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    #21
    Re: Sanyo fake caps?

    If you use a series resistor for reforming, it can be a little quicker, and the right value is whatever you have laying around. Seriously, pretty much any value between 1K and 100K should be OK. As PCB said, the electrolyte is not the dielectric. The electrolyte is, for low ESR parts, highly conductive, and is part of the current path for ripple current. That is why evaporating electrolyte results in the ESR increasing.

    One thing that isn't visually apparent if you take an electrolytic capacitor apart is that the anode (+) foil is far from smooth. Because the aluminum oxide layer is very thin, increasing the surface area of the foil by etching "valleys" into it increases the capacitance obtainable from a given length x width of foil. The degree and desired pattern of etch varies with the intended working voltage. This reminds me of a thread I should try to find ...
    PeteS in CA

    Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
    ****************************
    To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
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      #22
      Re: Sanyo fake caps?

      Well, that was a quick search. Back then I was "unwrapping" lytics as part of testing them for suitability in my employer's products, mostly 16mm and 18mm diameter parts, and some 12.5mm parts. All were low impedance parts, though not any of the ultra-low impedance, 2000-hour parts common on computer MBs. It sounds like silly donkey work, but it gave us some clues to some general desirable characteristics. Once, we also caught a major cap vendor telling us that one current series was a RoHS-compliant, otherwise identical, version of an older non-RoHS series, when the foils for "identical" parts were very different. Those parts also performed very differently in another key test. Since we were a major customer for that cap company, the apologies were profuse and from some higher-ups in their North American operations.
      PeteS in CA

      Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
      ****************************
      To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
      ****************************

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        #23
        Re: Sanyo fake caps?

        [Total guess here]
        I suspect that early on WX was Sanyo's only low ESR series and the gold meant Low ESR.
        Since they only had one low ESR series and the gold ID'ed them they didn't feel the need to mark them with WX too.
        Later when WG came out they had to start marking the WX too.
        - Like I said, that's speculation..
        Great hypothesis.
        e also caught a major cap vendor telling us that one current series was a RoHS-compliant, otherwise identical, version of an older non-RoHS series, when the foils for "identical" parts were very different.
        Was this Illinois Capacitor?
        "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

        -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

        Comment

          #24
          Re: Sanyo fake caps?

          No. It was what I consider a first tier lytic mfr. I'm not sure I'd consider IC a second-tier company, or even if they actually manufacture the lytics they sell.

          The back story is that it was a very mature low impedance series (so mature as to be hardly worth calling low impedance). With having to move to all RoHS-compliant products, they initially decided to kill off the series. Then they got lots of complaints from people who still used the series and didn't want to go through the expense of qualifying a different series with different characteristics. So they resurrected the series, with a different name (and as it turned out, with different innards that were still compliant to the old specs). This suited us well, so we went through the paperwork process of qualifying the "new" series, having received a letter from the company assuring us that the "new" series was identical to the old series, except for being lead-free. After all the apologies, the cap company also made, especially for us, the "new" series part with the same foils as the old part.

          I really don't want to mention the company's name, as they owned up, apologized, made us whole and, in general, make really good parts. I should also add that my (now, former) employer uses lytics in a very unusual way. The caps sometimes may be handling 8X-10X their rated ripple current, but, on a cumulative basis, only for about 10% of a day. The tests I conducted had the test victims running at 8X-10X ripple current for 21-22 hours a day (with 2-3 hours for cooling and measurements) until they vented. In more normal use, those "new" caps with lighter foils might have performed perfectly well. The cap company F'ed up, but it may have been an example of the left hand (US and Asia Sales & Marketing) not knowing what the right hand (engineering in Asia) was doing.
          PeteS in CA

          Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
          ****************************
          To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
          ****************************

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            #25
            Re: Sanyo fake caps?

            Fascinating...

            Yea, you're right about IC probably not manufacturing their stuff in the US. I have a feeling it's made in Thailand.
            "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

            -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

            Comment

              #26
              Re: Sanyo fake caps?

              Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
              Fascinating...

              Yea, you're right about IC probably not manufacturing their stuff in the US. I have a feeling it's made in Thailand.
              Nope.
              Still made in USA.
              Corporate is still here too.
              Only thing they have overseas is distribution offices.
              .
              Didn't even have a distributor in Asia until '05.
              THAT'S why you don't see them in PC equipment.
              .
              OTOH you will see them in Fluke, BK and Tektronix test equipment.
              .
              Last edited by PCBONEZ; 02-20-2012, 08:38 PM.
              Mann-Made Global Warming.
              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
              -
              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
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                #27
                Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                Nope.
                Still made in USA.
                Corporate is still here too.
                Only thing they have overseas is distribution offices.
                They sent me a defective product (Well, not from them, from their distributor)... When I complained, they put me in touch with someone who had a Thai-sounding name.
                "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                Comment

                  #28
                  Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                  Oh yeah, like no one in the melting pot has an accent...
                  .
                  Just so happens that someone that didn't speak English at all knocked on the door and tried to buy my car today...
                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment

                    #29
                    Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                    Speaking of fake Sanyo caps...

                    Good ol' Dealextreme got 'em, in 20-packs of 3300uf 10V, 3300uf 6.3V, and 1000uf 6.3V.

                    1000uf 6.3V: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/6-3v-10...ece-pack-94455
                    3300uf 6.3V: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/6-3v-33...ece-pack-94453
                    3300uf 10V: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/10v-330...ece-pack-94454

                    The 1000uf 6.3V fake Sanyos look more convincing than both the 3300uf caps, but the "SUNCON" mixed in with them is the sign that they're fakes.

                    I might actually purchase some fakes from Dealextreme, as I'm strapped for cash and with the fakes coming in 20-packs each for dirt cheap means there's a lot to use for replacements.
                    Last edited by Newbie2; 02-20-2012, 08:52 PM.
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                      #30
                      Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                      but the "SUNCON" mixed in with them is the sign that they're fakes
                      No...

                      Suncon owns Sanyo's cap division now...

                      Be careful with Sanyo caps... There are some real exceptional fakes that only the very trained eye can spot. All my Sanyos were taken off motherboards.
                      "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                      -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                      Comment

                        #31
                        Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                        Originally posted by Newbie2 View Post
                        but the "SUNCON" mixed in with them is the sign that they're fakes.
                        No,

                        Sanyo and Suncon are the same factory and people.
                        Basically the factory 'bought themselves' from Sanyo and chose the name Suncon.
                        .
                        I had correspondence with Engineers at Sanyo USA before the change-over.
                        [I sent in samples to have them validated as legit or not.]
                        When I checked, those positions are still filled by same people under Suncon.
                        Same names, same phone numbers, different email addies [x@Suncon vice x@Sanyo].

                        Suncon -ARE- Sanyo caps.
                        - The ONLY thing that changed is the name.
                        .
                        .
                        You can buy legit Sanyo/Suncon from Bdent but their on-line catalog is a serious PITA [really hard to find things] and they are always out of stock for a bunch of sizes. Prices are usually better for Nichicon from Mouser, but if you feel the need for green to make a fashion statement or something there is a source of legit greenie meanies..
                        .
                        Mann-Made Global Warming.
                        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                        -
                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                        - Dr Seuss
                        -
                        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                        -

                        Comment

                          #32
                          Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                          Actually, the prices for WG there is pretty decent if you buy a QTY of 10... Cheaper than equivalent HM at the big three...

                          Might use em... What remains to be seen is how they handle their Canadian shipping... The big three make use of NAFTA (Not that I'm a fan of it), so there are no "brokerage fees" when the package comes to my door.
                          "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                          -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                          Comment

                            #33
                            Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                            Oh I see. Well I wasn't up to date on Sanyo caps so thank you for the clarification. I might order some of the Suncon/Sanyo 1000uf 6.3V caps from Dealextreme to see if they're real or not. Probably not knowing Dealextreme, but they look good in the pictures.
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                              #34
                              Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                              Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                              Actually, the prices for WG there is pretty decent if you buy a QTY of 10... Cheaper than equivalent HM at the big three..
                              From the DX links above, only the 6.3V 1000uF look like they're the real deal. The others are obvious fakes (rubber bung and the one customer rating on the page).

                              Question is if you actually get what's pictured.

                              The price for the 6.3 1000uF is actually why I don't think you're gonna get real ones. 20pcs for 2.90usd/2.41eur w. free shipping ?!

                              In the PCMC Store for example, 20pcs cost 4.99usd + 2usd shipping (3.79eur + 1.52eur respectively). I know that's not the cheapest you can get them, but it's a reliable source. He's not gonna disappear all of a sudden. And he's aware of fake caps being in circulation.. some of his auctions (coincidentally also for Sanyo caps) include a pic of a bunch of Sanyo boxes. Some of them are pretty beat up, but I'm pretty sure he won't sell damaged caps.

                              How can DX afford to sell them at less than half of that? To be honest, I don't think they can.. at least not with genuine Sanyo/Suncon caps if you get what I mean.

                              DX is a good source for obscure hardware and stuff, but definitely not good quality caps. Always take their offers with a grain of salt... or more like a teaspoon full of salt.. lol
                              Last edited by Scenic; 02-21-2012, 01:45 PM.

                              Comment

                                #35
                                Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                                Originally posted by Scenic View Post
                                How can DX afford to sell them at less than half of that? To be honest, I don't think they can.. at least not with genuine Sanyo/Suncon caps if you get what I mean.
                                On occasion I've purchased overstock of legit caps for as little as 2 cents a cap.
                                Talking like MBZ still in factory 500 and 1000 pc factory boxes.
                                ~ That's how..
                                .
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                  #36
                                  Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                                  Originally posted by Scenic View Post
                                  From the DX links above, only the 6.3V 1000uF look like they're the real deal. The others are obvious fakes (rubber bung and the one customer rating on the page).
                                  Post 36 and beyond.

                                  https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...t=16344&page=2
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                                  Comment

                                    #37
                                    Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                                    Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                                    On occasion I've purchased overstock of legit caps for as little as 2 cents a cap.
                                    Talking like MBZ still in factory 500 and 1000 pc factory boxes.
                                    ~ That's how..
                                    I know.. But DX has been selling these for a couple years, and I kinda doubt they've got THAT much overstock caps on hand..
                                    Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                                    Post 36 and beyond.

                                    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...t=16344&page=2
                                    That's why I put the "look" in italic and said "Question is if you actually get what's pictured."
                                    Plus, the 3300uF pictured on DX are obvious fakes with the flat bung in their demo-pic. The 6.3V 1000uF at least look more promising, but again, you most likely won't get what they show you... Just like gianni who bought the fake ones and got different fakes.. if that makes any sense

                                    Comment

                                      #38
                                      Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                                      Originally posted by Scenic View Post
                                      I know.. But DX has been selling these for a couple years, and I kinda doubt they've got THAT much overstock caps on hand...

                                      The 6.3V 1000uF at least look more promising, but again, you most likely won't get what they show you... Just like gianni who bought the fake ones and got different fakes.. if that makes any sense
                                      DealExtreme's been only offering these 1000uf 6.3V Sanyo/Suncon caps since September of 2011, which isn't too too long ago. On the bottom of its product page on DealExtreme it says "Listed by Supplier: OPURSTECH, added on 9/22/2011".

                                      Real Sanyo WG 1000uf 6.3V caps are 8x11.5mm, and DealExtreme lists the dimensions of their 1000uf 6.3V as 8x12mm (1.2 cm x 0.8 cm x 0.8 cm) so that's pretty consistent.

                                      But I do agree with the factor of whether DealExtreme sends what they have in the picture... I've ordered many times with them in the past and on a couple occasions the products I received were slightly different than advertised, but the same basic type of product. They don't advertise specific brands but only a generic "6.3V 1000uf Aluminum Motherboard Capacitors" description so they could send you any brand I guess, as long as they were 1000uf 6.3V caps. But if they actually do send the real deal, that's a steal...

                                      Originally posted by Scenic View Post
                                      The price for the 6.3 1000uF is actually why I don't think you're gonna get real ones. 20pcs for 2.90usd/2.41eur w. free shipping ?!

                                      In the PCMC Store for example, 20pcs cost 4.99usd + 2usd shipping (3.79eur + 1.52eur respectively). I know that's not the cheapest you can get them, but it's a reliable source. He's not gonna disappear all of a sudden. And he's aware of fake caps being in circulation.. some of his auctions (coincidentally also for Sanyo caps) include a pic of a bunch of Sanyo boxes. Some of them are pretty beat up, but I'm pretty sure he won't sell damaged caps.

                                      How can DX afford to sell them at less than half of that? To be honest, I don't think they can.. at least not with genuine Sanyo/Suncon caps if you get what I mean.
                                      A quick search on Google and there are Chinese wholesale distributors that offer bulk Sanyo, Rubycon, Panasonic, etc. capacitors for cheap considering the quantity; one I saw that sold Sanyo caps had a picture of the box and bag next to the caps that were labelled "SANYO Electric Co., Ltd.", with the label on the box looking real with the actual part number, box quantity, and Sanyo logo on the sticker.
                                      Last edited by Newbie2; 02-21-2012, 07:40 PM.
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                                        #39
                                        Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                                        Hello. I have bought 1000uF 16V 105C Capacitors at Banggood.com http://www.banggood.com/20Pcs-1000uF...-p-945078.html

                                        I need them only for simple LC filter (ferrite ring and 1000uF cap, not sure if need any resistors)

                                        As I know nothing about capacitors quality, I would like if those are legit or safe for use?

                                        http://i.imgur.com/lKROJ05.jpg
                                        http://i.imgur.com/KxYtnof.jpg
                                        http://i.imgur.com/hGjSfWK.jpg
                                        http://i.imgur.com/xQafrnK.jpg
                                        http://i.imgur.com/oP8MGWK.jpg
                                        Attached Files
                                        Last edited by Per Hansson; 10-30-2015, 09:20 AM. Reason: Offsite images uploaded

                                        Comment

                                          #40
                                          Re: Sanyo fake caps?

                                          Originally posted by hifi1234 View Post
                                          Hello. I have bought 1000uF 16V 105C Capacitors at Banggood.com http://www.banggood.com/20Pcs-1000uF...-p-945078.html

                                          I need them only for simple LC filter (ferrite ring and 1000uF cap, not sure if need any resistors)

                                          As I know nothing about capacitors quality, I would like if those are legit or safe for use?

                                          http://i.imgur.com/lKROJ05.jpg
                                          http://i.imgur.com/KxYtnof.jpg
                                          http://i.imgur.com/hGjSfWK.jpg
                                          http://i.imgur.com/xQafrnK.jpg
                                          http://i.imgur.com/oP8MGWK.jpg
                                          Those look fake.
                                          They have a "+" vent shape and the bung is the circular type found [mainly] on cheap caps.

                                          -Ben
                                          Muh-soggy-knee

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