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Old 06-12-2013, 09:16 PM   #1
Pentium4
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Default What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I always stick to the top 5 when recapping stuff, but some bad cap brands don't seem as bad as they seem. I've seen lots of Taicon and Elite capacitors handle a lot of heat for a long time and still hold their specs well. Taicon in some hold hot running PSU's, and Elite caps on the output filtering of monitor power boards that are really discolored from getting so hot and the Elite caps are almost never bulging and usually pretty low on ESR still. But doesn't Taicon have some ties to nichicon?
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

if a cap doesn't have one of the autographs in my signature below, I don't put it in a customer's equipment! (or my own)

I make a crazy profit on recapping expensive equipment, why would I want to cut corners on a cap that only costs me 25 - 75 cents in the first place?
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

You probably never got customers that believed you're screwing them if you use capacitors or parts that don't look like the original ones.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium4 View Post
I always stick to the top 5 when recapping stuff, but some bad cap brands don't seem as bad as they seem. I've seen lots of Taicon and Elite capacitors handle a lot of heat for a long time and still hold their specs well. Taicon in some hold hot running PSU's, and Elite caps on the output filtering of monitor power boards that are really discolored from getting so hot and the Elite caps are almost never bulging and usually pretty low on ESR still. But doesn't Taicon have some ties to nichicon?
Elite capacitors are horrible. Maybe not so much in the voltage doubler of an ATX SMPS (even Fuhjyyu and CapXon last a while there) but they have numerous failures in harder applications. I think you were fortunate that they lasted in a monitor for you. Then again, the quality of Taiwanese capacitors is not consistent. Sometimes even Fuhjyyus and CapXons last years without going out of spec (most of the time not so, though). The quality is simply not consistent. But if the heat levels are kept down (internal heating, ripple current, and external heating, ambient temperature), then perhaps the problematic aluminimum foil won't ever "ruin" the electrolyte and the capacitors could last. Still, I'd reach avoidance of Elite capacitors at all costs.

Taicon capacitors are probably okay in a SMPS or low heat/low stress environment but Taicon's "HD" (AKA their HF series) series is notorious for failing on motherboards within 3 years' time (not 24/7 use). I would say they're about equal to similar-tier Taiwanese capacitors, IE Teapo, Jamicon, Ltec, maybe OST, etc. For what it's worth, Teapo and Jamicon do obtain their electrolyte from Japan (at least I trust them on that much, and probably Taicon as well, not sure about any of the other Taiwanese or Chinese brands, though), even if the rest of the materials they use are of underpar quality.

The most underrated bad cap brand... probably Taicon but then they are somewhat related to Nichicon so that might be an unfair assessment to procure. To be honest, since Teapo gets so much hate and since I often see Teapo last a long time in old and well designed PSUs, I might just say Teapo is exactly that. Yes, though, I also think it's always a bad idea to use anything but Japanese capacitors (or capacitors whose materials are obtained in the US or UK).

Quote:
I make a crazy profit on recapping expensive equipment, why would I want to cut corners on a cap that only costs me 25 - 75 cents in the first place?
It's good from a business standpoint. Not only do those 25 - 75 cents add up when millions of capacitors are being produced but using lower quality parts like capacitors assure that failure will be inevitable after the warranty expires so more profits will be turned. This is why you still see bad capacitors being used today. Not that I condone such a bad practice...

As far as the best Japanese capacitors go (lytics wise), I'd go with Panasonic/Matsushita... I believe they have the lowest failure rate out of all the Japanese brands.

EDIT: That's four series, KZG, KZJ, KZV, and TMV.

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Yeah, I never said I keep them, just that they don't seem to always be bulging every time I see them (Like CapXon, Fuhjyyu, Teapo) I've only ever reused Elite caps on the primaries of old non PFC PSU's.

It's so hard to pick a favorite among the top Japanese brands but I've been really leaning more towards Rubycon lately. They seem to be the best with size/ripple rating/heat tolerance ratio. With Panasonic in second
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
As far as the best Japanese capacitors go (lytics wise), I'd go with Panasonic/Matsushita... I believe they have the lowest failure rate out of all the Japanese brands.
You have to figure it on a per-capita basis

Chemi-con makes more capacitors then all of the other Japanese makers combined, and with the exception of one series, they have been flawless!
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

yeah I agree, all else being equal, gotta love those Rubycons!

my Japanese friend who has over 100 patents and works for Sony puts it this way:

"As in beer, when you make capacitors, it's the water!"

(and Rubycon's main plant in Japan sits on a protected spring)

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Old 07-16-2013, 01:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

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Originally Posted by theOracle View Post
You have to figure it on a per-capita basis

Chemi-con makes more capacitors then all of the other Japanese makers combined, and with the exception of one series, they have been flawless!
KZG is their worst, KZJ sucks too though. Otherwise, Chemi Con makes awesome caps, no denying that
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:57 PM   #9
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Lightbulb Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium4 View Post
I always stick to the top 5 when recapping stuff, but some bad cap brands don't seem as bad as they seem. I've seen lots of Taicon and Elite capacitors handle a lot of heat for a long time and still hold their specs well. Taicon in some hold hot running PSU's, and Elite caps on the output filtering of monitor power boards that are really discolored from getting so hot and the Elite caps are almost never bulging and usually pretty low on ESR still. But doesn't Taicon have some ties to nichicon?
I've seen quite a few bad Elite capacitors, especially those used as the main filter/smoothing capacitors (often shows no signs but the capacitor was dead). The ones (not any of the big 5 Japanese brands) that I find very rarely go bad are TK (Toshin Kogyo), Elna, NIC, MaxCap, Su'scon and Nicon.

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Old 07-16-2013, 10:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Teapo is fine in well designed, well cooled, and not overloaded power supplies.
For example, I'm sure my In Win Commander III 800W will last longer than the computer it's powering.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I'd have to go with Teapo and Samwha... They can be hit and miss, and I've seen Samwha caps last when they're used under spec.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

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Teapo is fine in well designed, well cooled, and not overloaded power supplies.
For example, I'm sure my In Win Commander III 800W will last longer than the computer it's powering.
It won't. It has a Teapo right next to got FET.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I second that. Teapo SC/SEK caps lasted 5-6 years in my PSU before giving up. I am typing from the same PC which is still working 24/7 with a new old stock PSU (from 2010), without even the slightest sign of failed caps on the mainboard (which mostly has Panasonic and Sanyo).
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Quote:
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I'd have to go with Teapo and Samwha... They can be hit and miss, and I've seen Samwha caps last when they're used under spec.
They seem to be too inconsistent, but I think you are right if they are cooled well
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I've never seen a Teapo or Su'scon fail. Also, older Lexmark inkjets have "Newcon" caps in the power supplies (the power supplies are made by "Skynet"). They seem to do fine.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Never seen a Teapo fail?! The most common failures seem to be their 8mm SC caps
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium4 View Post
Never seen a Teapo fail?! The most common failures seem to be their 8mm SC caps
I*think they are the second most common brand that I*see in the stuff I take apart (after Su'scon). And yet, they all still seem to be fine.

P.S.:*There go the random asterisks again. They don't show up as I'm typing the post - they get inserted during the submisssion.

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Old 07-17-2013, 03:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

That's strange I have had some Teapo's with no bulging but very high ESR, that's why I always replace them. They are better than your typical junk though
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Well, I just lost a long rant I was going to write about my suspicion that 8mm Teapos are less reliable not because of a manufacturing defect but because Teapo derate their endurance ratings (by 1,000 hours) based on not only case sizes but based on the down size of standard case sizes that would otherwise be 3,000 hours @ 105*C (Teapos are rated at 1,000 hours-3,000 hours @ 105*C, so many of those 8mm Teapos are derated from 10x12.5 standard case sizes which means they're rated at 1,000 hours... maybe that's why they fail so quickly? G-Luxon is the only other brand I know that does that and they merged with Teapo in 2006... 5x11-10x12.5 Teapos by standard sizes are rated at 2,000 hours, 10x15 and higher 3,000 hours). 8mm Teapos are often found in the +5VSB output, or near heatsinks, diodes, resistors, coils, or in poorly ventilated and cooled printer and LCD power supplies..... is that what you mean with respect to 8mm Teapo SC failures?

Of course, I could be reading too much into nothing and it might just be inconsistent quality as with any other Taiwanese brand, or it could be a dive in reliability since the G-Luxon merger. And I know the endurance ratings aren't wear out tests so they aren't truly valid. I just noticed that Teapo and G-Luxon derate the endurance rating not just because of case sizes but because of non standard case sizes which would otherwise have the standard and full endurance rating, which hurts their longevity... and there have been ample Su'scon failures documented on this forum. They might just last in low stress applications.

More simply, the point Heihachi might have been trying to make (I can only speak for myself) is that while Teapo's bad batches are obviously bad, their good batches are of merit and can last as long as 30,000-50,000+ hours given the right conditions (not a surprise since to my knowledge, Teapo obtain their electrolyte in Japan, so the aluminum foil/cans are the real problem).

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Old 07-17-2013, 05:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I'm rather surprised that Panasonic caps are held in such high regard here. I've recapped a couple Panasonic TV's, and the Panasonic caps in them, while not bulging, were very under spec. The TV was about 10 years old at the time, but I've pulled out good caps on TV's twice that age.

For me, I prefer Nichicons or Rubycons.
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