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Old 08-05-2011, 10:50 PM   #21
ajcox1234
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Here's what I'm purchasing:
Great American Brand Soldering Iron, 7", 120V, 60W - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_4371wt_1031

1000uf 16v Rubycon MCZ 10mm x 16mm 105C MBD Capacitor - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1282

6mm Tin Lead Soldering Solder Wire Rosin Core US - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1835wt_1265

Solder-Wick Soder Remover Desoldering Braid Wick Rosin - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1512wt_1265
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajcox1234 View Post
I also have an anti-static wrist strap, should I use that?
Don't really need to doing caps.
As caps hold a charge on purpose they more or less ARE static.

Do remove the CMOS battery while you do the recapping though.
Helps keep the BIOS from getting scrambled.

The 1000uF MCZ is a better choice.
.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Thanks, I was kinda thinking of removing the CMOS battery, I'll buy the parts, recap the board and see if I kill the board or not!
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:00 PM   #24
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajcox1234 View Post
Here's what I'm purchasing:
Great American Brand Soldering Iron, 7", 120V, 60W - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_4371wt_1031

1000uf 16v Rubycon MCZ 10mm x 16mm 105C MBD Capacitor - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1282

6mm Tin Lead Soldering Solder Wire Rosin Core US - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1835wt_1265

Solder-Wick Soder Remover Desoldering Braid Wick Rosin - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1512wt_1265
Looks good for a first go at it.

See if you can find some junk board [from old radio or whatever, anything] to practice on before you attack the actual mobo.
Most boards are thinner than mobos so it's not exactly the same, but close enough.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

I have an old Logitech wireless mouse receiver with a few G-Luxon capacitors, I'll remove a cap from that and than solder it back in a few times.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

That works.
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:30 AM   #27
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Just to get the hang of soldering and de-soldering for the first time!
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:40 AM   #28
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Correction! That Nichicon is an HN! NOT HM!! I thought it said HM before I took the motherboard out for the first time, that date code is still correct!
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Old 08-06-2011, 05:26 AM   #29
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

I thought you just ordered a soldering iron,, like hours ago.
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Old 08-06-2011, 05:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Yes, I did, but I took the motherboard out of the case to have a better look at the cap.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:51 AM   #31
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Sorry I read #27 wrong.
Thought it said you just did it.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:51 AM   #32
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

I found a Rubycon YXB 10V 1000 uF, best of all, there are 2 of them so if it is the PSU and it kills the first YXB I can get a new PSU and put another YXB there. I'm of to Radioshack to get what I need instead of eBay, if they have what I need.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:44 PM   #33
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Rubycon YXB is not anywhere low enough ESR to replace an HN or even an HM with.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:16 AM   #34
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

The Nichicon caps from China aren't bad enough to call counterfeit with certainty but they don't look right to me.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Agree.
Can't see anything definite but they just don't look right.
Possibly the color is just off in the photo but they also aren't showing enough of the bung or the vent at all.
.
Hard to say with that one.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

I didn't use the YXB's, I found out that the HM and HN series had problems until 2005, that HN has an 05 date code so it's probably affected, the voltages on the PSU are fine so I think it's just the cap itself.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

No.
AND, if you read back you'll see I explained this to you in post #4.

HN and HM had problems from 2001 thru 2004.
Nichicon announced the problem at a press conference in mid 2004 and all the defective caps [that weren't used yet] got recalled.
- This was widely reported in the News at the time.

2005 caps were not affected at all. - None of them.

There are a bunch of hyper-paranoid twits running around that -guess- what the date was and they're wrong.
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:14 AM   #38
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

I'll just get a 10v 1000uF MCZ and recap it.

Soldered and de-soldered 7 Rubycon and Chemi-Con caps on an old power supply.

Pretty easy, soldering and de-soldering was easy, took a few tries to make the joints look nice, than de-soldered and soldered all 7 caps again using the method and all the joints look like all the other joints that I didn't mess with.

I hope all goes well, find the leads on the back of the board, circle it with a black marker, de-solder it, clean the holes, insert the new cap and making sure the polarity is correct, solder the new cap in and cut the leads short.

Put it back together, press the power button and hope nothing goes boom and see if it POST's.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:44 AM   #39
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

Just ordered a 16V 1000uF Rubycon MCZ 10mm x 16mm capacitor on eBay, if ripple caused the HN to vent, let's hope that the MCZ can take more ripple for it being 16V.

If not, than it's time for a new PSU.

Are Lelon caps any good?
Or are they crap like CapXon, Taicon, OST, and Rulycon?
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:03 PM   #40
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Default Re: Bad Nichicon HM(M) on Dell Dimension 3000 motherboard.

An MCZ should do fine there.
-
You are stressing the comment I made about ripple a bit too much.
It was a -guess- about the condition/quality of your PSU.
If you feel I was right what you -should- do is get a better PSU.
Using a cap with a better Ripple rating to compensate for a noisy PSU is band-aid and a temporary fix.
[I intended to recommend a new PSU AFTER I was sure the mobo fix takes care of the immediate problems.]

Soldering on mobos is a little harder than on PSUs because they are thicker and multi-layer but if you've got it down for PSUs you should do okay with mobos.
It's only an adjustment to you 'style' once you have basic soldering down.
If you are having trouble the trick is to try and get more heat but for less time.
The PCB material transfers heat fairly slowly and the solder and leads transfer heat fast.
You want to melt the solder, get it done, and remove the heat before it has -time- to spread through the PCB.
That's why more watts in the iron helps in doing mobos.

MCZ and HN are comparable spec wise.
MBZ and HM are comparable spec wise.
MCZ and MBZ are no longer in production so when they run out they won't be an option anymore.

If this sort of thing is going to become your hobby you need to learn how to read data sheets.
Since MBZ and MCZ are out of production Rubycon took the data sheets off their site.
I will post them as they are sort of the standard other caps are compared to.
Also including the one for panny FJ as they are a good cap but the data was never officially made public.

Lelon are on the bad caps list [as they say].
Thus far there are no Chinese or Taiwanese brands considered good.
'Good caps' come from Japan, USA, UK.
[That is because of impurities in the Aluminum that gets used which depends on where [geographically] is was mined from and how it gets processed.]
Almost all Low ESR 'Good caps' come from Japan because the other 'good places' just don't make that many caps in that class.
--
The one exception: Samxon.
Samxon is a Hong Kong company with factories in China.
A few years ago they opened an plant to process their own Aluminum and since then they are considered to be good. From what I've seen the GD, GC, GA and RS series are fine and sometimes I use them Some of their lower end series have had problems but those may have been old from before they manufactured their own aluminum. I don't follow their lower end products close enough to know for sure, but I've been watching what goes on with RS, GD, GC, GA for 5 or so years and I haven't seen anyone have problems with them.
Still, they are kind'a new at making aluminum foils so if I can get Jap caps instead I will.
- Thing to know: There is a custom made Samxon RS 3300uF/16v in 10mm sold here that is sometimes the ONLY way to get a decent and appropriate spec cap in a PSU. [Specifically, when there is just no way to fit a 12.5mm cap in the available space.]
.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MCZ_.pdf (62.7 KB, 55 views)
File Type: pdf MBZ_.pdf (88.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf _FJ_.pdf (510.0 KB, 11 views)
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