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Old 06-11-2010, 11:10 PM   #41
POM_MJ
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ
You can use Nichicon HZ but Panasonic FM or better are good enough to replace Sacon FZ.
It's not common but in -some- circuits [**] taking ESR too low can cause problems so personally I would not replace FZ with anything better [lower ESR] than MBZ, WG, FM, FL, FJ or HM.
- But that's just me..

[**] Never seen it apply when caps are just being filters, but, in control circuits the volt drops across caps and their charge times are sometimes used as time delays or for dynamic biasing to turn IC functions on-off or establish set-points [trip points].
ESR can affect that volt drop and/or charge/discharge time.

So, if you KNOW the FZ is just a filter cap [and an FZ probably is] then and HZ should be fine.

Personally when I want ESR as low as HZ I'd use a polymer if at all possible because the 'extreme' lytics like HZ I suspect have more heat issues like KZG and KZJ. - Can't 'go poly' for some voltage/uF value though...

.
my problem is the replacement cap must not longer than 16mm.
(due to gap between PCB and GPU heatsink) and I can't find the other cap in this size (all I've found are 8x20mm.,10x20mm., or longer).
Ok, I will try to replace them with Nichicon HZ and see if it work.
thankyou.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:47 AM   #42
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ
[**] taking ESR too low can cause problems so personally I would not replace FZ with anything better [lower ESR] than MBZ, WG, FM, FL, FJ or HM.
- But that's just me..

[**] Never seen it apply when caps are just being filters, but, in control circuits the volt drops across caps and their charge times are sometimes used as time delays or for dynamic biasing to turn IC functions on-off or establish set-points [trip points].
ESR can affect that volt drop and/or charge/discharge time.

So, if you KNOW the FZ is just a filter cap [and an FZ probably is] then and HZ should be fine.
Thanks for you reply

I my guess is that FZ are filter caps but as i mentioned in the first post, i am not an electronic expert. Also the card was working fine after those two caps blasted, no bsod, no freezing in game, "hell yeah, did i mention i played like 2 hours of Just Cause 2 after those caps blow, as i thought the caps blown were in psu so didnt bothered to look for them".

So what will you advise now. Poly's or the new Panasonic. I want to go for poly as i dont want to come back to card replace any more caps. Also the panasonic are legit. As the shop i got them from order in quantity.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Quote:
Originally Posted by POM_MJ
my problem is the replacement cap must not longer than 16mm.
(due to gap between PCB and GPU heatsink) and I can't find the other cap in this size (all I've found are 8x20mm.,10x20mm., or longer).
Ok, I will try to replace them with Nichicon HZ and see if it work.
thankyou.
Mounting with long leads de-rates ESR a little bit.
[This will vary a LOT from cap to cap.] ... If you lay a cap on it's side [bend leads to mount laid over] that extra 1/2"-3/4" or so of lead length adds [.. as I recall ..] about 0.10 to the ESR. You can check by measuring ESR with the ESR meter leads connected to the normal solder point on the cap leads then check again where the actual solder point will be as mounted.

.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:40 PM   #44
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

polys would be best but overkill.
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:07 PM   #45
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

I concur. You could use the polys but the panny FL would do the job just fine.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:41 PM   #46
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

My point was that when a cap won't fit and you have to lay one on it's side or do a 'stilt mount' [long legs] then choose one that's over-kill on the ESR to get back near the 'stock' ESR.

Really need an ESR meter to verify for sure what you'll end up with but it's a usable work around in some situations.

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Old 06-16-2010, 10:58 AM   #47
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Thanks alot guys,

I have replaced the caps with Panasonic ones, lets see what happen. Also it was very difficult to clean the holes for new caps. the iron i had was not good enough or the gpu uses some tin which needs very high temp. The tooth pick tip worked very well for getting it open.
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:20 AM   #48
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Nice information here.

I would like to know if there is a difference between fz79 1500uf 6.3v and fz77 1500uf 6.3v capacitors? Need to know before purchasing replacements.

Thanks.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:35 PM   #49
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghampton View Post
Nice information here.

I would like to know if there is a difference between fz79 1500uf 6.3v and fz77 1500uf 6.3v capacitors? Need to know before purchasing replacements.

Thanks.
The 79 and 77 are likely some sort of date/lot codes. Sacon only published one datasheet for the FZ series. So, whatever difference the extra numbers makes should not effect your selection of a replacement capacitor.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:37 PM   #50
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Agreed. These would be fine for both.
http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...products_id=40
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:03 PM   #51
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

I need clarificqtion about somehing:
All ploymer caps without vent cuts on tops arw true polymer. But caps that look like polymers buthave vent slits are fake polymers and really electrlytics but with a diffrent color case??? Or how does that work?
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:29 PM   #52
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
I need clarificqtion about somehing:
All ploymer caps without vent cuts on tops arw true polymer. But caps that look like polymers buthave vent slits are fake polymers and really electrlytics but with a diffrent color case??? Or how does that work?
All electrolytic caps should have vents as a safety feature. Those of a smaller size (<6mm diameter) often do not.

Polymer caps do not need vents. That said, some have them, like the older yellow Fujitsu caps.

Polymer caps often have no plastic sleeve, as the information about the cap can be printed on the top of it. However, some polymer caps, like Sanyo Oscaon SP do have plastic sleeves.

Electrolytic caps usually do have plastic sleeves. Exceptions to this include the infamous Sacon FZ. However, it's not just confined to the unreliable brands. Some older Nichicon HD caps do not have plastic sleeves either.

So, short version. The best way to tell is to look up the datasheet for a particular capacitor. However, if a cap is 8mm or larger in diameter and does not have a vent, you can reasonably assume it to be a poly cap.

I believe that Sacon FZ are called "fake polymer" because their markings closely resemble that of Chemicon PS* capacitors. In product photos, it may be hard to spot the difference. Fortunately, I haven't seen FZ in any new hardware as of late...

Last edited by yyonline; 10-05-2010 at 10:31 PM..
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:45 AM   #53
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Sleeves don't really tell you anything either way.
Both Lytic and Poly can come with or without sleeves.
- Sleeves are just a way to mark the caps.
Originally no one used sleeves.
Then for a long time using sleeves was the cheaper & easier way to mark them.
Now improvements in direct printers for caps is changing that back again.
Thing is most manufacturers already own sleeving equipment that works fine and the small savings by direct printing instead isn't worth retooling their facility.
.

Yes, Sacon FZ are lytics -apparently- deliberately made to resemble good poly caps.
I've seen blue marked Sacon FZ that look just like Chemicon Poly -and- black marked Sacon FZ that look just like Nichicon Poly.
I think they even change the font when they change the color.
One of the threads in here has photos with both blue and black FZ on the same motherboard. If I remember right it was an EVGA board.
- FZ usually show up on video cards but EVGA, Biostar and Jetway have used them on motherboards. [That I know of, there may be others.]
.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:18 PM   #54
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Default Re: 1500uf 6.3v cap substitute

Here it is....
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpos...9&postcount=21
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