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Old 08-28-2010, 09:29 AM   #21
seanc
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

I've seen caps in GX270 towers fail before - even on stock systems.
I doubt you pushed it over it's limits, you just discovered what was inevitable.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:43 AM   #22
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

i think the main problem was then cheap caps and the cooling-but i think with a little better cooling they would last longer.
but ibm is dumb too. ive seen sff ibm p4s with bulgy lytics right next to the heatsink (which was getting very hot since one of the 2 fans cooling the hs failed woulda been nice to put polymers right next to the heatsink
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:03 AM   #23
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
i think the main problem was then cheap caps and the cooling-but i think with a little better cooling they would last longer.
but ibm is dumb too. ive seen sff ibm p4s with bulgy lytics right next to the heatsink (which was getting very hot since one of the 2 fans cooling the hs failed woulda been nice to put polymers right next to the heatsink
Dell boards are custom ordered from Intel.
Intel doesn't use cheap caps. - Ever.

MANY Dells do have heat issues.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:26 AM   #24
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

not true, had a something-80 here the other day.
it had a few no-name 85' 22uf caps in it.
one was ruptured and causing random lockups.

most of the caps were ruby's but there were still a few crap caps.
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Old 08-28-2010, 11:50 AM   #25
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

The GX270 systems actually run quite cool and quiet, even with 3Ghz P4 in.
I think it depends on the OEM of the PSU. I've seen the PSUs fail in the GX260 towers too - I'd consider those basic (useless - no SATA) compared to the GX270.

The PSU in the GX270 next to me is full of OST - not bulging, but they rarely do. If it stops working I'll recap it - I have two more Antec EA-380 to do first.
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Old 08-28-2010, 12:17 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GX270_user
I probably just pushed something over the edge by booting with the 300 GB Maxtor hooked up and from that point forward it would not even come up cleanly with just the MoBo and a 3 1/2" floppy attached ...
I doubt it. Dell OEM PSUs are built very well. The extra load from hard drive or two would never kill them. With that said, it's very likely that the caps failed even before you connected the Maxtor hard drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GX270_user View Post
will probably pick up a Thermaltake TR2 today at Fry's simply because it's available locally and looks like the better choice at Fry's and given the from factor it has to fit into (a Dell GX270).
Just make sure it will fit in your case. I have a TR2 as well (XP550-NP 430W) and it's about an inch longer than most power supplies due to the dual-fan design.

Recently, I also had to replace the power supply in a Dell GX240. The case for the GX240 had a grille in the back where the PSU was mounted so most of the ATX power supplies that were available at the stores wouldn't fit because they all had power switches or the power connector was at the wrong place. Had to find another Dell, HP, or Compaq OEM (which I did - used on Craigslist for $5 ).

By the way, for how much are you getting the TR2? Reason I'm asking is because most places will sell it for usually ~$40. Microcenter often has it for $25 or $30 after rebates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GX270_user
I get time, I'm going to recap the old Dell OEM PSU too; it looks like a Hipro given the Dell part number and it looks reasonably well built/designed ...
Yes, the OEM Dell PSUs are really well built indeed (large heatsinks, good AC filtering, etc.). They're usually made by Delta, Lite-ON, or HiPro. Just look up the UL number online (the one that starts with E and has 6 digits after it).
Delta UL number - E131881
Lite-ON UL number - E132068
Chicony Power (HiPro?) UL number - E143709

And definitely recap it, because it's likely a good power supply (you don't need to replace the big 200v caps, though). In fact, I recommend doing that rather than buying a new power supply. Post some pictures too, if you can. Also, what brands are the caps that failed?

The bad PSU in the GX240 I mentioned above was a Chicony Power 250W. Had a 5vsb failure (problem yet to be found). I got another Chicony Power 200W from Craigslist for $5 which had a bad Teapo before the MOSFET on the 3.3v rail. That one was an easy fix.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
not true, had a something-80 here the other day.
it had a few no-name 85' 22uf caps in it.
one was ruptured and causing random lockups.

most of the caps were ruby's but there were still a few crap caps.
Bullshit.
Intel has a company mandate. - Jap caps only.
The fact that you can't ID them doesn't change that.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanc View Post
The GX270 systems actually run quite cool and quiet, even with 3Ghz P4 in.
I think it depends on the OEM of the PSU. I've seen the PSUs fail in the GX260 towers too - I'd consider those basic (useless - no SATA) compared to the GX270.

The PSU in the GX270 next to me is full of OST - not bulging, but they rarely do. If it stops working I'll recap it - I have two more Antec EA-380 to do first.
Agree. - PSU might have a lot to do with it.

Who made the one with OST?
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Yes, the OEM Dell PSUs are really well built indeed (large heatsinks, good AC filtering, etc.). They're usually made by Delta, Lite-ON, or HiPro. Just look up the UL number online (the one that starts with E and has 6 digits after it).
Delta UL number - E131881
Lite-ON UL number - E132068
Chicony Power (HiPro?) UL number - E143709

And definitely recap it, because it's likely a good power supply (you don't need to replace the big 200v caps, though). In fact, I recommend doing that rather than buying a new power supply. Post some pictures too, if you can. Also, what brands are the caps that failed?
Also NPS. [Newton Power]
NPS is likely better than than the others.
The NPS I've pulled apart have been all Rubycon/Nichicon/Chemicon caps.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:09 AM   #30
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
I doubt it. Dell OEM PSUs are built very well. The extra load from hard drive or two would never kill them. With that said, it's very likely that the caps failed even before you connected the Maxtor hard drive.


Just make sure it will fit in your case. I have a TR2 as well (XP550-NP 430W) and it's about an inch longer than most power supplies due to the dual-fan design.

Recently, I also had to replace the power supply in a Dell GX240. The case for the GX240 had a grille in the back where the PSU was mounted so most of the ATX power supplies that were available at the stores wouldn't fit because they all had power switches or the power connector was at the wrong place. Had to find another Dell, HP, or Compaq OEM (which I did - used on Craigslist for $5 ).

By the way, for how much are you getting the TR2? Reason I'm asking is because most places will sell it for usually ~$40. Microcenter often has it for $25 or $30 after rebates.


Yes, the OEM Dell PSUs are really well built indeed (large heatsinks, good AC filtering, etc.). They're usually made by Delta, Lite-ON, or HiPro. Just look up the UL number online (the one that starts with E and has 6 digits after it).
Delta UL number - E131881
Lite-ON UL number - E132068
Chicony Power (HiPro?) UL number - E143709

And definitely recap it, because it's likely a good power supply (you don't need to replace the big 200v caps, though). In fact, I recommend doing that rather than buying a new power supply. Post some pictures too, if you can. Also, what brands are the caps that failed?

The bad PSU in the GX240 I mentioned above was a Chicony Power 250W. Had a 5vsb failure (problem yet to be found). I got another Chicony Power 200W from Craigslist for $5 which had a bad Teapo before the MOSFET on the 3.3v rail. That one was an easy fix.
On the Good News front - The Thermaltake TR2 430W PSU is on sale at CompUSA for $10 off regular price (the 'instant rebate' trick) and a further $15 off via mail-in rebate ... so $39.99 will turn into $24.99 (after mail-in rebate and 6 weeks wait) ...

The tin snips (or a chassis nibbler) will be called upon to open up the area where the power switch is on the back of the TR2, I tried it for fit yesterday, to make sure that's all that's needed there.

I'll probably bench test the Dell PSU then too, like you say, looks well-built and caps replacement is pretty easy (beats the effort required to replace a BGA anyday!) ... I want to see what the issue is (chance to get some 'flight time' on a PC PSU on a bench as well). I suspect that the 5VSB is soft ... as the 'always on' LED on the MoBo pulsates during this odd behavior.


On the 'differential diagnosis' on killing the Dell PSU: Prior to booting with the HD hooked up I had successfully booted to DOS 6.2 via the floppy a couple times just to make sure things were working at that stage ... then tried bringing up PC with the Maxtor HD attached and that 'did her in' ... past this point the 270 wouldn't even boot with just the floppy attached!

Also - this PC was in storage for the past 2 yrs (by me) and prior to that I suspect they ('work') got rid of it b/c of some issue (maybe it failed to come up then too with a HD attached?) ...


I'll keep plugging away at this, I haven't had an excuse for looking at PSUs, caps and all this kind of technology in awhile since other PCs are working - I find that it's only when things *don't* work that one sometimes finds time to explore and research a subject like PC power supplies


Thanks for the pointers too.

Jim
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:43 PM   #31
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ View Post
Dell boards are custom ordered from Intel.
Intel doesn't use cheap caps. - Ever.
I had a Dell GX260 with a 2-piece mobo made by Foxconn, and the mobos of my GX270s were by Asus
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Old 08-29-2010, 05:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Foxconn builds for Intel. [Intel requires Foxconn use Jap caps in their orders. Foxconn doesn't always on "not-for-Intel" boards.]
Dell contracts Intel to provide mobos. Some of them get built by Foxconn.
- That's WAY WAY old news.

GX270 boards weren't built by Asus, just Intel/Foxconn.
You may have found some GX270 cases where someone played presto-change-o with the mobos.
Highly likely as the GX270 carried the bulk of the HN/HM issue and boards were tough to find for a while.

.

Last edited by PCBONEZ; 08-29-2010 at 05:27 PM..
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Post some pictures too, if you can. Also, what brands are the caps that failed?
Been a busy week here, and lots of progress made.

First, some pictures of the swelled (several) and leaking (1) caps from the Dell Model HP-P2507FWP:



Leaking cap:



Swelled caps:


I'll have to oen it back up to get the manufacturer's name ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4709_Psu_Dell_Nameplate-x2.jpg (35.8 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4718_Psu_Dell_LeakingCap.JPG (213.4 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4719_Psu_Dell_BulgingCap.JPG (208.8 KB, 119 views)

Last edited by GX270_user; 09-05-2010 at 08:59 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:10 AM   #34
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post

Just make sure it will fit in your case. I have a TR2 as well (XP550-NP 430W) and it's about an inch longer than most power supplies due to the dual-fan design.
That's a good point, this TR2 is longer as well, but, by proper placing of the power supply cables I managed not to block the fan and also not get the cable crushed by the backend of the CD-ROM drive.

It took some nipping of the sheet metal with a nibbling tool and then the AC power switch on the PSU was no longer obscured/covered up.

Some pics - first, the still bits nibbled away, plus that some pieces (one piece of plastic) from that little 'arm' inside the PC that used to 'hold' the Dell PSU in place:




Rear PC opening nibbled to accomodate AC power switch:




Thermaltake TR2 430W fitted into new opening:





And - the GOOD NEWS is the GX270 came up with the HD attached now ... the new OS was installed without a hitch and the GX270 is back in 'service'. I owe this success in good measure to the resources, the information, the people of badcaps.net - thanks guys, I would have been lost without reading about the experiences others had with these PCs. Thanks again.

Jim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4737_RemovedMaterial_SteelBits.JPG (214.9 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4738_ExpandedOpening.JPG (212.8 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4743_TR2_PowerSupplyInPlace.JPG (199.0 KB, 114 views)

Last edited by GX270_user; 09-05-2010 at 09:18 AM.. Reason: Add
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

nicely nibbled

@PCBONEZ: my intel d955xbk that got killed when my thermaltake tr2 430w (COUGH COUGH GX270_USER) blew up, well it had 3 junfu caps on it. way over by the sata ports so not completely perfect
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Old 09-05-2010, 01:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

.
Nice job GX270_user!
You kept it all purdy and everything!
.
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Old 09-05-2010, 01:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Quote:
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@PCBONEZ: my intel d955xbk that got killed when my thermaltake tr2 430w (COUGH COUGH GX270_USER) blew up, well it had 3 junfu caps on it. way over by the sata ports so not completely perfect
I can't say anything about current thermaltake offerings because I haven't looked at any.
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Old 09-05-2010, 01:58 PM   #38
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

i meant i found the JUN FUs on the intel mobo by the sata ports-the psu was a whole different story
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Old 09-05-2010, 02:13 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

Intel doesn't use Jun Fu or any other non-Jap cap so either it wasn't an actual Intel board or some misguided moron tech put them there.
.
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Old 09-05-2010, 02:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: Dell Optiplex SX280 Weird problem!!!!

well they were on there. i cant argue with that? do you want a picture?
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