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Old 02-06-2019, 10:03 PM   #1
PeTTs0n
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Default MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

I just recently got an MSI 848P Neo-V board, that I was planning to use as a basis for a P4 retro PC (due to a competent BIOS in terms of handling IRQs and PCI DMA through DDMA), and as soon as I got it I noticed that most of the caps had started bulging, no visible leaks though. The board POSTs perfectly fine, but I really don't feel like using it for any length of time with clearly bad caps.

I have never (I know, I'm ashamed to admit it as a lover of old PC hardware) re-capped a board, and it's all a bit overwhelming. What I have done is find out what caps are on the board;

Yellow: 13x1000F, 6.3V (Teapo, SM series?) - all of them bulging
Blue: 3x1500F 6.3V (OST, RLX series) - one of them bulging
Green: 5x3300F 6.3V (OST, unknown series - can't see any markings) - none bulging
Black: 4x1500F 16V (United Chemi-Con, KZG series) - none bulging
Plus 2 100F 16V caps of unknown make - due to their size I'm not really looking to replace them though.

And I've ordered a few replacements (only for the series' bulging so far, i.e. the ones marked in yellow and blue), what I didn't consider at the time of ordering was the ESR values. I don't have equipment (planning on handing it over to a local repair shop experienced in computer solder work, they don't supply their own caps though) to measure it, and therefore ordered caps I thought would be an ok replacement. I'd love some thoughts (and potential replacements for the ones marked in green and black) - unfortunately it's not too easy to find good suppliers here in Sweden, so I'll throw the main options I've found out there!

Replacements;

Yellow: 13x1000F 6.3V (Nichicon, VZ Series - UVZ0J102MPD) - ordered and received
Blue: 3x1500F 6.3V (Rubycon, ZL Series) - ordered and received
Green: 5x3300F 6.3V (Nichicon, VZ Series - UVZ0J332MPD) - not ordered yet
Black: 4x1500F 16V (Nichicon, PW Series UPW1C152MHD) - not ordered yet

Are these decent options? (I know the Rubycon ZL's should be, as I've seen them mentioned in a ton of places here. ^^) If not, any suggestions on alternatives, preferably available from a Swedish/Scandinavian supplier? I'd of course prefer to use the VZs I've received if at all possible, as well.

I'm not looking to push the 3GHz Prescott higher than stock in terms of clocks and voltage, and I'm planning on using 2xCorsair CMX512-4400C25 (specced at 2.75V), an FX5700 (again, stock specs) and a couple of PCI cards.

Using a known working (albeit not a high quality - might replace it soon) Corsair CX400 with low mileage to run it.

Thanks a LOT in advance for any input!
/Chris
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Last edited by PeTTs0n; 02-06-2019 at 10:11 PM.. Reason: Tidying up
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

sorry to be a party pooper but none of the caps u bought already are suitable nor will they fit.

the nichicon vz series u bought are general purpose caps and their ripple current rating of 390 mA RMS are unsuitable for motherboard use. the 1000F general filter caps on motherboards typically need a ripple current rating of around 1000 mA RMS or so and they will have to be at least of the low esr or low impedence type with high ripple current rating.

the rubycon zl series u bought are the wrong size. the ost rlx caps there seem to be 8x20 mm in size and the rubycons zl caps are 10x20mm in size. u bought caps that are too fat and they may not fit in there as there are two caps situated side by side with each other on the board.

the teapo sm caps should be replaced by 820F 6.3v panasonic fr, rubycon zlh or chemicon kzm 8x11.5mm caps. the drop in capacitance wont cause problems for general filtering of the minor rails.

the 1500F 6.3v ost rlx caps should be replaced by panasonic fr, rubycon zlh or chemicon kzm 8x20mm caps again.

the 3300F 6.3V ost caps are used for the cpu vrm output and the only replacements available are 2700F 6.3v caps from panasonic fr, rubycon zlh or chemicon kzm in 10x23mm or 10x25mm size. the decrease in the capacitance *could* affect overclocking of the cpu but since u said u arent overclocking, this wont be much of an issue.

the 1500F 16V kzg caps are a problematic series as well and they are used for the cpu vrm input. replace them with 1500F 16V caps from panasonic fr, rubycon zlh or chemicon kzm caps in 10x20mm size.

you may also have heard of the term "polymodding" if u have been reading around this forum but i have to say this board is not suitable for that as i see the blue vrm coils around the cpu having many turns on them which means the cpu vrm design uses a low switching frequency and therefore prefers high capacitance rather than ultra-low esr. u are also using a prescott cpu which is known to run hot so the cap series i stated above are 6000-10000 hour caps which should last the longest under the heat of the cpu.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Thanks a lot for the reply - lot to digest in something already overwhelming, but I'll start looking! :p (Fortunately the caps I got are still inside the return window, so I'll just send them back.)

Wouldn't Panasonic's EEUFR0J332L 3300F 6.3V work as replacement for the 5xCPU VRM output caps? FR series, 10x25mm, low ESR, right specs as far as I can tell? Am I missing something? ^^ Sorry if I'm asking silly questions, as I said - really a novice in this! If not, I found FR's with 2700F (EEUFR0J272L) instead - hope they're alright if the 3300F's aren't suitable!

Found the 820F 6.3V Panasonic FR you mentioned as well (EEUFR0J821), I don't feel truly comfortable going down in capacitance, but I trust the competence of you veterans here! I also found FR's with 1000F that seem to have the same specs otherwise, EEUFR0J102 - would they work instead?

Found 1500F 6.3V FR's again for replacement of the 3xOST RLXs - EEUFR0J152L, looking ok?

And then 1500F 16V FR's for the CPU VRM input - EEUFR1C152L, those looking ok too?

(I'm glad I found another Swedish caps supplier, they seem to have loads of Panasonics in stock.) Are these changes and options looking better? Again, thanks a lot for the input, I really appreciate it!
And I won't go into polymodding - I'm not gonna use the PC as a daily thing and need a huge lifespan increase, I just want it to last for some years yet.
Really glad I'm not running a 3.4GHz Prescott and/or OC'ing, as well. :p

Last edited by PeTTs0n; 02-07-2019 at 06:46 AM..
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeTTs0n View Post
Wouldn't Panasonic's EEUFR0J332L 3300F 6.3V work as replacement for the 5xCPU VRM output caps? FR series, 10x25mm, low ESR, right specs as far as I can tell?
as far as i can see from the fr datasheet i have, the fr series doesnt have 3300F caps in 10mm diameter. u might end up getting fakes if the source isnt reputable. exactly what is the name of the cap supplier there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeTTs0n View Post
I don't feel truly comfortable going down in capacitance, but I trust the competence of you veterans here!
it wont matter because the places it is filtering are low voltage, low current and low power. 820F is still within the 20% tolerance band for capacitors, so the replacements can be anything from 800-1200F.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeTTs0n View Post
I also found FR's with 1000F that seem to have the same specs otherwise, EEUFR0J102 - would they work instead?
again according to my datasheet, the fr series doesnt have a 1000F 6.3v part. u may end up with fakes if the supplier isnt reputable. make sure the size is 8x11.5mm or it may not fit due to other nearby obstructions like the agp or pci slot, mlcc caps or some other ic chips nearby. or if its too tall, it may interfere with and block the installation of some agp or pci cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeTTs0n View Post
Found 1500F 6.3V FR's again for replacement of the 3xOST RLXs - EEUFR0J152L, looking ok?
yes these are the right ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeTTs0n View Post
And then 1500F 16V FR's for the CPU VRM input - EEUFR1C152L, those looking ok too?
yes these are the right ones again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeTTs0n View Post
(I'm glad I found another Swedish caps supplier, they seem to have loads of Panasonics in stock.) And I won't go into polymodding - I just want it to last for some years yet.
if u wanna polymod u certainly can but do note that only the cpu vrm output is worth it to polymod. do note that polymers and wet electrolytics use different lifespan calculation formulas. polymers can also tolerate heat better than wet electrolytics especially since u are using a hot prescott cpu. a 5000 hour polymer will outlast a 10000 hour wet electrolytic, so u can certainly consider that since u want it to last as long as possible.

since the supplier has loads of panasonics, see if they have panasonic oscon sepc series 2700F 2.5v 10x13mm caps. these are the right specs and size poly caps to replace the ost 3300F caps. if they dont have it, then other polymer caps suitable are chemicon npcap psc series 2700F 2.5v 10x11.5mm caps or nichicon fpcap nu series 2700F 2.5v 10x12.5mm caps. do note that the drop in voltage rating is fine and wont cause issues because the prescott cpu voltage is typically 1.4v so 2.5v caps there are perfectly fine. even if u use a high-end 3.2 or 3.4 ghz northwood cpu which uses 1.55v, the 2.5v caps are perfectly fine there too.

Last edited by ChaosLegionnaire; 02-07-2019 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
as far as i can see from the fr datasheet i have, the fr series doesnt have 3300F caps in 10mm diameter. u might end up getting fakes if the source isnt reputable. exactly what is the name of the cap supplier there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
again according to my datasheet, the fr series doesnt have a 1000F 6.3v part. u may end up with fakes if the supplier isnt reputable. make sure the size is 8x11.5mm or it may not fit due to other nearby obstructions like the agp or pci slot, mlcc caps or some other ic chips nearby. or if its too tall, it may interfere with and block the installation of some agp or pci cards.
Cap supplier is ELFA Distrelec (been around for decades), and I found this on Panasonic's own webpage as well:
EEUFR0J332L
EEUFR0J102

Both measurements and other values look ok, if there isn't something I'm missing?

I hope they still look ok - if they fit the bill, that'd be great! Think I'll stay away from poly-modding, this time around.
Again, thank you so much for the input - if you ever find yourself in Gothenburg, I'll buy you a beer/alcohol-free alternative!

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Old 02-08-2019, 12:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

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Cap supplier is ELFA Distrelec (been around for decades)
yes, that is reputable cap distributor. elfa is listed here in badcaps as a place to buy caps from if u are in sweden. take a look at this thread: Where can I buy replacement capacitors

i guess u can go ahead and start buying your caps.

EDIT: things to remember when soldering the new caps, u must remove everything from the board before soldering. this includes the cpu, ram modules and even the cmos battery has to go. i think the cmos battery is dead anyway since the board is from 2004 and it still has the stock kts lithium battery that comes with the board from the factory!

also make sure your soldering iron is at least 60w or higher. computer boards use a shit ton of copper in them so much so that it is literally a heat sucker so u will need a high wattage iron to get around this otherwise u'll just be turning the board into a space heater instead of melting the solder...

Last edited by ChaosLegionnaire; 02-08-2019 at 01:04 AM.. Reason: added soldering advice.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Thanks for the input - will likely be turning it over to a local computer repair shop that has also been around for a few decades. Will ofc be stripping it, photo was just snapped as soon as I unpacked it, because I immediately spotted the bulging caps - and if I was to return it, I'd leave it the way I got it. (Learned that returning it would've cost me more than recapping it though...)

Hehe, new CR2032s are aplenty here - just built a P3 and a Barton rig, both had stock batteries.

Again, thanks a lot - feels good as a cap newbie to get some solid advice.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Good to see another classic motherboard saved from the e-dump. Let us know how it all goes.

Otherwise, I don't really have much else to add to what ChaosLegionnaire wrote here. Panasonic FR and FM caps (along with FS, in most cases) are fine for motherboard repair. Rubycon ZLH is another option for caps *not* around the CPU.

As for CR2032 batteries... I still have CR2032 batteries from early socket 7 motherboards that hold good voltage. With ATX motherboards, as long as the motherboard was connected to a PSU and plugged into the wall, the CR2032 batt won't get used. It only gets used when power from the PSU goes out. So keeping the motherboard on the shelf with the battery will drain it (a few months to a few years, depending on motherboard design.) For that reason, I always store mine without a battery.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

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Good to see another classic motherboard saved from the e-dump. Let us know how it all goes.

Otherwise, I don't really have much else to add to what ChaosLegionnaire wrote here. Panasonic FR and FM caps (along with FS, in most cases) are fine for motherboard repair. Rubycon ZLH is another option for caps *not* around the CPU.

As for CR2032 batteries... I still have CR2032 batteries from early socket 7 motherboards that hold good voltage. With ATX motherboards, as long as the motherboard was connected to a PSU and plugged into the wall, the CR2032 batt won't get used. It only gets used when power from the PSU goes out. So keeping the motherboard on the shelf with the battery will drain it (a few months to a few years, depending on motherboard design.) For that reason, I always store mine without a battery.
Fingers crossed, turning it over to a repair shop tomorrow! Glad to see that FR's were readily available in the same capacitance and voltage - even if they're not Japanese, I trust Panasonic over most Taiwanese manufacturers, especially when they're 15 years old.

Both the Barton and P3 probably hadn't been used for the past 10 or so years - had been sitting in some dirty storage, and they required quite a bit of love along with the new CR2032s! And compressed air, pure alcohol and new thermal compound, plus some new parts - after that, they're chugging along nicely. And it was a relief to see quality caps on the Compaq P3, as for the Barton (EpoX motherboard)... well, at least it's working now, might need to recap at some point.

Definitely good to see old stuff in use - it will only get harder to find replacements and parts as years go by. I'm so extremely bummed I got rid of my 486 with an original Sound Blaster 8-bit, 5 or so years back, when moving. Glad there's still people around to help out with the questions that may come from tinkering with them - thanks again!
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Got it back today (22nd of feb) with new caps (Panasonic 105C FRs) soldered on, and I gotta say I was pretty impressed with the solder work (to my untrained eye at least) - leads look nice and short on both cap and flip side of board, no excess/lack of solder, no visible heat damage anywhere, no stray solder... and it boots up and seems to be working fine!

I'm really grateful for all the input, thanks again!
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:49 PM   #11
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Nice work!
Is it just some local place in Gothenburg without a website or something larger?
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

Awesome! Great to hear it's working again.
Enjoy!
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: MSI 848P Neo-V recapping - suggestions and options?

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Nice work!
Is it just some local place in Gothenburg without a website or something larger?
It's a small place called Chip n Play (they do accept send-in work from all over the country though), I probably asked like 5-6 places who'd been around for 10+ years and seemed serious enough (I like to be on the safe side ^^), 3-4 of them had around the same price, but the reviews of this place seemed good and I'd heard of them before, so I took it to them. Definitely seems to have worked out!
Took a week (bit longer than they estimated, but they were closed due to illness earlier this week so no biggie), and was around 50 bucks - still a lot cheaper than getting an industrial S478 board with ISA and AGP, and unknown cap quality on top of that.

Now for the tedious work of trying to get PCI DMA to work in a pure DOS environment, oh the joy! At least I managed to get a quality PSU for it (Seasonic S12II 520W), so hopefully it'll keep going for some years yet!

Anyone want a set of Teapo and OST caps? Only slightly used, free if picked up!

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