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Old 06-21-2018, 05:40 PM   #101
goontron
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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Originally Posted by petehall347 View Post
would running it transformer out of circuit cause damage ? like nowhere for the energy to go to ?
These transformers aren't like a flyback. More like an ignition coil. They are pulsed to both drive the transformer, and give time to clear "load" (a cow, goat, horse, grass, etc). They are normally run open, but that neon tube does clamp some of the larger pulses.

On a side note: They run resonate at 10-15 Khz if you ever find one and want to make it into an HV transformer, but submerge it in oil if you do.
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Last edited by goontron; 06-21-2018 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 06-21-2018, 06:06 PM   #102
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

if the 360Ω resistors still heats up with the transformer disconnected, only thing that could be causing it is a shorted main filter cap...?
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Old 06-21-2018, 06:14 PM   #103
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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if the 360Ω resistors still heats up with the transformer disconnected, only thing that could be causing it is a shorted main filter cap...?
Or the Diodes. But if they are gone that cap is damaged also.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:06 AM   #104
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

unlikely that running without a load will damage the transformer, i'v seen people test tv outputs with the anode cable in a jam-jar!!!
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:30 AM   #105
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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Originally Posted by goontron View Post
Or the Diodes. But if they are gone that cap is damaged also.
"shorted main filter cap" would that be the huge 400V Capacitor ? I am too scared of that huge cap..? or is that the smaller cap 25v, which is now 50v.

It may take a few days to get time to attempt fixing it, will take all that into account and provide new data at that time. I have also smaller diodes, so might replace the original/big ones. anyways, i may just order bunch of parts and replace some of them..

resistors definitely heated without the coil, and going forward i'm limiting testing to 10-20 seconds max until that is clear, so will need to take parts off circuit and re-test them.

Thanks again.
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:07 PM   #106
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

^ Yep. The big bastard.
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:12 PM   #107
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Posting the updated schematic.

You could test this with a series light-bulb, to limit current and give some indication of current draw. With the transformer disconnected, the only load that could heat up the power resistors is that big motor starting cap. It might be breaking down at high voltages.
Attached Images
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:54 PM   #108
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Guardian angles, I may have time tomorrow, I'm so scared of that big guy, but will deal with it.. question, assuming I PULL the 2 diodes OFF circuit , to test them. now energize the board with no load/coil connected, the resistors should NOT heat up, and if they do, then they are BAD/low quality? I'm trying to find ways to debug why they over heat, but definitely i need more time to work and report back.. so far i'm not seeing any cows or horses running loose, so i got a bit time. Farmer says that once they see it working, for a week or so they'll not touch the fence
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:34 PM   #109
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

With the transformer disconnected, the only way to heat those resistors is with a short across the large capacitor, nothing else will do it. except maybe 2 leaky/shorted diodes but they would both need to be bad at the same time.
It's the cap.

Last edited by R_J; 06-22-2018 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:22 PM   #110
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

OK, took some time to test/measure, all tests were done without Load/COIL as follows:

Test1: Pull 400v/16uF large capacitor OFF circuit (pull cable) and energize the board. that came OK, no heat even after 3 minutes.

Test2: Connect 400v/16uF to board, energize the board within 5 seconds the resistors become super HOT to touch, Immediately cut power!!

Test3: pull both diodes out of circuit, energize board, resistors do not get hot


Measured components as follows:

Measure1: on-circuit both resistors show exactly as 360 Ohm. when board energized both resistors get 230VAC to them.

Measure2: Off-circuit large capacitor shows as 16uF (see photo) also, ESR 0.01 (very low).

Measure3: 1N5408 diodes show resistance of 70K Ohm vs 10M Ohm (other direction) and 80K Ohm vs 360K Ohm. Testing other diodes from other boards, it seems the other direction should be infinity so, maybe both diodes are (partly?) bad after all???

The 1N5408 described here: https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds28007.pdf
have 1000V/700V RMS/3.0A.

I'll try to energize with the spare 2A diodes and see if resistors get hot, either way I'll find new 1000V/3A diodes soon.

Thanks for any tips, looks like the big guy gets to stay for now since diodes are suspects

Stormy.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20180624_234827.jpg (751.8 KB, 1 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_20180624_235647.jpg (489.6 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by stormy1777; 06-24-2018 at 04:24 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 06-24-2018, 05:18 PM   #111
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

yeah, diodes seem like they've seen better days. Even vacuum tube diodes have near infinite reverse resistance.

Now what caused the diodes to go bad... Better make sure the big cap didn't go leaky...
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Old 06-24-2018, 05:31 PM   #112
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Default [RE-RESOLVED]: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Hi there!!
Maybe we can say Miracles do happen!!? Looking in pile of unopened parts, found these new diode strip, within 3 minutes the unit is back working, now ticking every second or so, and giving very good ZAPS, more sparky than before!

Left it running for 20 min, and resistors were COLD...

Lets see what the farm animals will think up this time around

This was a joyful and fun learning experience!

Thanks for the absolutely AMAZING encouragement ("dark humor"??) and thorough knowledge.. it came in very handy!!

If the big capacitor is leaky? Not sure how to test for that, time will tell maybe..

See photos of proof the unit is working, you can see the new diodes, new resistors as well as NEON lighting up.

Maybe lessons learned, when one resistor burns change the other, and when diode is "weak" change both I'll try to remember that

Thanks again.

Stormy
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File Type: jpg IMG_20180625_020022.jpg (655.8 KB, 4 views)
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Old 06-24-2018, 05:42 PM   #113
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

BTW, when we say that capacitor is leaky, we mean EPR or effective parallel resistance, not ESR. Simply use a regular ohmmeter (DC ohmmeter, not AC ohmmeter which is used for ESR) with the probes in the right direction and wait for the capacitor to charge up, the/all capacitor/capacitors should eventually show up as infinite resistance.
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Old 06-24-2018, 05:44 PM   #114
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

And y'all were second guessin' the guy who lives in the cowboy state

This ain't my first rodeo, padner!

Last edited by goontron; 06-24-2018 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 06-24-2018, 05:49 PM   #115
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

i dont know if its those series diodes ..if its parallel i match the vf . not sure when in series if it matters .. thinking it might do .. be good to know if anyone knows .
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:53 PM   #116
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

don't need to match if in series, just like LEDs. However if dealing with reverse voltage they may need to be treated like capacitors and deal with the leak caused by the balancing...
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:27 PM   #117
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

The two series-rectifiers are good to 2kV PIV, so I think mains transients damaged that one. With +340V on the big cap, you have -1.6kV left

Lightning, or line switching transients, a reverse-voltage spike can avalanche a diode and kill it. The 2x360R resistance limits any current through them but diodes don't take much avalanche current.

I think an outlet could see 1,500V-2,500V spikes depending on the electrical system and nearby loads etc.
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:34 PM   #118
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

lightning may well be the root cause, it's outside after all...
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:39 PM   #119
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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Originally Posted by eccerr0r View Post
lightning may well be the root cause, it's outside after all...
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I've seen diodes get blown out on these things often, so check those.
My experience exactly. Even just a nearby strike will kill these things.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:48 AM   #120
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

It nice to see that you have it back up and running again
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