Jetway J694AS

[skinnybonesjones]

Hi, this is my 1st post here. As I can see you`re all aware of the cap brand giving me trouble...Tayeh, but I figured I`d post anyway for more evidence. My computer has been giving me problems for the last year now. Started off once in awhile, then got progressively worse. Basically, restarting, failure to POST, etc. After trying everything else, someone suggested I check the caps. Sure enough, 5 of them are bulging (2 out of 5 leaking from the top)!

After doing some net searches, I found tons of info, and came across this site. I had no idea this problem was so huge, but I feel better to finally have an idea of why my system is so unstable. I`m a bit of a newbie, but anything I can do to help the cause...

The caps are: Tayeh 1500uF 6.3v.
The motherboard is a: Jetway J694AS

I took a pic but you can`t see the brand, only the bulging. I`ll post another once I remove the motherboard and can get a better shot of the caps.

[willawake]

Re: Jetway J694AS

Welcome!

that looks like a tualatin. are you planning to recap the board yourself?

[skinnybonesjones]

To tell you the truth, I`m not sure . It`s a Pentium III, and I was thinking it`s a Coppermine cause it`s 1GHz, but I`m not sure. I bought this system off my friend`s teacher a couple years ago, and he was the one who put it together. I`ve never removed the heatsink, either. As of about 1 year ago, I didn`t know a thing about computers (just use it for making music!), but this one`s been acting so mysteriously, that I`ve taken an interest, and have been learning everything I can on the net.

Anyway, to answer your question, I`d like to recap this board myself. But the thing is, I don`t have a soldering station/solder sucker. I`d have to buy the equipment before I can get started. I took an electronics class a few years back, and we did a lot of soldering, but I still could use a little practice before I work on the mobo.

My wife said her dad might have some equipment, but if he doesn`t, I`m thinking it may just be cheaper to pick up a used mobo out here, rather than buying a soldering station. I need a socket 370 board, with 168-pin DIMM`s for SDRAM PC133 capable of over 1GB of RAM (I`ve got 2 brandnew 512MB sticks of Crucial memory for this board which I`d hate to go to waste). The thing is, a lot of the socket 370 boards I`ve seen on the net only take a max of 512MB of RAM. So it depends on what I can find out here, and as my Japanese isn`t perfect(I`m learning!) it might be rough shopping for parts!

I`m going into Akihabara (aka Electric Town) in Tokyo tomorrow. There are tons of electronics places there, so I`m gonna check for everything, and compare prices. I`d also like to check out capacitors, but I`ve got a few questions on what to look for:

I`ve heard you can replace 1500uF with 2200uF caps. My question is, is it preferable to do so?

Also, I`ve heard you can go up in voltage, but not down. But is going up in voltage preferable? Or it just doesn`t make a difference.

On this site, I saw some good cap brand names recomended like Rubycon, Sanyo, Nichicon, and Panasonic, but I`ve also heard I should get low ESR caps. Is there a visible way to identify if a cap is low ESR?

Anything else you can think of to look for would be really helpful.

[willawake]

Re: Jetway J694AS

oh wow. you're a foreigner in Japan....what a trip! what is your nationality and how long have you been there. can you take a few pics of electric town tomorrow we would love to see.

socket 370 and more than 512 ram......i would have said pick up a used asus cusl2 or tusl2 (if tualatin) but yeh they are limited to 512. the caps are not too bad, the majors are usually rubycon/nichicon the rest ost. maybe via chipsets would support higher.

I`ve heard you can replace 1500uF with 2200uF caps. Also, I`ve heard you can go up in voltage, but not down.

yeh you can go up in voltage and capacitance no probs. if you want to preserve the original design then stick to the same or just go up to the next value if you cant find. dont go down though unless you know what you are doing.

here are some low esr caps

Nichicon - PM, PW, HV, HD, HC, HE, HM, HN HZ (we do not recommend using HM or HN series presently due to early fails of those series.)

Nippon Chemicon - NRSZ, NRSX, NRSY, NRSJ, NRSG

NRSX is probably the best

United Chemi-con - KZE, KZH, KZG, KZJ, KZM, LXV, LXY, LXZ

KZE are used on many boards recently.

Panasonic - FC, FM, FK, FA

Panasonic FC are highly available and recommended.

Rubycon - MBZ, MCZ, ZL, ZLG ZLH, ZA, YXH, YXG

Rubycon ZL are highly available and recommended. MBZ, MCZ, ZLH, ZA are highly recommended but difficult to find.

[AK0R]

Re: Jetway J694AS

Good manufacturers, with their caps in order of highest to lowest ESR (lower is better, but usually higher cost):
Nichicon: VZ, PW, HE, HD, HV, HM, HN, HZ (HM and HN are not recommended)
United Chemicon: KMG, LXZ, KY, KZE, KZH, KZG, KZJ
Rubycon: YXA, YXG, ZL, ZLH, MBZ, MCZ
Sanyo: MV-CZ, MV-CX, MV-CA, MV-WX, MV-WG
Panasonic: FC, FM

See Big Pope's post at https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1191 for more information.

Also, the MSI MS-6321 (694D in all its variations) is a dual Socket 370 motherboard that can accomodate 1GB unbuffered PC133 SDR SDRAM. It will work with one processor, and would give you room to add a twin later, if desired. I'm not recommending this board in particular, just listing it as an available option. These boards can often be found on eBay, for anything from reasonable to outrageous prices.

EDIT: took me so long to put my post together, Willawake posted before me, so the cap info is redundant.

[willawake]

Re: Jetway J694AS

EDIT: took me so long to put my post together, Willawake posted before me, so the cap info is redundant.

happens to me many times......

actually your info is better cos the caps are in correct order. i will update the faq.

i withdraw ban on HN HM series though, i hope we are over that now.

[skinnybonesjones]

Thanks for the reply!

I`m American, from California. I moved out here early this year. I love it! But of course miss my friends back home...and the weather . I`ll totally take some pics of Akihabara for you guys. Should I post them in here? Or in the Offtopic/Lounge?

You`re right about the VIA chipsets. The one on my current board supports 1.5GB of RAM.

Anyway, thanks for the quick reply, and for the good info. I`ll post back tomorrow night, and let you know what I found.

EDIT: took me so long to put my post together, Willawake posted before me, so the cap info is redundant.

Just happened to me right now, too! I refreshed the thread before posting, and saw AK0R`s post as well. Thanks for the info!
One other question about motherboard RAM support. I`ve also seen some that support up to 1GB RAM. Would 1024MB work for that?...or is that what the manufacturers mean by 1GB?

[willawake]

Re: Jetway J694AS

good find on the MSI MS-6321 (694D in all its variations). its gonna have crap caps though. do we have any more options?

one thing i would like to say though is be careful about throwing too much money at the old platforms. you already did it and bought the ram though. i was the same....bought many 866 cusl2 on ebay and more sdram etc. the prices for new platform now are quite good now and i will stop that.

[willawake]

Re: Jetway J694AS

Would 1024MB work for that?...or is that what the manufacturers mean by 1GB?

that is 1gb.

post the pics in the lounge. i am sure we will enjoy them.

[skinnybonesjones]

Re: Jetway J694AS

I got some important phone calls today, so I didn`t have a chance to go to Electric Town. Will go tomorrow. I checked out that MSI MS-6321 on the net, and it looks nice for me. I`ll keep an eye out for one tomorrow! Thanks again for the information.

[skinnybonesjones]

Back from Akiba

Searched all over Akihabara today, and couldn`t find a suitable used motherboard. I decided to give replacing the caps a go. I picked up a soldering iron for about $17.50, it`s a Hakko Dash(No.N453P). Supposedly, it heats up to about 430 C. I couldn`t afford the temperature adjustable solder stations.

I got some 0.6mm solder (too thin?). I couldn`t find any labels for 60/40, everything here was labeled by %. The one I got is 60% Sn, that`s tin right? Is this kind ok for soldering a mobo? It was really cheap, so if you recommend something different, I can pick that up.

Thanks for the advice on the low-ESR cap letter codes. It really helped me out when looking. I picked up 10 KZE 1500uF 10v caps to replace all the 1500uF 6.3v Tayeh ones on my board. I attached a picture. Let me know if they look legit.

Also found a junked soundcard to practice removing caps before doing the real deal.

Forgot to pick up the dentist pick. I was suprised that they were actually selling them there! About 500yen which is about $4.20. You can pretty much find anything, but looking for a Socket 370 SDRAM mobo is rough (guess they`re too old).

I read the Recapping FAQ thread, which is really in-depth, and pretty much answered all my questions. Basically, my only questions now are, when you stick the pick/needle through to clean the hole, do you hold the needle through the hole while waiting for the solder to cool, then wiggle it till the solder breaks off the pick, before pulling the pick out of the hole? My other question is: is the 0.6mm 60% Sn solder I got ok for the job? Thanks again for all your help, and I posted the Electric Town pics in the Lounge!

[skinnybonesjones]

Whoops, I`m trippin.

I forgot to post a pic of the caps I got. Look ok?

[skinnybonesjones]

one more question

Every cap on my board is Tayeh. But they all look good except for the 1500uF 6.3v ones. Do you think it`s necessary to replace all the others such as the:
1000uF 10v, 470uF 16v, 100uF 16v, or the 10uF 25v ones?

[Big Pope]

Re: one more question

Every cap on my board is Tayeh. But they all look good except for the 1500uF 6.3v ones. Do you think it`s necessary to replace all the others such as the:
1000uF 10v, 470uF 16v, 100uF 16v, or the 10uF 25v ones?

I don't suggest to repalce 470uF or below capacitors, because it is meaningless. Do you want to try my SAMXON GD and GC? I can send you free of charge.

[willawake]

Re: Jetway J694AS

Big Pope uses a hakko corded iron and did not mention any probs. his is a 40w though and yours is 25W. see how you go anyway.

it is definitely recommended to replace the 1000uF 10v. 470uF 16v is optional, generally if i see those or 300uf 25v i would recap them. so would a few others here. nothing smaller than that though.

here is the pick technique from TC. you should work with the pick and iron at the rear of the board. (as opposed to the faq which i havent changed yet)

You need to reheat the hole until the solder is melted, then insert the needle pick into the hole as far as it will fit without forcing it, going all the way through, immerging from the other side... Remove the iron and let the solder harden. Since the pick is stainless steel, the solder will not adhere to it. GENTLY spin and wiggle the pick around until it breaks loose, then remove it from the hole. Use your Exact-o knife and gently scrape the dry solder from the hole. And WALLA!! You will have a clean open hole, ready to place a NEW capacitor in!!

i use 0.8mm solder. i dont see the problem with 0.6mm, should be fine if not better. looks like you got lead free solder?

[skinnybonesjones]

Re: Jetway J694AS

Thanks for the help! I went back today, and picked up some 1000uF 10v caps as well. Same KZE variety. I got a card from the guy there, and they`ve got a website. It`s totally in Japanese, but there are a lot of pics if you`re curious to check it out:

http://www.san-ei-denpa.com/

I also got a stainless steel pick and an ESD wriststrap, and I`m gonna practice some more on this junk soundcard till I`m more comfortable with the technique (always used a mechanical soldersucker before, but from what I`ve read in here it`s not a good idea on a mobo). The iron I got is hot enough for the soundcard, but we`ll see how it works on the mobo. I`m a little nervous to remove the CPU, before removing the mobo (never done it b4). Picked up some thermal grease in case it`s all dried out under the heatsink. I`ve been learning on the net the safest way to remove it. I know it all depends on the mobo, but if you`ve got any words of caution, let me know...I`m a bit of a newbie. Thanks again!

[AK0R]

Re: Jetway J694AS

i use 0.8mm solder. i dont see the problem with 0.6mm, should be fine if not better. looks like you got lead free solder?

I use 0.032" (0.8mm) for fine work (like motherboards) and 0.062" (1.6mm) for heavier work (like power supplies). And no, he doesn't have lead-free solder. That's what the "40" is in 60/40. 60% tin and 40% lead is the most common amalgam (alloy) of solder, although others are possible (I've used 65/35, and seen but not used 70/30).

SkinnyBonesJones: I hope you checked that you got rosin-core solder, and not acid-core. This might seem obvious, but if the shopkeeper thought he could dump some acid-core solder on an unsuspecting customer, or just didn't know better, it would be very bad for your board.

[linuxguru]

Re: Jetway J694AS

63/37 (63% tin, 37% lead) is better than 60/40 for desoldering and removing caps, as well as clearing the through-holes - it flows easier at lower temperatures, which also retards oxidation and laminate damage. Go with 65/35 if that's available.

[skinnybonesjones]

Happy New Year!

Thanks for all the help! I`ve been at the in-laws the last few days for New Year`s(no internet), so I didn`t get a chance to post. I replaced the old caps, and it was not easy...I`ve got a lot of respect for you guys. I think I need a hotter iron, since this one`s only 20W. Removing the caps was hard, but the needle technique to clear the holes worked good. Anyway, I soldered on the new caps, put the system back together, and started it up. When I turned it on and it didn`t explode, I felt relieved, but when Windows booted up, I felt even better.

This is the solder I used (701): http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/new_products/H-701.htm

I wanna say thanks to all of you for your help. I`ve been wondering for so long what was wrong with this computer, and it seems the new caps have done the trick. Now there is only one thing left that is mysterious with this board...

I have two new sticks of 512MB ECC PC133 SDRAM and each stick works fine in all 3 slots in my board, as long as they are alone. But when they are together, for a total of 1024MB, Windows will not boot. The system keeps restarting. I tried them both together in all combinations of slots, with no luck . When I take one out, the system starts up fine. I can`t figure out why, because this motherboard is supposedly ok for up to 1.5GB of SDRAM, both unbuffered and ECC. Also, when I enable ECC in BIOS, the system won`t POST even with 1 RAM stick.
So I have two sticks of 1024MB ECC memory, but am only able to use 512MB with ECC disabled. I ran memtest86 all night on both sticks (separately), and got zero errors, so it seems all DIMM slots are good, and both sticks are good, just don`t work together.

Here`s the link to the 2 sticks of RAM I have:http://www.crucial.com/store/MPartsp...N=CT64M72S4D7E
And here`s link for my motherboard specs:http://www.j-mark.com/PRODUCT/mb/694as.html

Any ideas why both these sticks don`t work together?

[Per Hansson]

Re: Jetway J694AS

Have you set the memory timings to 2T in the BIOS? Sounds like you need to relax your timings a bit...