be happy if I do that right now. It's something I'll deal with as we remodel the house.
Delaware74b,

Unfortunately, I think you're right. At this point, I'm thinking of just rerouting the wires when I do the hallway next and just hoping it doesn't catch fire until then. I'll start rerouting the cables as well. That's going to be a bit harder. I'm going to need a bunch of drill bit extensions to drill through a wall stud block. It's about 4 or 5 feet down in the wall. I can see it using a camcorder and a flashlight. That's how we were originally going to run the cat 3, coax and ethernet wires originally, until we saw the block. Somehow, the previous owners drilled through that, probably when the drywall was down.

We don't want to have to take drywall down. We're not very good at taping and mudding. If we were, we'd just remove the drywall and drill through those blocks and run the wires that way. Then we wouldn't need to use one of those fish wire things at all. Just more work I guess. Time to start pulling out the wires I ran to the basement and make sure they don't go into the cold air return at all.
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Old 10-13-2016, 01:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Yes late 80's early 90's. If he had been a smart Principle, instead of being upset he would of realized you were very talented and curious and he would of promoted that in you for your future. Sounds like you enjoyed yourself back then.
Yes, we had a lot of fun back then. When I first went to high school, I had a hard time fitting in. At lunch, I'd sit at a table, but never really clicked with the people there. Then, finally, I went to the table with the geeks! They were extremely accepting and we just clicked. They taught me what they knew, I learned from them, eventually, I started showing them stuff that I knew that they didn't. We had all kinds of fun.

In my senior year, we had become pretty cool. Over the 4 years there, sometimes, people would try making fun of us. My favourite thing to say was hey, when I'm done with high school, I'm going to be able to get a job repairing PCs or writing computer programs. I'll be able to go to college and I'll have an easier time learning the PC stuff because I've been studying for the past x amount of years. What are you going to do?

In one of the computer labs, they had a token ring network. We'd unplug one of the terminators if we didn't want to go to class. Sometimes, between class periods, we'd sneak in and unplug it. We'd agree with each other when the teacher called us in that we'd say it was too hard to repair by ourselves and needed a second hand. We'd end up getting all of us in there and just shoot the shit until the class period almost ended. Then we'd just plug the terminator back in and bring the network back up. It was lots of fun. The teachers started learning we were good at PCs and they started having us fix their computers in the class rooms and even their home PCs. SCT Boces was supposed to be in charge of them but it took a very long (weeks, if not more than a month) for them to come and repair the PCs. Teachers love the internet and when their NIC went or their PC didn't turn on, we'd be the ones who'd fix them.

One kid was formatting PCs in one of the labs and the teacher wanted him caught. So I wrote a format program. It allowed people to format the A: drive but not the C drive. If they tried formatting the C drive, it'd go through as normal and ask all the right questions, but as soon as they hit Y for yes, I want to continue and format the C drive, it'd go into an infinite loop and just beep non-stop. Very first day I installed it on all the PCs, sure enough, the kid was caught! We didn't have to reinstall the OS every day after that.
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

Taping drywall is a cinch. The hard part is getting the sheets into place. For taping I like to use the fiberglass sticky back tape that is not solid. I like using long setting Spackle as it has a good adhesive. A 6 inch flexible knife works well. You can cut the tape for just what you may need or you can put the tape on a roller and just keep taping.
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:41 PM   #48
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Taping drywall is a cinch. The hard part is getting the sheets into place. For taping I like to use the fiberglass sticky back tape that is not solid. I like using long setting Spackle as it has a good adhesive. A 6 inch flexible knife works well. You can cut the tape for just what you may need or you can put the tape on a roller and just keep taping.
We have tried drywall in the past and couldn't get the piece we removed back in level with the other drywall. We ended up using a lot of mud but I don't think that's the proper way of doing it.

Why do we need to use tape at all Keeney123? Isn't mud enough? Last time, we didn't use any tape, we just threw mud on it, sanded, threw some more mud, sanded, etc until it was fairly flush. If you looked hard, you could tell it wasn't right. But if you didn't look hard, you couldn't tell. I tip my hat to the people who can do that stuff!
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:10 PM   #49
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

Tape should be put on joins and corners to stop cracks.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:44 PM   #50
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Tape should be put on joins and corners to stop cracks.
Why on joints though? Isn't mud good enough for that?


Also, I'm really really really tempted to purchase some red cat 5e and solder the ends to the cat 3 6C and then just pull the 5e through and use the cat 3 for electronic projects. I've looked at all kinds of SMC (Structured Media Centers) and they all kind of expect the cat 5 / 5e stuff.

If I hadn't already cut the cat 3, when whoever suggested the 5 / 5e, I would have taken the 3 back. Now it's all ran and it'd be a pain, but I almost think it'd be worth it.

What would you guys do? Pull the 5e through and ditch the cat 3? Or keep the cat 3 and just use 5e in the future?
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:30 AM   #51
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Why on joints though?
That's where the cracks are likely to happen.
Every decent plasterer will always use tape. I applied the tape to all the joins and corners in my house before they were skimmed.
There is no sanding required if it's applied properly.

Last edited by diif; 10-14-2016 at 09:32 AM..
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:46 PM   #52
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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Why on joints though? Isn't mud good enough for that?


Also, I'm really really really tempted to purchase some red cat 5e and solder the ends to the cat 3 6C and then just pull the 5e through and use the cat 3 for electronic projects. I've looked at all kinds of SMC (Structured Media Centers) and they all kind of expect the cat 5 / 5e stuff.

If I hadn't already cut the cat 3, when whoever suggested the 5 / 5e, I would have taken the 3 back. Now it's all ran and it'd be a pain, but I almost think it'd be worth it.

What would you guys do? Pull the 5e through and ditch the cat 3? Or keep the cat 3 and just use 5e in the future?
It is done on joints to connect the two pieces together with more than joint compound. The tape gives it strength like the paper gives to the sheet rock. The fiberglass tape is very flat unlike the paper tape. The Spackle will cling to the fiber filling in the spaces between the strands. Joint compound is very porous after is is dry you can take a sponge an actually take it off. What hardens it is the sealer that is applied to it. The sealer goes into the joint compound and has a adhesive that sets up. Spackle has an adhesive in it that is why I use it on joints. I believe both of them can be smoothed with water after dried. Spackle will be harder to remove. So the only places you need to patch is indents from sheet rock screws and joints tape. You can use a sealer primer before to paint the walls.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

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That's where the cracks are likely to happen.
Every decent plasterer will always use tape. I applied the tape to all the joins and corners in my house before they were skimmed.
There is no sanding required if it's applied properly.
Thanks for the pointers! We'll use the tape when we use the drywall. Put some mud down, slap the tape on, smooth it out, wait until the mud dries, and then slap mud over the tape, right?
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:31 PM   #54
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

Its adhesive and you stick it onto the plasterboard or drywall, then the plaster.
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:31 PM   #55
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Default Re: Suggestions on how to CAT6, CAT3 and RG6

Myron Ferguson's book on drywall is pretty good. He also has a blog and youtube videos, but I haven't really checked those out, since I haven't done any drywall lately.
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