What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

[japlytic]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I would vote for OST as the most underrated "bad cap" brand, and I have seen them in a number of satellite receivers from a particular manufactuer issued by a Pay TV company.

As my signature shows, I would prefer Chemi-Con, with the only exception being audio grade units.

[Heihachi_73]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

What about Jamicon? I see fare less of these than I do with Teapo/OST/Fuhjyyu/CapXon in PSUs.

[Mrx3750]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Jamicons are probably the worst brand I've seen. I'd give CapXon's a year at least, Jamicons probably less then that.

[Wester547]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Well... the 85*C (1,000 hours rated) Jamicon SSes on all my Sound Blaster Live! Value cards are all still going strong... but even crap like Wincap holds up well there (those too are 1,000 hour 85*C capacitors).... the Jamicons that I usually see fail are on +5VSB or aren't in well ventilated and cooled applications and often, being GP, have a very low ripple rating. I definitely don't think Jamicon is worse than CapXon, though.... I have seen more failed CapXons than an other commonly known brand...

[Mrx3750]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Back in 2008 I took apart three JVC 27" TV's, they were made in 2001, 2003, and 2004 and had basically the same chassis.

The one made in 2004 had Jamicons, and they were almost all under spec. The CRT was also shot. The one made in 2001 was in the best shape of the three. It had those LE branded caps.

[Pentium4]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I would put Jamicon leaps and bounds ahead of CrapXon. I've seen Bestec mix the two of them, I found one unstable, turns out the CapXon on the -12V and 5V rail were bulging, but not the Jamicon on the 12V and 5VSB (System was a Prescott P4, so 12V heavy)

[larrymoencurly]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

How good is AsiaX? Because I've had several old Antecs (Channel Well) where the 2000uF, 10V cap in the +5Vstandby circuit failed if it was Teapo or Koshin but never when it was AsiaX (not just physical appearance but also capacitance and ESR).

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

AsiaX is just rebranded Fuhjyyu. Hit and miss, leaning on the "miss" side.

[lexwalker]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I would vote for OST as the most underrated "bad cap" brand, and I have seen them in a number of satellite receivers from a particular manufactuer issued by a Pay TV company.

As my signature shows, I would prefer Chemi-Con, with the only exception being audio grade units.

I've see quite a few bad OST capacitors, particularly in some cramped FSP PSUs. Possibly ventilation and cooling would be a contributing factor.

Well... the 85*C (1,000 hours rated) Jamicon SSes on all my Sound Blaster Live! Value cards are all still going strong... but even crap like Wincap holds up well there (those too are 1,000 hour 85*C capacitors).... the Jamicons that I usually see fail are on +5VSB or aren't in well ventilated and cooled applications and often, being GP, have a very low ripple rating. I definitely don't think Jamicon is worse than CapXon, though.... I have seen more failed CapXons than an other commonly known brand...

For some odd reason, Creative and Ensoniq loves to use G-Luxon capacitors. I find plenty of them on EMU docks and Sound Blaster series soundcards.

[c_hegge]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

AsiaX is just rebranded Fuhjyyu. Hit and miss, leaning on the "miss" side.

Yup, same goes for Jun Fu.

I would say Taicon are probably the 'best of the worst'. I haven't had too many problems with them. Nichicon's influence over them seems to have made them somewhat competent.

As for Teapo, I class them down with CapXon. They're somewhat better than Fuhjyyu/AsiaX/JunFu, but not by much.

[Wester547]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I've see quite a few bad OST capacitors, particularly in some cramped FSP PSUs. Possibly ventilation and cooling would be a contributing factor.

For some odd reason, Creative and Ensoniq loves to use G-Luxon capacitors. I find plenty of them on EMU docks and Sound Blaster series soundcards.

Err, I meant any other commonly known brand. G-Luxon on Sound Blaster card sucks... they might have been okay on old, low stress audio cards but that's it.

As for Teapo, I class them down with CapXon. They're somewhat better than Fuhjyyu/AsiaX/JunFu, but not by much.

I agree on the 'bad batches' of Teapo. But the 'good' batches of Teapo (for whatever they're worth, technically speaking, for the lower purity of Taiwanese aluminum foil, you can't really have a 'good' batch) seem to do quite well, about as well as a good lot of Taicon or Jamicon capacitors. However, I have seen far too many Taicon failures on motherboards to classify them as good. They might do well in Delta power supplies but so do Ltec...

[theokretes]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

The most underrated capacitor brand I'd say is probably ELNA or Vishay-Sprague.

Sprague still makes some hard-to-get axial capacitors (along with nichicon), and ELNA makes some of the best audio capacitors. Their RE3 general purpose series is still fantastic for recapping soundcards and synths even if they're not cerafine/silmics.
*On a side note, Nichicon capacitors always have incredible bass, must be something in the formula.

TEAPO/G-Luxon/OST/Su'scon/Jackcon/Wincap etc are total bottom of the barrel, always. If used in real-time applications such as audio, you can *hear* how they don't have any filtering/bass; even if you got lucky and they didn't come pre-bulged from the factory.

[Pentium4]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Teapo can do well in well cooled areas but I replace them on sight and I will only ever leave them in the primaries of non PFC PSU's

[mockingbird]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

The most underrated capacitor brand I'd say is probably ELNA or Vishay-Sprague.

Sprague still makes some hard-to-get axial capacitors (along with nichicon), and ELNA makes some of the best audio capacitors. Their RE3 general purpose series is still fantastic for recapping soundcards and synths even if they're not cerafine/silmics.
*On a side note, Nichicon capacitors always have incredible bass, must be something in the formula.

TEAPO/G-Luxon/OST/Su'scon/Jackcon/Wincap etc are total bottom of the barrel, always. If used in real-time applications such as audio, you can *hear* how they don't have any filtering/bass; even if you got lucky and they didn't come pre-bulged from the factory.

This is all very dubious and subject to anecdote. The fact is, given a blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two brands of caps used in an audio circuit (with the stipulation that they're precisely equivalent in spec).

[lti]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I don't know why you put Jackcon in that list with the other brands. Jackcon caps are just as bad as GSC/Evercon/Sacon caps, if not worse. I've seen them fail with very little stress. I have a bunch of bad ones that were removed from audio equipment that was powered by a linear power supply.

I haven't been able to tell the difference between different brands of caps unless some were bad or had different capacitance ratings. I did notice more power supply noise in my headphone amp when I replaced the Jackcon filter cap (the only good Jackcon cap I've ever seen) with a Lelon.

The only brands of caps I've seen fail under very little stress (such as audio equipment) are Jackcon and Fujicon. My headphone amp has Lelon, JEC, and G-Luxon caps in it.

[theokretes]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

This is all very dubious and subject to anecdote. The fact is, given a blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two brands of caps used in an audio circuit (with the stipulation that they're precisely equivalent in spec).

Absolutely, two 470uF TEAPO or WINCAP capacitors do not have the same bass frequency response as two 470uF ELNA or Nichicon caps.

I regularly do recordings from various soundcards, and after removing the disgusting chinese decoupling caps, the bass becomes a lot more colourful when using quality ones.

No one should be using TEAPO or G-Luxon anyways. They are *not* proper capacitors-- they do not deliver their specified ratings, they usually come pre-bulged, and screw audio and data circuits up.

[mockingbird]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

Absolutely, two 470uF TEAPO or WINCAP capacitors do not have the same bass frequency response as two 470uF ELNA or Nichicon caps.

I regularly do recordings from various soundcards, and after removing the disgusting chinese decoupling caps, the bass becomes a lot more colourful when using quality ones.

No one should be using TEAPO or G-Luxon anyways. They are *not* proper capacitors-- they do not deliver their specified ratings, they usually come pre-bulged, and screw audio and data circuits up.

I'll grant you that (I've personally had Teapo work quite well for many years out in the field), but a cap is a cap is a cap... What I have issue with is this:

*On a side note, Nichicon capacitors always have incredible bass, must be something in the formula.

Let's take two equivalent series of caps, say Nichicon PW and Panasonic FHQ (FC's predecessor). Are you claiming that you could tell a difference in sound with either of these series installed in an amp?

[theokretes]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

I'll grant you that (I've personally had Teapo work quite well for many years out in the field), but a cap is a cap is a cap... What I have issue with is this:

Let's take two equivalent series of caps, say Nichicon PW and Panasonic FHQ (FC's predecessor). Are you claiming that you could tell a difference in sound with either of these series installed in an amp?

Not necessarily in a pure amplifier, but part of both a smaller amplifier and decoupling circuit in a sound card. This is especially true for soundcards that incorporate frequency modulation synthesis. FM synthesis is very sensitive to frequency response.

There would definitely be a difference in sound from a nichicon and panasonic capacitor (if you had two 470uF nichicon and pannies). Nichicons get a lot of bass.

Myself and others have demonstrated recapping various soundcards to prove this effect, the nichicons always come out the strongest. I've wanted to try ELNA cerafine/silmic, but there's a lot of knockoffs around, and finding a vendor for genuine ones will be both expensive and difficult.

In any case, the chinese capacitors suffer from two symptoms:
#1 they fail to filter out white noise
#2 they lack proper bass response

Other brands like panasonic simply won't procure as much bass. I prefer panasonic for low-ESR stuff than audio. Rubycon's ZLH series even though being low ESR has a bizarre amount of bass as well.

[linuxguru]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

There would definitely be a difference in sound from a nichicon and panasonic capacitor (if you had two 470uF nichicon and pannies). Nichicons get a lot of bass.

Myself and others have demonstrated recapping various soundcards to prove this effect, the nichicons always come out the strongest. I've wanted to try ELNA cerafine/silmic, but there's a lot of knockoffs around.

Premium audio capacitors definitely have their unique sonic signatures, but whether it makes a material difference depends on the specific purpose it is used for.

Almost all of them differ when used in coupling/DC blocking - in descending order of preference:

Rubycon Black Gate NX-HiQ > NX > N > PK > F > FK > STD
Sanyo Oscon SA > SC
Nichicon Muse KZ > KW > SW > FG
Elna Cerafine > RE3 > Silmic II > Silmic > Tonerex > Starget > Duorex
Panasonic Pureism > FL > FJ

However, when used for bypass, several other series (in addition to the ones above) do well:

Elna RJJ > RJH > RJ4 > RJ3 > RE2 > R3O > R2O
Panasonic FK > FM > FC > NHG > NHE
Nichicon HD > HE > PX > PW > PJ > PM > PL > PR > PS > VZ > VX > VR
Rubycon ZA > ZL > ZLH

Cerafines don't work out for every application - they tend to be very analytical and dry sounding, and in some applications the tonal balance of Silmics is more well-rounded, even though it loses detail.

Both the Rubycon Black Gates and Nichicon Muses are the kings of detail - tiny and under-rated Muse SW is very close to the Black Gate PK in almost any coupling/bypass application. It's great when space is tight (e.g. sound cards, CD/DVD decoder boards, etc.).

For transparency, Oscons and Polymers are hard to beat, but they have some drawbacks including leakage current, low voltage rating and magnetic leads (most polymers).

[shovenose]

Re: What do you think is the most underrated "bad cap" brand?

my Sound Blaster Z has Nichicon fwiw.