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Old 11-18-2017, 03:30 PM   #21
stj
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

these need to be very good caps,
next time i do an xbox i will try a polymod - previously i used MBZ or MCZ.
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Old 11-18-2017, 09:26 PM   #22
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Hey guys,
I spent a few years installing modchips and repairing original X-Boxes, under my old Forum name of "Darkmatter".
I used to post regularly on the now gone llamma.com Forum.
When replacing the clock capacitor, make sure you check the surface of the main board where the cap was situated. Nine times out of ten it will have leaked. You need to clean that area thoroughly, with isopropyl alcohol or methelated spirits.
Have a very close look at the tracks coming from the clock caps mounting holes to see if any of the tracks have been corroded. Use a magnifying glass or similar with good lighting when you check it out.
If you do find tracks eaten, then you will need to repair the tracks.
The cap can be replaced with a super cap as shown in the link below:

[URL=http://www.jaycar.com.au/22f-2-5vdc-super-capacitor/p/RE6702[/URL]

Once again: "Insert Link" option not working properly.

If you're not living in Australia you can try Mouser or EBay. But make sure its rated voltage is 2.5 volts. You could use a 3V one, but nothing higher.
I found that the X-Box, after using the 22F cap, allowed it to keep its clock for over 3 weeks with the X-Box unplugged entirely.
If you do replace it with a higher capacitance cap, you may need to lay the cap on its side, and bend the leads accordingly for it to fit below the drives.

I have found many common faults with X-Boxes, but overall thay were pretty reliable performers.
Some faults and preventative maintenance issues I've listed below:
(1) The two pin mains input socket on the PSU was extremely notorious for cracked and dry joints. You're best off re-soldering them regardless if you've never had any problems with this issue.
(2) The varistor close to the mains input socket was also a major problem.
The varistor was either blue or tan in color depending upon the version of the PSU.
The picture below shows the destruction of the mains fuse and varistor when it decides to let fly:



X-Boxes have been known to catch fire due to the varistor self destructing, so if you ever have to replace one, make sure you encapsulate it with heat-shrink tubing. It will keep the flame out within the heat-shrink and not blacken any other components nearby.
It was strongly suspected that the varistor's internal molecular structure changed every time it copped spikes and other transients, therefore it reached a point that it was no longer doing its job and explodes due to it shorting out.
This fault was more prevalent on X-Box PSU's that had the faulty joints on the mains socket.
The replacement type was: JNR 14D241K Though my replacements were made by JNR, you can source elsewhere provided you use 14D241K as your reference.
One last thing: Most spike suppression power boards and other PSU's, especially the cheaper Chinese ones use varistors and they are also prone to the molecular change within the device. It makes it worse if you live in a country, province or town where the mains voltage is not well regulated.
Unfortunately switch-mode power supplies in nearly all appliances contribute to the mains problems.
(3) Another fault is being described in this thread. Caps bulging on the motherboard.
New caps should be rated at 10WV, working temp rating of 105 and MUST be low ESR high ripple types such as: TX or WL-R Series caps
(4) On earlier versions of X-Boxes, there was a problem of corrosion found on two particular spots on the motherboard. This corrosion was caused at the factory, and over time, corroded even further until the motherboard failed. Versions that were affected: V1.0 to V1.3. No later versions were found with this issue.
Here are the symptoms due to corroded tracks:
(a) The X-Box fails to power down using the power on/off button on the front panel. The power cord has to be pulled out to shut it down.
(2) As soon as the power cord is plugged in, the X-Box powers up without pressing either the on/off or eject buttons.
(3) While the X-Box is on for a certain amount of time, it shuts down by itself for no reason. The time factor before shut down can vary wildly.

The only fix for this is to bypass the affected tracks using Kynar wire.
If anyone needs help in this regard, then please PM me with your email addy and I'll send them my tutorial on how to wire things up and at what points.
Other tutorials:
* Varistor repair
* Voltage change: From 110V AC to 240V AC and vice-versa (Not all versions of PSU's).
* Version 1.6 PSU SMD transistor equivalent replacement
* Headphone amplifier creation and installation
* Version 1.6 "No Video" fix
* I used to have a hard disk drive activity LED tutorial but can't find it at the moment. I'll post it up if I find it
* I also had a tute to install color changing LED's within the ROM drives when ever the tray was open. It looked like fireworks were coming from inside the drive. I'll have to look for that as well.

Any questions regarding the original X-Boxes can you please put into the Forum discussion and not via a PM. Thanx.
By the way, I had extremely limited experience on X-Box 360's and any others manufactured after the original ones stopped production. Therefore I have little or no info I can share with you.
Regards,
Relayer

P.S. Sorry for the long arsed post...
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Higher ripple current is better, and lower ESR is also better in this case. You would ideally keep the capacitance and voltage ratings the same. These would work fine as replacements.
Thanks.
What about impedance? Lower is better?

Last edited by tudrojopsi; 11-20-2017 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relayer View Post
Hey guys,
...
(3) Another fault is being described in this thread. Caps bulging on the motherboard.
New caps should be rated at 10WV, working temp rating of 105 and MUST be low ESR high ripple types such as: TX or WL-R Series caps
...
So, you're saying I'm better off replacing my bulging 3300uF 6.3V caps with new 3300uF 10V caps rather than new caps with the original 3300uF 6.3V rating?

Is ESR=Impedance?
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:44 PM   #25
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

upping the voltage wont harm it - choose based on price etc.
and yes ESR / Impedence can be considered the same when reading datasheets.
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Quote:
Originally Posted by tudrojopsi View Post
Thanks.
What about impedance? Lower is better?
Impedance is the vector sum of capacitive reactance, inductive reactance, and ESR, which is nearly identical to ESR at the switching frequency of a motherboard CPU buck regulator. So lower is definitely better (in this case).

Of course upping the voltage rating wont harm anything, but generally the case size becomes larger as the voltage and capacitance rating of a capacitor increases and vice versa. These Xbox motherboards were silkscreened for 10mm diameter capacitors in the CPU VRM output, so it would help to stick to the original case size (and thereby the original capacitance and voltage ratings). But you could use larger capacitors if necessary (if the lead spacing / pitch would fit).

Quote:
(3) Another fault is being described in this thread. Caps bulging on the motherboard.
New caps should be rated at 10WV, working temp rating of 105 and MUST be low ESR high ripple types such as: TX or WL-R Series caps
(4) On earlier versions of X-Boxes, there was a problem of corrosion found on two particular spots on the motherboard. This corrosion was caused at the factory, and over time, corroded even further until the motherboard failed. Versions that were affected: V1.0 to V1.3. No later versions were found with this issue.
1.4 was affected by trace corrosion as well. See here. 1.4 uses the focus video encoding chip instead.

6.3V is not too low for this application because the Xbox CPUs Vcore voltage is only 1.7-1.75V or thereabouts. Its even safe to use 6.3V on the +5V CPU VRM input of the CPU, although upping the voltage there wouldnt be detrimental, I suppose (but again, on version 1.6 of the Xbox motherboards, that area is too only silkscreened for 10mm diameter capacitors). Again, you could use larger capacitors anyway, although it wouldnt look very tidy.

Just to clarify: The Nichicon HM capacitors were bulging and leaking on the original Xbox motherboards not because the voltage rating was too low but because they came from a bad batch of that series (with 2002-2004 datecodes in the case of the first Xbox), so all are eventually doomed to failure.
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:29 PM   #27
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Hello Wester547,
Thank you for clarifying the capacitor issue in regards to its working voltage.
Though when I used to replace those offending caps, I found that my 10 volt types had the same pitch as the 6.3 volt ones.

Thank you also for alerting me to the V1.4 trace fix.
I was not aware of it on that particular version.

I also never realized that my tutorial landed on another web site. I really thought that when llamma.com went defunct, it would have been lost forever.
I'm so glad that someone had the sense to relocate it.

I forgot to mention another fault with the Delta model of PSU's.
If R901 (22Ω 0.25W Fusible Resistor) goes open circuit, you may find that Q981 (N-Channel MOSFET STD1NC60 [TO-251 IPAK]) has shorted between Source and Drain. Often times Q981 is OK.
But if keeps blowing R901 and/or Q981, then the Chopper (Switching) Transformer has shorted turns on its primary side.
This was confirmed when I replaced the faulty tranny with a known working PSU, the faulty power supply fired up with no more issues.

I hope the above may help some one out.
Regards,
Relayer
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547
Its even safe to use 6.3V caps on the +5V CPU VRM input.
Fixed that typo.

Quote:
Transformer has shorted turns on its primary side.
This was confirmed when I replaced the faulty tranny with a known working PSU, the faulty power supply fired up with no more issues.
Wow, its really rare for transformers to go bad, except for flybacks in CRTs and LCDs. Although I suppose if the transformer becomes saturated due to other components failing that it could happen. It sounds like these faults are with the 240V version of the Delta PSU. There are two versions (240V and 120V) of the PSU (the 240V version has a Passive PFC on the primary side).
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:45 PM   #29
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Hello Wester547,

Quote:
its really rare for transformers to go bad, except for flybacks in CRTs and LCDs
Agree. In all my time in the past when I was working with TV's or computer monitors, I only ever come across one switching transformer with shorted turns. And from memory it was in a Sharp portable CRT telly.
Heaps of flyback trannys with shorted turns, even the occasional CRT deflection yoke, but just the one Chopper X-former.

Quote:
It sounds like these faults are with the 240V version of the Delta PSU
True. Though I've had a fair share of 110V versions come through my work bench, but none with a faulty tranny.
Admittedly I've only come across three PSU's with this fault, and everyone of them the 240V version, and only the Delta types.

Quote:
There are two versions (240V and 120V) of the PSU
You are 100% correct.
Though the voltages can be changed to suit either 240 or 110 volt mains supplies.
Here's how it can be done:











By the way, a few years back I was able to fit a Delta PSU into an X-Box 360 power supply case. I had to mod it a fair bit, and now I use it as a 5V and 3.3V supplement power supply.





As you can see, I had to add a small project case to extend it, as it was a fairly tight fit in the 360 case. Plus the small transformer had to be fitted externally for the same lack of space.
Regards,
Relayer
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Old 05-13-2018, 06:06 PM   #30
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Higher ripple current is better, and lower ESR is also better in this case. You would ideally keep the capacitance and voltage ratings the same. These would work fine as replacements.
Thanks again.
Unfortunately, The badcaps store doesn't have them anymore.

I've found the following three caps at digikey - copy and paste the full url:
Code:
www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/58?FV=fff40002,fff8000a,fff8000b,fff8000c,fff804fb,fff80532,fff80533,fff80010,fff800ed,fff80256,fff80298,fff802a3,fff80008,fff80054,fff80009,1c0003,b8367d,b54000d,b54000e,b540011,b540005,1f140000,mu3300F|2049,mu10V|2079,mu12V|2079,mu6.3V|2079,mu7.5V|2079,mu7V|2079,mu8V|2079,mu15 mOhms|2080,mu17 mOhms|2080,mu20 mOhms|2080,ffe0003a&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000001&page=1&stock=1&rohs=1&k=Electrolytic&pageSize=500&pkeyword=Electrolytic
or as a link (when putting the full url as a link it gets broken because of some chars in the url):
https://tinyurl.com/ycltcatz

Are they suitable? If so, which one will be best for this?

Thanks!

Last edited by tudrojopsi; 05-13-2018 at 06:20 PM.. Reason: The link got broken
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:45 AM   #31
stj
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

obsolete info.

read this thread.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...t=48951&page=3
start at post #53
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

I have a 1.6 board - does it make any difference?

Are there really no suitable caps for this on digikey or any other store?
How does 5x1000uF replaces 3x3300uF?

If I understood correctly, this replacement is done because "Ultra low ESR" caps are needed and are not available anymore.
How do I recognize an "Ultra low ESR" cap? Should I only consider the ESR value, or maybe also Impedance or Ripple-Current@Low/High-Frequency or something else? For ESR, how low is "Ultra low"?

Thanks.

Last edited by tudrojopsi; 05-15-2018 at 03:07 PM..
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

no difference between boards as long as it has the extra spaces.

the original xbox used 5x 1500uf, and poly's are so much better that you can drop the value by a third and still get better performance.

ultra-low esr caps, panasonic FL, rubycon MBZ/MCZ or nichicon HM/HN are all VERY low esr, but not made anymore.
that's why pc motherboards all use poly's around the cpu now.

Last edited by stj; 05-15-2018 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:41 AM   #34
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

I have 5 bad 3300uF caps.
Please see the below pictures. You can see the bad caps on the top right part of the main board in the first picture.
Can you please advise what can I do?
Thanks!

My board:


One of the caps:


Other side of the cap:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg XvhVCKW.jpg (728.8 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg PhnLFxx.jpg (467.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg WpvLAnI.jpg (393.1 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by Per Hansson; 05-20-2018 at 03:33 AM.. Reason: Offsite images uploaded
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

are they all 3300 / 6.3v?
and 10mm diameter?
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
are they all 3300 / 6.3v?
and 10mm diameter?
Yes, they are all the same.
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:19 AM   #37
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

these around the cpu,
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/alumi...itors/8392133/

these for the other 2 if you have 25mm height.
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/alumi...itors/7660044/

if you can only fit 20mm then these.
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/alumi...itors/1458528/

it's possible you could use the 2000uf polymers to replace all 5, but i'm not sure it's been tried yet.
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:57 AM   #38
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

Don't forget to replace the smaller ones in that blown area!
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Old 05-22-2018, 04:43 AM   #39
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

btw, keep an eye on the supercap near the ribbon cable - it's gold coloured.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:08 AM   #40
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Default Re: XBOX Original - Won't power on

@stj & @Stefan Payne thanks very much to both of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
these around the cpu,
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/alumi...itors/8392133/

these for the other 2 if you have 25mm height.
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/alumi...itors/7660044/

if you can only fit 20mm then these.
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/alumi...itors/1458528/

it's possible you could use the 2000uf polymers to replace all 5, but i'm not sure it's been tried yet.
Sorry to bump this after such a long time, but this website doesn't ship to Israel, and being the procrastinator that I am, I didn't do anything about it in the last 18 months .
I really want to fix it now, though.
Do you have another suggestion for caps that I can order to Israel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
Don't forget to replace the smaller ones in that blown area!
I don't understand what you mean. Can you please explain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
btw, keep an eye on the supercap near the ribbon cable - it's gold coloured.
Again, I don't understand what you mean. Can you please explain?

Thanks!
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