Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > General Topics > General Capacitor Questions & Issues
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2018, 03:20 AM   #1
Y. Signal
Member
 
Y. Signal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
City & State: South Spain
My Country: Spain
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 60
Question Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

Hello. I'm looking for good quality general purpose caps rated at 105 C. After reading this forum I have concluded that these ones are good:

- Rubycon PX
- Chemi-con KMG

The problem is that the datasheets have ripple current data at 105 C while the ripple current data I have from the old capacitors is rated at 85 C. How can I know if the capacitor is appropiate without having ripple current ratings at the same temperature?
Y. Signal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 04:42 AM   #2
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 20,914
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

temperature effects life, not ripple.

dont overlook rubycon YXF
stj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 06:08 AM   #3
Y. Signal
Member
 
Y. Signal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
City & State: South Spain
My Country: Spain
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 60
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

Although Rubycon YXF capacitors appear as GP in the Rubycon catalog they are in the low ESR category. I'm looking for standard GP caps.

Are you sure of that? in the Chemi-con SME datasheet there is a Ripple Current Multiplier for Ambient Temperature. I can't find that data in Rubycon datasheets.

If the temperature doesn't effect ripple, are Rubycon PK way superior to Rubycon PX? both Standard GP, 85 C and 105 C respectively. PK would have considerably higher ripple current.
Y. Signal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 06:33 AM   #4
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 20,914
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

they are just bordering on low - i use them for GP applications.

i dont have pk or px datasheets in front of me,
but i have noticed in the past that 85' caps can have higher ripple than 105' - having said that, lower esr allows for higher ripple.
so your fighting a losing battle trying to get high ripple AND high esr.
stj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 06:46 AM   #5
Y. Signal
Member
 
Y. Signal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
City & State: South Spain
My Country: Spain
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 60
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

Maybe although ESR is not affected by ambient temperature it can affect the ripple current that the capacitor can manage?

I'm looking for 105 C general purpose not low-esr capacitors that are slightly better than these ones: Chemi-con SME, Nichicon VX and Rubycon CE W.

Ripple current for 100uF 16V:

Nichicon VX(M): 160
Chemi-con SME: 180

Possible alternatives:

Chemi-con KMG: 110
Rubycon PX: 130
Rubycon PK: 175

Rubycon PK seems adequate but it's only 85C. Rubycon YXF is way higher (~ 70%) with 250.

Last edited by Y. Signal; 07-17-2018 at 06:58 AM..
Y. Signal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 09:34 AM   #6
Andrew F. Ali
Badcaps Veteran
 
Andrew F. Ali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
City & State: Point Fortin
My Country: Trinidad & Tobago
Line Voltage: 125VAC 60Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 2,391
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

What application would you be using these caps that you are asking about? From what I am reading, either you are just guessing or just not sure what you are talking about. You have been given your answer but you still want more. Can't eat your cake and have it at the same time. Excuse me.
Andrew F. Ali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 12:35 PM   #7
brethin
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
City & State: Owensboro, KY.
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 1,711
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
temperature effects life, not ripple.
Exactly!
brethin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 02:06 PM   #8
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,856
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y. Signal View Post
Although Rubycon YXF capacitors appear as GP in the Rubycon catalog they are in the low ESR category. I'm looking for standard GP caps.
...
Assuming the GP part was used appropriately, "general purpose" means the application is not stressful. In other words, any part will work fine.

A part that is rated for 105C will tend to last longer than an 85C part in an environment that does not exceed 85C.

A lower impedance (or ESR) part will self-heat due to ripple current less than a general purpose part. But in a general purpose application the self-heating due to ripple current is not going to be very great.

All in all, you can use a good low impedance part like Nichicon PW or HE, or Nippon Chemicon LXZ or KY or KZE, or Rubycon ZL in a general purpose application and it will perform well. I would suggest the main factors you should look at are rated life, price, and availability. And consider, too, how long you want your device to last. A 5000 hour rated part (which will last much longer at temperatures below the maximum rating) may do as well as a 10000 hour part if the expected life of your electronic device isn't much greater than the expected life of the capacitor.

Personally, I've had good experience with all the series I listed above and would not hesitate to use any of them in a general purpose application, unless a general purpose part were significantly less expensive.

YXF is simply one of Rubycon's older (or oldest) low impedance series. Nichicon's PS series is too, sort of, and probably of similar performance. These series are probably especially useful in replacing the output capacitors of switching power supplies that are more than 20 years old. Their performance is similar to that of the original parts, and thus less likely to cause stability issues (which a much lower impedance part might do).
__________________
PeteS in CA

Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.

Where might is right
There is no right.
- Sophocles in "Antigone"
****************************
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
****************************
To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 02:52 PM   #9
Wester547
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,220
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
temperature effects life, not ripple.

dont overlook rubycon YXF
Electrolytic capacitors do have ripple current multipliers which allow them to conduct more ripple current at lower temperatures. The rather elderly but still pertinent KMG datasheet I attached (on page 2) shows the multipliers for lower temperatures (1x at 105șC and 1.75x at 85șC). What determines the ripple current multiplier is the maximum permitted core temperature rise, which varies anywhere between 40șC and the maximum category temperature (85șC and 105șC). At low temperatures, for 105șC capacitors, the maximum permitted core temperature rise can be anywhere from 15șC to 30șC, depending on the series and brand. At very high temperatures such as those the capacitors are rated for, the limit is around 5șC to 10șC - sometimes even as low as 3șC for some series (LXZ/LXY/LXV and a few others come to mind, according to NCC).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf KMG.pdf (133.0 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by Wester547; 07-17-2018 at 02:53 PM..
Wester547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 03:13 PM   #10
Y. Signal
Member
 
Y. Signal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
City & State: South Spain
My Country: Spain
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 60
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

Thank you all for the information, I'm trying to learn how to properly choose the best caps.

Some time ago I recapped two Sega Mega Drive consoles with Panasonic FR capacitors and after 1 hour of use they produced video noise. Later I recapped them with Panasonic FC and they worked fine, no problem even using them >4 hours in a row.

Since then I've used Rubycon YXF and apparently these capacitors work fine for this application, but I have noticed horizontal interference in a console (similar to this video but not so pronnounced) after 30 minutes to 1 hour of use. I'm not saying the YXF are the cause of this problem, but anyway I want to stay in the safe side using just slightly better caps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
Assuming the GP part was used appropriately, "general purpose" means the application is not stressful. In other words, any part will work fine.
Then in this case I suppose the Rubycon PX will be fine. Thanks.

Last edited by Y. Signal; 07-17-2018 at 03:17 PM..
Y. Signal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 07:29 PM   #11
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 20,914
Default Re: Comparing ripple current on capacitors with different temperature rating

hmm
i'd be wanting to hook the console to my tek wvr500
stj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums © 2003 - 2019
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:53 AM.
Did you find this forum helpful?