Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > General Topics > General Computer & Tech Discussion
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2013, 09:31 AM   #1
stevo1210
Badcaps Veteran
 
stevo1210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
City & State: Eastern coast
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240V 50Hz
I'm a: Student Tech
Posts: 4,009
Default CD music CD failed? :(

I have a Memorex CD with some music I recorded in 2001. The disc has been used every now and again and stored safely in a CD cover and closet as well. No exposure to heat or water etc.
Now I insert it into EVERY CD player and it fails to read. Drive spins up etc... no music detected whatsoever.
I swear it worked about 2 years ago. Disc looks perfect... no imperfections or physical damages or scratches.
What's going on here?!
__________________
Don't find love, let love find you. That's why its called falling in love, because you don't force yourself to fall, you just fall. - Anonymous
stevo1210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 10:04 AM   #2
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 12,810
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

seen this out of a lot of memorex media.
__________________
<--- Badcaps.net Founder & Owner

Badcaps.net Services:

Premade Capacitor Kits
Badcaps.net Capacitor Master List


Motherboard Repair Services


If you've come here in search of replacement capacitors or repair services, please use the links above.
----------------------------------------------
Badcaps.net Forum Members Folding Team
http://folding.stanford.edu/
Team : 49813
Join in!!
Team Stats
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 10:40 AM   #3
mariushm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
City & State: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 3,719
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

That's the lifetime of a compact disc. A disc will only last 4-6 years, maybe a bit more, and then it stats to get errors and die.

If you want long life (still around 10 year only), you'd have to look for genuine Taiyo Yuden discs, made in Japan... expensive but they last.
mariushm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 12:39 PM   #4
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 12,810
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariushm View Post
That's the lifetime of a compact disc. A disc will only last 4-6 years, maybe a bit more, and then it stats to get errors and die.

If you want long life (still around 10 year only), you'd have to look for genuine Taiyo Yuden discs, made in Japan... expensive but they last.
I've got some verbatim's I burned abck in the mid-90's that are still good...
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 12:45 PM   #5
dj_ricoh
Badcaps Veteran
 
dj_ricoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
City & State: London
My Country: uk
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 2,002
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
I've got some verbatim's I burned abck in the mid-90's that are still good...
with plextor writer with 1X speed
and if it had cd player incorporated in it...woow cool toy
dj_ricoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 12:52 PM   #6
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 12,810
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_ricoh View Post
with plextor writer with 1X speed
and if it had cd player incorporated in it...woow cool toy
It was on a Sony 2x caddy load SCSI. I do still have my Plextor 4x12 SCSI CD writer (rewrite wasn't even around then). Still works as far as I know.
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 12:13 PM   #7
ratdude747
Black Sheep
 
ratdude747's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
City & State: Madison, IN
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 16,075
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

At least it's not a PDO disc... those would bronze up due to shoddy disc quality...
__________________


(Insert witty quote here)
ratdude747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 01:27 PM   #8
RJARRRPCGP
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
City & State: North Springfield, Vermont
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 118-127V 59-63.5 Hz-> actualizar: pérdido de voltaje
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,897
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo1210 View Post
I have a Memorex CD with some music I recorded in 2001. The disc has been used every now and again and stored safely in a CD cover and closet as well. No exposure to heat or water etc.
Now I insert it into EVERY CD player and it fails to read. Drive spins up etc... no music detected whatsoever.
I swear it worked about 2 years ago. Disc looks perfect... no imperfections or physical damages or scratches.
What's going on here?!
Sounds like the "floppy disk syndrome". Where all of a sudden, wham! A disk error!
__________________
Asus P6T6 WS Revolution

Core i7 Extreme "Bloomfield" 965

Asus Strix GeForce GTX 970

Windows 7 SP1

SoundBlaster ZXR

Corsair TX850M PSU

Looks like I have a laptop that kills a desktop PC!

Received on November 4, 2019:
MSI GF63 Thin 9SC-649US


"There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

"Don't eat yellow snow!" -Salem

"did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747
RJARRRPCGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #9
mariushm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
City & State: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 3,719
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Those older discs have a thicker layer of chemical substrate and a thicker layer of reflective material.
They've also used better glue so the humidity doesn't get in so easily to damage the insides of the disc.

To get higher speeds, they use different formulations in the substrate which are more sensitive to light and humidity and thinner layers, so that the lasers can do the work in the short period of time they have.

So it's normal... current discs are no longer designed to last for ages.
mariushm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 02:45 AM   #10
lexwalker
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
My Country: Malaysia
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
Posts: 297
Lightbulb Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo1210 View Post
I have a Memorex CD with some music I recorded in 2001. The disc has been used every now and again and stored safely in a CD cover and closet as well. No exposure to heat or water etc.
Now I insert it into EVERY CD player and it fails to read. Drive spins up etc... no music detected whatsoever.
I swear it worked about 2 years ago. Disc looks perfect... no imperfections or physical damages or scratches.
What's going on here?!
Any exposure to bright lights, especially sunlight? That dye in the recording layer has degraded (broke down) already. As a consumer of large quantities of many different CDRs (and DVDRs), the quality of those CDRs are very dependant on the OEM or the actual manufacturer itself. I had some Memorex crap quite sometime ago, and for that batch the disc OEM was GigaStorage. If the batch's OEM was Prodisc then likelihood/chances the data was retained is very good. Over the years, I find these CDRs to be the most reliable (still retained data very well until today)...

- Kodak Ultima Gold 4X (original Kodak factory gold discs, not the later ones which were from another factory)
- Mitsubishi Crystal Black Sonic AZO 48X (under Mitsubishi brand, original Mitsubishi dye, manufactured by CMC Magnetics)
- Mitsubishi Super AZO 24X (under Mitsubishi brand, original Mitsubishi dye, manufactured by CMC Magnetics)

There are also Verbatim (same company as Mitsubishi) discs/batches that uses those Super AZO and Sonic AZO dye, but those have to check carefully before buying (as not all are the same type). Besides the above, had "Sonic Blue" CDRs whose batch OEM was from Prodisc that also retained data well. Not to say every Mitsubishi media is great, but they had bad ones also especially those Metal AZO ones (which eventually degraded also). Same goes with Taiyo Yuden, especially those early ones using cyanine dye are destined for data loss. And I would especially avoid Sony, especially those from Sony's own factory...

Last edited by lexwalker; 11-24-2013 at 02:47 AM..
lexwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 06:42 AM   #11
stevo1210
Badcaps Veteran
 
stevo1210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
City & State: Eastern coast
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240V 50Hz
I'm a: Student Tech
Posts: 4,009
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Found some software today called ISO buster. I didn't have much hope in some software recovering the files but low and behold, everything came up! WHAT.

All is good again. Imported content to my HDD!
stevo1210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 08:49 AM   #12
cheapie
null
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Walcott, IA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 124VAC 59Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 842
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

I have a giant spindle of Memorex-branded CD-Rs with this:
Code:
ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -11634 (97:26/66)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359846 (79:59/71)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 3
Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corporation
I also have some Memorex DVD+RWs with media code "INFODISC/A10". Are either of these any good?
cheapie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 01:14 PM   #13
SeanB
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
City & State: KZN
My Country: South Africa
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 41
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

I pulled a batch of Verbatim AZO disks out of a drawer where they have sat since about 2004, and all were readable with the 700Mb of data on each. After looking at the data they all went into the microwave for erasure prior to going in the bin. Hard to read the data when the metallisation layer is vaporised off.
SeanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #14
Kiriakos GR
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
City & State: Volos, Magnisia
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 380V three-phase 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 927
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Those Verbatim with the additional protective layers was also my choice too.

Basically it was known from the start that this chemical layer in them it is prone to fail.
Oxidation is the the main enemy.
The ppl back then was saying that only the rewritable are much safer to use for long term storage.
But their price it was flying high.
Kiriakos GR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 09:54 AM   #15
lexwalker
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
My Country: Malaysia
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
Posts: 297
Talking Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapie View Post
I have a giant spindle of Memorex-branded CD-Rs with this:
Code:
ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -11634 (97:26/66)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359846 (79:59/71)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 3
Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corporation
I also have some Memorex DVD+RWs with media code "INFODISC/A10". Are either of these any good?
Nopes, all no good. For CMC Magnetics very own discs, good only for short term storage and their quality is inconsistent (in other words sometimes OK, often bad batches). Over here, have a bunch of Imation with CMC Magnetics as OEM, and some have lost data while some has started flake (the top reflective layer peeling off). Generally stay with Mitsubishi (or Verbatim). Those Mitsubishi Crystal Black Sonic AZO are possibly the best CDR around nowadays, if you can still find them! My Kodaks lasted from the years when I was using SCSI CD writers with low 2X, 4X and 8X speeds (and that was before IDE CD writers started or becoming mainstream)!
lexwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #16
RJARRRPCGP
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
City & State: North Springfield, Vermont
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 118-127V 59-63.5 Hz-> actualizar: pérdido de voltaje
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,897
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexwalker View Post
Over here, have a bunch of Imation with CMC Magnetics as OEM, and some have lost data while some has started flake (the top reflective layer peeling off).
I only seen this problem with Memorex.
RJARRRPCGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 10:39 PM   #17
cheapie
null
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Walcott, IA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 124VAC 59Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 842
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexwalker View Post
Nopes, all no good. For CMC Magnetics very own discs, good only for short term storage and their quality is inconsistent (in other words sometimes OK, often bad batches).
That's what I thought. I noticed that they say 52x, but burns are unreliable at 48x (the top speed of my drive). 32x or lower (all the way down to 16x, the slowest supported by the disc) works fine. I usually burn them at 24x or 16x.

The DVDs support 2.4x and 4x, if I remember correctly. Burning them at 4x works fine. I have also not had any problems with any Memorex CD-RWs, regardless of manufacturer. I've tried the 4x (burnt at 4x) and 12x (my drive doesn't support 12x, so 10x) with good results.

However, I used to have an old Samsung 32x CD-RW drive that didn't like them. It would sometimes lock up during erasing and while writing the lead-in. Also, after the writing finished, it would sometimes be unreadable. Another drive I had that had issues was some old thing that received very heavy use during the 2 or so years it lasted. (I think it was an HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW) The problem that it had was that it would read and burn DVDs fine, and read CDs fine, but any attempt to burn CDs resulted in a readable but unmountable disc. I looked at the data it burnt with a hex editor, and it had filled the whole disc with 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA'.

Last edited by cheapie; 11-25-2013 at 10:48 PM..
cheapie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2013, 03:34 AM   #18
lexwalker
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
My Country: Malaysia
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
Posts: 297
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapie View Post
That's what I thought. I noticed that they say 52x, but burns are unreliable at 48x (the top speed of my drive). 32x or lower (all the way down to 16x, the slowest supported by the disc) works fine. I usually burn them at 24x or 16x.

The DVDs support 2.4x and 4x, if I remember correctly. Burning them at 4x works fine. I have also not had any problems with any Memorex CD-RWs, regardless of manufacturer. I've tried the 4x (burnt at 4x) and 12x (my drive doesn't support 12x, so 10x) with good results.
For CDRs, I would usually burn them at 4X, 8X or 16X speeds only even though the CDR is rated for 48X or 52X speeds. Likewise for DVDRs, I would use 4X and 8X burn speeds usually. Thus since I'm careful with my data, would prefer low and/or medium speed burning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapie View Post
However, I used to have an old Samsung 32x CD-RW drive that didn't like them. It would sometimes lock up during erasing and while writing the lead-in. Also, after the writing finished, it would sometimes be unreadable. Another drive I had that had issues was some old thing that received very heavy use during the 2 or so years it lasted. (I think it was an HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW) The problem that it had was that it would read and burn DVDs fine, and read CDs fine, but any attempt to burn CDs resulted in a readable but unmountable disc. I looked at the data it burnt with a hex editor, and it had filled the whole disc with 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA'.
For that Samsung drive, could be optical pickup sensitivity problem/issue. As for the latter, could either be drive firmware issue (to support newer or unknown CD/DVD media) and/or simply bad laser.
lexwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2013, 06:15 PM   #19
cheapie
null
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Walcott, IA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 124VAC 59Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 842
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexwalker View Post
As for the latter, could either be drive firmware issue (to support newer or unknown CD/DVD media) and/or simply bad laser.
A firmware update was available, but installing it didn't help. It would burn brand new DVDs perfect every time, but wouldn't burn ANY CDs properly.
cheapie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2013, 06:01 AM   #20
Hondaman
Badcaps Veteran
 
Hondaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
City & State: Clarksville, Indiana
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120V 60Hz
I'm a: Forum Junkie
Posts: 769
Default Re: CD music CD failed? :(

I hate to say it, but we're going to have to keep moving to new formats to keep our data readable.

I paid WAY TOO MUCH $$$ for Travan-4 tape under Win 3.1, and it was junk. I welcomed the capacity and ease of my SCSI CD-burner and I still have it (along with EIDE and SATA DVD-R/RW). Now maybe I should use a combination of CD/DVD and RAID or multiple USB hard drives. I should keep an old PC around for IDE drives, until all the data is safely on SATA drives or even SSD. And CD-R and DVD-R discs should be kept in a dark cabinet in the basement.

I have heard that burning at around half the maximum speed of your burner gives the best burn. Cheap modern media could still hurt you though.

Nero CD-DVD-Speed used to be freeware, testing the blocks on your media. But the free, old version may not work with modern versions of Windows or modern burners. Does anyone know of any good, up-to-date alternatives? It's important to test so we know when to burn to new media -- before the old media dies !!

Last edited by Hondaman; 11-26-2013 at 06:09 AM..
Hondaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums © 2003 - 2020
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:28 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?