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Old 05-01-2006, 03:26 AM   #1
yanz
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Default Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capacitors

I have developed below, comparison tables of the characteristics of 5 major Japanese Low ESR capacitors which i hope you find useful for ease of comparison instead of referring to the PDF technical data sheets.

Last edited by willawake; 06-08-2006 at 03:21 AM..
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

Direct links to the tables

Sizing / Capacitance of each manufacturer's series

Chemicon | Nichicon | Panasonic | Rubycon | Sanyo

Complete List of the tables:

1000uF & 1200uF Caps
--------------------------
6.3v 8mm 10mm
10v 8mm 10mm
16v 8mm 10mm



1500uF & 1800uF Caps
------------------------
6.3v 8mm 10mm
10v 8mm 10mm
16v 10mm



2200uF Caps
------------------
6.3v 8mm 10mm
10v 10mm
16v 10mm 12.5mm



2700uF Caps
------------------
6.3v 10mm 12.5mm
10v 10mm 12.5mm
16v 12.5mm



3300uF Caps
--------------
6.3v 10mm 12.5mm
10v 12.5mm
16v 12.5mm



3900uF Caps
--------------
6.3v 12.5mm
10v 12.5mm
16v 12.5mm

Last edited by willawake; 06-08-2006 at 03:27 AM..
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

1000uF & 1200uF 8mm 10v Caps


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Old 05-01-2006, 03:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

so far so good...

1000uF & 1200uF 10mm 10v Caps


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Old 05-01-2006, 03:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

1500uF & 1800uF 8mm 6.3v Caps



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Old 05-01-2006, 03:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

1500uF & 1800uF 10mm 10v Caps




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Old 05-01-2006, 03:54 AM   #7
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

1500uF & 1800uF 10mm 16v Caps



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Old 05-01-2006, 03:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

2200uF 10mm 6.3v Caps



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Old 05-01-2006, 03:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

2200uF 10mm 10v Caps



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Old 05-01-2006, 04:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

2200uF 10mm 16v Caps



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Old 05-01-2006, 04:03 AM   #11
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

3300uF 10mm 6.3v Caps



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Old 05-01-2006, 04:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

Well, after 6 hours nontsop working on this, i give up. That's as far as my blood (& eyes) could go , honestly it took tons of drink to complete them. And im not satisfied yet with the result. A scripted webpage would be more excellent...


At 1000uF range, diameter of the caps became less important as they are easy to obtain at 10mm and 8mm. So it would be simpler and more compact if I include the 8mm and 10mm at the same table.. But that can not do, i have to keep my table consistent.. doh!!



Comments are always welcome..


to be continued..
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Old 05-01-2006, 09:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

Yanz, you've done a lot of work! I would suggest grouping the caps by similar performance rather than by vendor. Since many vendors' have series whose specs are very, very similar (e.g. KY and HE, or LXZ and PW), users of your chart could both see what is available for a specific value and voltage, and the grades of performance.
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Old 05-03-2006, 01:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA
Yanz, you've done a lot of work! I would suggest grouping the caps by similar performance rather than by vendor. Since many vendors' have series whose specs are very, very similar (e.g. KY and HE, or LXZ and PW), users of your chart could both see what is available for a specific value and voltage, and the grades of performance.

Thanks! Yup, you are right. That gives me an idea of how the data would be useful for they who need it.. The work is still far from finish.

Altough i have done a caps comparison by performance, let me think again how to put the data in the table. I ask to myself: should I use one table or several tables.. or no tables at all just links to them. What is the easiest arangement so it can be read easily... etc..

Another idea: table of relation between endurance and temp (range from 105C, 95C, 85C... 35C)

Anyway i hope my raw data are easy to read, and i hope the color code do some help .

I will attach the excel documents when it is ready.


We'll have to do sorting and grouping those series/brand by their performance. Pls give me input/opinion about that...


BTW I include my own observation. Caps with very close characteristics:
  • group 1: Chemicon LXZ = Nichicon PW = Panasonic FC
    group 2: Chemicon KZH ~ Nichicon HV ~ Rubycon ZLH
    group 3: Chemicon KY = Nichicon HE = Rubycon YXG
    group 4: Chemicon KZE = Nichicon HD = Rubycon ZL = Sanyo WX
    group 5: Chemicon KZG = Rubycon MBZ = Sanyo WG
    group 6: Chemicon KZJ = Rubycon MCZ
    group 7: Nichicon HZ

Performance grade:
  • group 1 < group 2 < group 3 < group 4 < group 5 < group 6


This rise some question:
  • Where is Panasonic FM belong in the comparison?

    group 5 < Panasonic FM < group 6

  • Or, Nichicon PM ?

    Nichicon PM = Chemicon LXY/LXV ~ group 1

    Why are'nt they belong to group 1 ? They are longer size so they are slightly better in impedance. But if that isnt enough to justify it, we can add them to group 1:

    group 1: Chemicon LXZ = Nichicon PW = Panasonic FC = ( Nichicon PM + Chemicon LXY)


Now this gives me a headache. There are a lot of series with almost the same spec but different in case size (advanced technology) and endurance . Wait, should we create comparison by endurance?

Isn't endurance = performance?


Man, i would avoid complexity as much as possible. *double headache.. help!

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Old 05-03-2006, 01:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

Check also the thread made by Big Pope:

(Comparison Table of 4 Major Japanese Low ESR Capacitors)
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1191


He made this:

Code:
Nichicon 	NCC 		Rubycon 	SANYO 		Remarks
VZ 		KMG 		YXA 		MV-CZ 		105C General Purpose
PW 		LXZ 		-		MV-CX 		Miniature, Low ESR
HE 		KY 		YXG 		MV-CA 		K6, K6-2, P2, P3 grade
HD 		KZE 		ZL 		MV-WX 		K7, P3 grade
HV 		KZH 		ZLH 		- 		Extra long life, miniature, Low ESR
HM 		KZG 		MBZ 		MV-WG 		K7, K8, P4, P4+ high quality grade
HN 		KZJ 		MCZ 		- 		Ultra Low ESR
HZ 		- 		- 		- 		Lowest ESR of all electrolyte capacitors

What i disagree from that table are:

- Sanyo CA is far worse than Rubyon YXG and Chemicon KY/Nichicon HE
- Should we include Nichicon HN/HM?. They are on badcaps list.
- I would avoid Nichicon VZ, Chemicon KMG, Rubycon YXA, because of their higher ESR. But their quality are better then some LESR Taiwanese Caps. I know some people use some general purpose of japanese caps (like Rainbow ) for recaping with no probs. I was once using Chemicon SXE (general purpose) with no success. I have to ask japlytic though, wether he use the SXE for PC board or Audio hardwares.. Probably SXE is good for certain board that fine with higher ESR Caps.
- Panasonic caps should be included in the comparuson due to the popular use of FJ series..
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Old 05-03-2006, 02:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

1000uF 8mm 16v Caps



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Old 05-03-2006, 02:14 AM   #17
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

1000uF & 1200uF 16mm 16v Caps



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Old 05-03-2006, 01:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

IMO, PM, like PR and PJ are getting near to being near to series end-of-life.

I did a similar exercise with 50V, 16x25 parts and came up with similar groupings, except:

* Group 2 >> HV, KZH, and YXG

* Group 3 >> HE, KY, YXH

* Group X >> KZM, ZLH

The HM, HN, HZ and equivalents don't go high enough in voltage for my purposes, so I didn't look at them very closely.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:30 AM   #19
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

Sory, long time no updates.. i've got busy This thread doesn't get much attention anyway.. so..

@Petes, well, my bad that the performance comparison i made in the last post is wrong, so for the caps with rated voltage of 6.3v - 16v IMO the right grouping is like this:

Code:
Group	Chemicon	Nichicon	Rubycon		Sanyo		Panasonic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1	LXZ		PW		-		-		FC		
2	KY		HE		YXG		-		-
3	KZH		HV		ZLH		-		-
4	KZE		HD		ZL		WX		-
5	KZG		MBZ		-		WG		-
6	-		-		ZLG		-		FM
7	KZJ		MCZ		-		-		-
8	-		HZ		-		-		-


group 1 < group 2 < group 3 < group 4 < group 5 < group 6 < group 7 < group 8

I am pretty much sure that's the final arrangement.


(We could see some samxon series on group 5 - 8 but samxon caps quality are still under monitoring by some of us.. I guess that will need about 3-4 years ).


Like you've mentioned, some of the series are being near to their end-of-life. Some series even has been discontinued. But I still see plenty of supply of them, example is the HFQ series from Panny.

The rule of the grouping can be different for voltage range of 25v - 50v like you've mentioned. Some of the manufacturers are pretty consistent in using the 'standard' can size, but some others use widely (odd) variation for the can size, so two series that have similar spec/formula on 6.3v - 10v can be different in spec for 25v-50v range.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:32 AM   #20
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Default Re: Comparison tables between 5 major Japanese Low ESR capasitors

i think we need some maps:
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