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    Railway locomotive mother board

    G'day Guys,

    My work has a motherboard (in the very strict sense of the word) that goes into a Rail Locomotive. They have asked me to find out if anyone is able to 'recondition' this particular motherboard.

    They've had a fairly impressive go of an in house solder job so it will need cleaning up....

    Do you guys know of anyone who will recondition this type of board. This board doesn't have much in the way of componentry, its just a board that a whole bunch of other cards and ribbon cables plug into.

    I can post a photo if you like but I don't have one handy.

    Cheers,

    Robes.

    #2
    Re: Railway locomotive mother board

    What exactly do you mean by 'recondition'?

    .
    Mann-Made Global Warming.
    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

    -
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

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    -
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      #3
      Re: Railway locomotive mother board

      Good question... I don't really know. The tech's who've asked for it are worried that their replacement board isn't going to work, so they've asked me to find out if it is possible to recondition the original one, just in case... I think I'll need to post a photo to explain exactly what I mean.

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        #4
        Re: Railway locomotive mother board

        yeah.....i'm interested in this too......

        the whole 'curiosity' thing.

        any part numbers on the board itself would be good too....
        "Its all about the boom....."

        Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.

        We now return you to your regularly scheduled drinking.

        "Fear accompanies the possibility of death.....calm shepherds its certainty"

        Originally posted by Topcat
        AWD is just training wheels for RWD.

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          #5
          Re: Railway locomotive mother board

          afaik, only problem with embedded stuff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_system) can be it's size, but nevertheless it should be possible to recap it etc.

          these designs usually use old, archaic hardware that is well tested in the field...
          for example i was very surprised when i saw what recent trams are using
          ( http://zeljeznice.net/forum/viewtopi...15c13f5#134682 ).
          offcourse, it came as no surprise to find out critical systems are still not under any control from pc(running xp) itself...

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Railway locomotive mother board

            oh TRAMS! I kept going through the thread looking for a trans am.
            Presonus Audiobox USB, Schiit Magni 3, Sony MDR-V700

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Railway locomotive mother board

              Oh. LOL. There wasn't any Trans Am anywhere in this and Loco is a engine-generator with motor-drive bogies. Trams is people carrying on rubber wheels or steel on rails with overhead power wires or self-powered. Also there is wire trams.

              Cheers, Wizard

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Railway locomotive mother board

                ROBES,
                First of all...
                What series Locomotive is this for?
                ie GE GP4????
                ...
                How about a few pictures???
                And a few pictures of where and how the component is mounted in the Locomotive?
                ....
                what is the component designation (the letters on the Circuit Board tag/label)?
                ...
                Excessive Solder on a GPX Series Locomotive Control Module Main Board (we in the computer industry call them motherboards - those in the electric locomotion field call them Locomotive Control Modules) is not good.
                ..
                These boards are subjected to excessive vibration and sub sonic level stress. Excessive solder tends to cause micro fracturing and tends to chip off - falling where solder bits should not fall.
                ..
                SMD devices are rare in Electro Motive Applications because of the afore mentioned sub sonic stress issues..
                ...
                In Germany back in the 1980's the US Air Force Fielded a new Mobile Radar Data Remote Terminal to all the Tactical Air Traffic Control Units. The Big Box Van was designed to allow the transmission of Radar Data to other units to share data and provide a means of over lapping radar control info. The Vans were somewhat climate controlled and when not in operation stored outside. They were also road hauled from location to location (the term Tactical means a "Mobile" application where equipment is moved from location to location and set up and taken down repeatedly).
                ...
                All the components performed to spec's and then there was a rash of system failures. Units were failing left and right, and reliability dropped from 99.999% to about 35%. On one inspection, a Data Control Unit was opened and when turned upside down a lot of little mouse turds were noticed falling aout of the unit. But wait - upon closer inspection it was discovered that these were surface mount devices that were supposed to be mounted to the circuit boards. But why were they falling off the motherboards - they weren't subjected to excessive heat - so why are they being un-soldered.
                ..
                The answer was astonishing (an a testament to high tech applications without common sense background). SMD devices are first pasted with an adhesive, then wave soldered. The application on its surface was viable - working temps of -40 degrees to +185 Degrees. All the specs are valid - But.... The specs are for a staionary unit.
                ..
                The failing units were stored at a unit near Stuttgart, Germany - wintertime temps of -10 Degrees. Then road hauled and powered up. So they were subjected to excessive sub sonic vibrations, then thermal shoked when powered up. The solder was cracking and chiopping away - hence the rats nest of mouse turds.
                ..
                The fix was not acceptable. The units had to be set in place. warmed up with climate control units powered up and running for one to two days prior tp power up. This did not meet the requirements of Radid Deployment - so the U.S. Government scrapped all thirty two of the $540M Data Transfer Vans. So ended the American Dream of Over lapping Radar data and Centralized Control of Tactical radar Control Units throughout Europe. All because of a little solder and solder pste problem.
                ..
                My solution was to put a silicon/RTV bead accross the SMD components - Why was I allowed any input? Because my Unit had the only three Radar Data Transfer Vans that still had a 99.999% reliablility rating. Our Equipment always performed. When the folks at Depot found out that we had taken all the drawers out and hand re-soldered and then put a n RTV sealant bead accross all the SMD components - they were livid. WE CHANGED THE SPECS WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.
                ..
                I got a promotion (after a dressing down about following depot recommendations) and was transferred to HQ USAFE (United States Air Forces Europe). I was to become one of the USAFE Program managers for fielding and up grading Electronic Systems in Europe. We took the US Military from an analog Communications world to a Digital State of the Art Communications System. Not only that - we encrypted everything, any and all circuits, radio channels and satellite feeds - voice, data, Fax, Imaging - (you know weather pictures for the Weather Service at Langlyey Virginia..).
                ..
                Then I went back to the states in the late 80's and later participated in the "original" Desert Storm. Same problems. different people. The statements were always the same "The manufacturer';s specs are valid - so why is there a failure problem". My answer is always the same - "Because some engineering wheenie is sitting at a bench in a climate controlled lab and certifying that this circuit works in all applications". I have been to the North Pole, I set tactical equipment in Greenland, Alaska, Germany, Spain, England, The Bahammas (a fun place to camp out on the beach), Egypt, Turky, and Central America - Oh yea don't Forget Oklahoma, Georgia, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Florida.
                ..
                When a customer tells me they are having failures and that all the specs seem to be withing the normal - I am always obliged to ask them "Just exactly what is Normal?"...
                ..
                If you don't know what the problem is - then you probably don't know the cure. If you know what the problem is and are loking for a text book cure - then you are probably just patching the problem for some one to deal with later. NOT GOOD....
                ..
                I take pride in the fact that I helped field (I was in on the Brassboarding and Prototyping of) the most state of the art and durable communications equipment that the real world had ever seen. We put SatComm Terminals, Microwave and Troposheric Backhaul (both tactical and stationary) in every Embassy, Consolate, Air Force and Army Base, Naval, Marine and Coast Guard Base in the world (not to mention FAA Centers and Military Aircraft the world over).
                ..
                So every time I hear some one tell me that "The engineers have reviewed the specs and that they don't seem to be the problem" I cringe. Troubleshooting and failure analysis is not limited to a paper search. I like to throw it in the mud, toss it in the snow, and have even put circuit boards in my wifes oven (she really gets red faced when she sees me baking a circuit board - "ARE YOU CRAZY?" - I just reply - "Common Knowledge, my dear").
                ...
                Your Locomotive Guys have the right approach - it may seem fine - but is it really? And would you bet your life on it? Would you feel confident that this item is going to perform and get the train back to the station - or are you betting it will get you buy until you get home?
                ..
                If you wnat to send it (or them) to mke I will gladly take a gander.
                ..
                Refurbish is such a cheap word..
                Re-manufactured sounds too snobish too...
                Lets just say correctly analyzed and certified.
                ..
                Sorry about the long verbage (a lot to say).
                Respectfully,
                Dave R. Mason
                Computer-Tech@phoenixcomputerlabs.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Railway locomotive mother board

                  Wow. A lot of that should be in the "Introduce Yourself" thread.

                  In case you didn't realize, 'robes' hasn't posted anything in 14+ months...

                  All aboard!

                  Toast
                  veritas odium parit

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                    #10
                    Re: Railway locomotive mother board

                    Originally posted by Computer-Tech
                    Then I went back to the states in the late 80's and later participated in the "original" Desert Storm. Same problems. different people. The statements were always the same "The manufacturer';s specs are valid - so why is there a failure problem". My answer is always the same - "Because some engineering wheenie is sitting at a bench in a climate controlled lab and certifying that this circuit works in all applications".
                    I know this is an old thread but I just had to post because it's great to read that, I totally agree with you.

                    It annoys me so much when someone designs something, and then in the real world it completely fails to perform, because "It looks good on paper!"

                    What's even worse is when the technician has made a good design and the idiots in charge go "Oh but we want it like this" etc etc... result is a piece of crap because it's designed to follow some stupid "requirement" or idea that isn't needed or remotely sensible.

                    Then there's the other one that makes me cringe: "It's within tolerances!"
                    "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                    -David VanHorn

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