Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

[tmcw]

I was curious about the lights (normally orange) in things like power strips and some wall switches (like cooker switches), and pilot lights in some equipment, like dishwashers - do they use much energy?

I understand they are often neon (the typically flickering variety), and if the molecules are being excited, some energy must be being applied to them.

So I dug out a plug-in energy meter, and plugged in a power strip with an orange light (presume neon), but it didn't register using any power, nor pulling any current.

Is it just that the amount of energy is so small that the meter can't detect it?

Or maybe my meter is faulty.

[budm]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

NEON bulb power consumption will be so small and your power meter does not have fine resolution to read it.

[redwire]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Neon lamps are about 0.25W on 240VAC, it's not enough energy to show up on a meter.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Kinda strange... which is easier...less power...cheaper...?

NE-2 bulb lit by 120VAC or a T3 1/4 LED lit by 120V (both with their respective ballasts)

Then the same at 220VAC?

I still see many neon bulbs around even today...

[redwire]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Red and yellow-green LED's aren't very efficient and need only 2V at several mA, so the dropping resistor makes a lot of heat. Double power wasted at 240VAC. Plus a rectifier diode, so more parts and it costs more than a neon lamp.
Even an LED at 4mA, it's 1/2W of wasted heat at 240V in the resistor (1/2 wave, annoying flicker).

Instead, I use high-brightness green LED's in my extension cords etc, they do great at under 1mA so you can use a small resistor.

NE-2 neons, most are rated about 3 year life (25,000 hours) when on all the time. If you give them 1/2 the current they are 1/2 as bright but last 8X longer. I find the chinese overdrive neon lamps and they fizzle out after a year.
Old neon lamp databook: https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...13caf43e3a.pdf

[eccerr0r]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Yeah I was implying that one NE-2 neon tends to be cheaper overall somehow, especially if you use compare with an LED with a capacitive dropper circuit which may tip the scale towards LED for longevity somewhat, though massively increases price.

NE-2 with full brightness resistive dropper: medium life, cheap, low power
NE-2 with low brightness resistive dropper: long life, cheap, very low power, low brightness
LED + resistive dropper: short life, cheap, medium power
LED + diode + resistive dropper, medium life, not so cheap, medium power
LED + capacitive dropper: long life, expensive, adjustable power

But when those neon bulbs that burn out... they typically are impossible to replace because they're typically very well embedded those switches...grr...

[redwire]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Once I got pissed off and did surgery, put a red LED in the rocker switch.
It was pretty difficult, not really worth it because the neon's lead wires are part of the switch...

I find it easier to buy a new rocker switch and add a resistor so the neon lamp gets less current, to last longer.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

lol yes, so sad when an integrated neon lamp flickers and dies... Probably more integration than the lamp itself that pisses me off - doesn't matter if it's neon or LED.

[redwire]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

I have like five power strips that are flickering and it's $0.44 for a new illuminated switch on Ali. Someday I will order new ones

[eccerr0r]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Dammit. have too many power strips that need their switches replaced, two of them the neon lamp is fine but the switch failed and one of the two the housing tabs broke, lol.

Then there's the others that the neon lamp simply exceeded its hours. Unfortunately they're all different sizes *sigh*

Wonder if it's worth replacing them at all or just live with the flickering until they finally go out completely. Then they shouldn't be consuming any power at all.

[stj]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

you can probably get 5 for a $ on aliexpress if you want to replace the switches.

[tmcw]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Thanks for the info guys.

Interesting that some of you say that you find the neons burn out, I don't think I've ever come across that, we have cooker/dishwasher wall switches that have been illuminated for nearly 20 years, and they're still going strong.

Having said that, the pilot light *inside* the dishwasher failed about a year ago, but when I took it out, the bulb looked ok, but the component (resistor) had turned to dust. I never got a replacement, as when I looked up the full correct replacement part, it was something ridiculous like €20-€30, so we've been coping without the light.

Can someone tell me what the resistor would have been? Is it worth trying to rebuild the light? I still have the whole assembly, with bulb, housing, wiring, connectors.

Or if I wanted to go the LED DIY route, what do I need to do? We're on 240V.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

If you go with the LED light bulb route you must get the current limiting resistance correct if not you will burn out the LED light because of high current

The neon light quality is sometimes very questionable because I have bought some that where not very good did not last more than about a year

Just put a switch with out a lamp of any kind and put the lamp next to the switch so when your lamp goes bad just replace the lamp just a thought

[stj]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

post a photo of the lamp - i find it hard to believe a neon could incinerate a resistor unless the resistor dropped in value first and made the neon arc.

[tmcw]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Here it is, you're right, I'm a liar (it's been a long time, I'd forgotten), the resistor is still ok, it's the part the other side of the resistor from the bulb that got fried, whatever it is.

The yellow thing to the right is just remnants of resin/plastic that was used to pack/seal the assembly into the clear capsule at the top.

[stj]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

i have no idea what the hell that was!!!!!!

i also dont understand the wiring, the resistor is across the neon but it should be inline with it.
*unless* the brick was a capacitor and the resistor was to discharge it - but that would be a really stupid way to drive a neon!!

if the black wires are just fed with mains then just get a neon with a resistor to replace it.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

i have no idea what the hell that was!!!!!!

i also dont understand the wiring, the resistor is across the neon but it should be inline with it.
*unless* the brick was a capacitor and the resistor was to discharge it - but that would be a really stupid way to drive a neon!!

if the black wires are just fed with mains then just get a neon with a resistor to replace it.

I am wondering the same thing that might some type of capacitor and if this is the case something happened to that capacitor

Because if you hook a neon light to the mains with no inline resistor it would blow the neon light completely out

[redwire]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Some neon indicators have a resistor across the lamp, plus the one in series. It helps the lamp go out completely as some circuits have stray leakage currents/capacitance that can keep it lit dim and confuse people. That red phenolic, it looks like a terminal strip? There should be a second resistor somewhere.

A neon lamp across mains will explode if you don't use a current-limiting resistor. I tried that once by accident.

The resistor can be from 10k-330k ohms, to give 0.3-3mA. It depends on the size of the lamp and if it's the high brightness type i.e NE-2H.
The old NE-2/A1A was 1" and around 0.7mA

Stubby little 10mm neons popular now A1B are 0.3mA these are the ones that are overdriven and don't last in power bars. Ali has complete replacements, some neon or LED for $0.85 so cheapest to buy a new one, or do surgery on the old one.

[stj]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

the resistor for 220-240v is often 220k

btw, a neon acts like a high voltage zener or gdt,
when it hits the right voltage the gas conducts and it goes from open-circuit to a total short.
they used to be used as over-voltage discharge devices instead of spark-gaps in some crt monitors.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Orange lights - energy usage (power strips, wall switches)

Interesting, probably should limit the current more for the neon lamps that I do have to make them last longer, a lot of the times they don't need to be all that bright for them to tell that the power is on. I don't mind the flickering that much, but when the duty cycle is less than 75% it's not doing a good job at telling me when the power is on.