UPS Wiring

[PlainBill]

Re: UPS Wiring

Well I'm going to have a heck of a time finding tha manual at the Sola website.

So follow the link I gave you and ask the nice person for the pdf of the manual. :roll:

Okay, so assuming the abtteries are dead, is there any way I can jumpstart the unit?

Why are you assuming the batteries are dead? Take a DMM and measure their voltage. Have you looked at the batteries and determined their voltage?

I know trying to recharge the batteries now might be useless but a wise man once told me that if you beat a dead horse long enough it will eventually make movements that resemble life.

If they are dead, hook up a battery charger and see if they take a charge. Miracles do happen. Last night Congress passed Health Care Reform legislation.

If the miracle doesn't come to pass, you can hook up any batteries of equivalent chemistry (probably lead-acid) and the proper voltage as a TEMPORARY measure.

Also the white going to green is the fault of whoever wired up the UPS in the first place. There are no other wires for the neutral to run along.

Either we have a failure to communicate, you don't understand wiring principles, you have gremlins at your house, or you are trying to bullshit me. Take a look at the picture. The Green wire from the UPS is ground. SOMEONE hooked the white wire from the dryer cord to it. You don't need a neutral wire, you need a ground wire for safety.

PlainBill

[Krankshaft]

Re: UPS Wiring

The green wire from the UPS should go to the bare copper wire as PB said. The neutral is not needed since unlike your dryer the UPS has no need for 120.

[pentium]

Re: UPS Wiring

But both wires go to the same place. Is it not wise to use the lower guage wires instead of the flimsy thin ground wire?
Okay, I'll try emailing that guy but I am doubtful I'll get a response and a 6mb PDF is too big for Gmail to handle.
As stated also, my DMM will be useless until I buy a new one or replace the probes on my current one.
Hmm, any specific battery charger? I got one for the car someplace here.

[PlainBill]

Re: UPS Wiring

But both wires go to the same place. Is it not wise to use the lower guage wires instead of the flimsy thin ground wire?

That is a valid point. Again, that is not what is causing the dead UPS; it is something that raises a red flag to an electrical inspector. Double flag, actually. Here in the USA under size ground wires have been banned for over 40 years.

Okay, I'll try emailing that guy but I am doubtful I'll get a response and a 6mb PDF is too big for Gmail to handle.

Be charming. Don't remind him that Canada won the Olympic Hockey title. There are many free sites that allow transferring large files. uousendit.com is one.

As stated also, my DMM will be useless until I buy a new one or replace the probes on my current one.

So borrow, buy, or steal a pair of probes. If Spock could make a computer from bear skins and stone knives, a pentium should be able to make some probles from tin foil and newspaper.

Hmm, any specific battery charger? I got one for the car someplace here.

What is the voltage rating of the batteries?

PlainBill

[pentium]

Re: UPS Wiring

The batteries are rated for 6V. They come in modules of ten (wired in series so you get 60V DC per module) and two modules fit into a box. (so each battery box I got outputs 120V DC)

[pentium]

Re: UPS Wiring

Nothing?
I can't leave this thing sitting in the laundry room much longer. Either I get help now or else it goes back into storage where the batteries will certainly become useless.

[PlainBill]

Re: UPS Wiring

Nothing?
I can't leave this thing sitting in the laundry room much longer. Either I get help now or else it goes back into storage where the batteries will certainly become useless.

Hey, some people have a life!! (I'm not one of them, but we'll ignore that).

So dig out your battery charger. If it's a 12 volt charger, hook it across two batteries in a module and plug the charger in. (Don't forget to observe polarity.) If the charger has an ammeter, does it show the batteries are charging? If it DOES show it is charging, leave it hooked up for at least 4 hours (ideally until the charge rate tapers off), then move to the next pair of batteries in the string until you get all of them charged. Then go to the the next string in the module.

By the way, once you get the battery pack charged, you might want to avoid touching the leads. 120 VDC packs a pretty good punch.

PlainBill

[PlainBill]

Re: UPS Wiring

Note that I wouldn't do it that way. I'd take my Kill A Watt, Variac, isolation transformer, and a rectifier bridge from a power supply. I'd plug the Kill A Watt into the outlet, the variac into the Kill A Watt, use the variac to adjust the voltage to the isolation transformer; the isolation transformer would feed the rectifier bridge, and the DC output of the bridge would be hooked across the battery pack. Then using the Kill A Watt to monitor current, I'd slowly increase the voltage until the battery pack was charging. If I maxed out the variac before the current started rising, I'd stick a light bulb in series with the feed to the battery pack (to limit current surge), and try charging only one module at a time.

PlainBill

[pentium]

Re: UPS Wiring

Hmm. Something is wrong.
When my charger is connected to a very, very dead battery the needle stays at the bottom of the guage and does not rise up to the apporpriately scaled part of the chart (I can charge at 2 and 6 amp rates so I got two "dead" and "charged" points). Right now it is doing that to every cell set that I have tried.
This is not promising. You think there is any way to trick the UPS into powering up so the integrated charging system can give it a shot at charging? It must all be controlled by a relay or something, right?

[PlainBill]

Re: UPS Wiring

Hmm. Something is wrong.
When my charger is connected to a very, very dead battery the needle stays at the bottom of the guage and does not rise up to the apporpriately scaled part of the chart (I can charge at 2 and 6 amp rates so I got two "dead" and "charged" points). Right now it is doing that to every cell set that I have tried.
This is not promising. You think there is any way to trick the UPS into powering up so the integrated charging system can give it a shot at charging? It must all be controlled by a relay or something, right?

That is the symptom of a dead gel-cell.

One infamous experiment I tried involved hooking a light bulb in series with the input of a bridge rectifier, then hooking the DC output of the bridge across a 6 volt gel-cell. This was plugged into my variac and I cranked the output up to roughly 140 volts. This means the peak voltage across the cell was about 200 volts DC!!! The bulb didn't even glow. Eventually it broke down the insulating layer on the electrodes of the battery and I was finally able to get it to take a charge at approximately the recommended charging rate. I then switched to a conventional charger, then put the battery into a 350 VA UPS, let it charge overnight, then plugged in a small load and unplugged it from the wall. The 'rejuvenated' battery lasted less than a minute. Not an auspicious sign.

The easiest way to 'trick' the UPS into starting up is to hook 10 ea 12 volt car batteries in series to the battery terminals.

PlainBill

[stj]

Re: UPS Wiring

would one of those "desulfer" circuits designed to regenerate liquid battery's do any good on a gel cell?

[PlainBill]

Re: UPS Wiring

would one of those "desulfer" circuits designed to regenerate liquid battery's do any good on a gel cell?

I don't know. It depends on the mechanism that destroyed the battery. Gel cells have an additional layer of complexity (the gelling agent) that may affect this. Given the cost and life of UPS batteries I would say this is certainly worth investigating.

The only thing that discourages me from trying is the thought that if the circuit truly works, a UPS would be the ideal environment for it. I would be expecting Sola, APC, Triplite, etc to be touting their new, improved design which offers extended battery life.

PlainBill

[pentium]

Re: UPS Wiring

Okay then. I guess I can write this iff as an irrepairable unit as there's no way I'll ever find a set of 40 new 6V cells for a dime a dozen.

[stj]

Re: UPS Wiring

I would be expecting Sola, APC, Triplite, etc to be touting their new, improved design which offers extended battery life.

PlainBill

i wouldnt, any more that car company's offering petrol vaporizers or hydrogen-seperation tanks.

i think the big ups company's make a lot of money from battery sets & service-contracts.

i know a guy working for a semi-government unit that has a lot of computer gear.
they pay 10x the true value for all there stuff (ram, battery's etc) because a clause in the service contracts say's EVERYTHING DOWN TO REPLACING A FUSE must use approved components.

[PlainBill]

Re: UPS Wiring

i wouldnt, any more that car company's offering petrol vaporizers or hydrogen-seperation tanks.

i think the big ups company's make a lot of money from battery sets & service-contracts.

i know a guy working for a semi-government unit that has a lot of computer gear.
they pay 10x the true value for all there stuff (ram, battery's etc) because a clause in the service contracts say's EVERYTHING DOWN TO REPLACING A FUSE must use approved components.

Marketing. "Buy the New improved APC Genius-UPS with our exclusive Eterna-Cells. We guarantee 5 years of service between battery replacements. Note: Eterna-cells are not compatible with older UPS." Managment would go for it because of the improved sales this year. They don't give a hoot about sales in 5 years - they will be retired by then.

When additional UPS' are needed, instead of staying with the old technology, customers will be buying the new ones because of lower maintenance and greater reliability. Geeks will do the same. Some won't- they're the ones that think a UPS is the guy in the brown truck.

PlainBill

[Krankshaft]

Re: UPS Wiring

Sure keep junking your UPSs I'll be scooping them up for practically nothing.

I love getting 170 dollar UPSs for 20 bucks when all they need is a new set of batts. Their not powering on dead as a doornail failure mode makes most users think they're broken I love it .

I'm surprised they're junking the bigger UPS units I would think the larger units purchase cost would exceed the cost of replacement batteries. Unless your stupid enough to buy from the original manufacturer of course then I can see that.

[pentium]

Re: UPS Wiring

I understand this IS a seven year old thread, but in the end (jesus christ I never throw anything out) I got it running.

Okay then. I guess I can write this iff as an irrepairable unit as there's no way I'll ever find a set of 40 new 6V cells for a dime a dozen.

Lmao, in reality they were all 12V cells. Each battery tray has 10 cells (120v DC). Two trays run in series. Two sets of two in parallel. Roughly 240V DC with a scary amount of amps.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...d/IMG_6676.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...d/IMG_6675.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...d/IMG_6678.jpg

With new connections in the recycling industry I was able to find used but still good cells in bulk and was able to rebuild all four trays. Having used other UPS systems in the meantime I learned that most UPS units will not come up if the battery side is no good.
With the batteries replaced it was reassembled and the breaker thrown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI1EJmD3IJQ

The harmony of the fans alone was bittersweet music to my ears.
So there we have it. MY original problem was simply all the batteries had to be replaced...

[eccerr0r]

Re: UPS Wiring

All my UPS need new batteries, and battery packs aren't cheap

I need 3x6V12A and 12V7A packs...

I was annoyed that the first set of 6V12A packs I used in my UPS had problems in a year, and completely dead and gone by 2... *sigh* but the UPS actually works...