What is the easiest circuit board software to use

[sam_sam_sam]

I finally bought a laser printer a couple weeks ago
I want to design some simple circuit boards
using the paper that desolves with water

Or is there a better way

I also need the circuit board software as well
can you recommend some software that is not real hard to use
with a decent part library that you do not have to buy separately

Free would be nice to try before buying the software

Thanks

[Curious.George]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

I finally bought a laser printer a couple weeks ago
I want to design some simple circuit boards
using the paper that desolves with water

Or is there a better way

A lot will depend on the quality of boards you're looking to create. You won't get a soldermask, silkscreen, etc. if you "go cheap". And, there are probably considerable restrictions on design rules -- no fine line geometries, etc.

OTOH, there are several service bureaus that will crank out decent boards "for cheap" -- esp if you're looking for just a small number of them (e.g., a dozen)

I also need the circuit board software as well
can you recommend some software that is not real hard to use
with a decent part library that you do not have to buy separately

Free would be nice to try before buying the software

Thanks

Lots of options but it again depends on your ultimate goal. If you're just trying to be a hobbyist and STAY a hobbyist, your needs will differ from someone who wants to learn the skill and then peddle it, commercially.

Look at the free/starter version of DIPTrace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DipTrace) to see if that's enough for you or if you're likely to need more capabilities.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

For now just doing for a hobby

I want to check the board that I design to see if it works and if it does then send it to one those manufacturer house for quantity of more than one

At least that is the plan for now

[stj]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

kicad, or eaglecad 7 (before it got taken over and bastardised by autodesk)

[Curious.George]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

For now just doing for a hobby

I want to check the board that I design to see if it works and if it does then send it to one those manufacturer house for quantity of more than one

At least that is the plan for now

Again, it will depend on the types of boards you are planning on laying out.

If you're trying to layout a power supply (lots of discrete components, each relatively large, large track widths, etc.), then you can get by with more of an "etch-a-sketch" approach.

OTOH, if you're trying to layout something with high degrees of integration, you'll probably need finer layout geometries (smaller pads, thinner traces, tighter clearances) AND higher pincounts (the DIPtrace freebie has a limit on number of pins in your design).

As complexity increases, you'll also want more back-annotation capabilities (and automation). E.g., if you swap gates in a package (pinout), you'll want your schematic to reflect the changes that you've made to the "design" due to the layout. If you want to renumber the components on the PCB (so they appear in a logical order), you'll want the schematic to be updated to reflect that renumbering.

You also will probably want a components library (schematic AND pcb) that has been created with some consistent set of rules. There's nothing worse
than discovering that "Bob" created the symbol for one component and "Tom" created the symbol for another -- and they're entirely different. Or, worse, that "Bob" knew what he was doing and "Tom" was a total amateur.

Many EDA programs have atrocious user interfaces. And, many have subtle flaws in their implementations that complicate their use -- almost always at a time when you're ALMOST finished with a design/layout. (E.g., an old version of OrCAD absolutely refused to let me manually route individual traces, even when turning the autorouter OFF and manually LOCKING the traces in place; it would promptly rip them up and put them where I didn't want them!)

Come up with a hypothetical (toy/simple) design. Then try each package in which you're interested to see how easy/hard it is to accomplish "something simple".

[Curious.George]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

kicad, or eaglecad 7 (before it got taken over and bastardised by autodesk)

A problem I've heard from colleagues who opted to use Eagle effectively required them to NEVER import designs (or portions thereof). Something about folks (hobbyists!) using pirated versions of Eagle and the portions of the designs are somehow "infected" with something that their (my colleagues') legitimate copies of the program would detect and "bad things" would happen.

But, I've never used Eagle so I can't comment from first-hand knowledge.

[kaboom]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

When doing the "toner transfer" method, I've found thin magazine paper to release fairly well. Even so, it's best to soak it in bath-warm water, with a drop or two of either liquid hand soap or dish detergent. Do not get tempted to pull the release off after 15 minutes or so! Yes, it may appear to be loosening up, but you'll ruin your mask.

BTDT...


Try a 50/50 mix of 31.45% HCl and 3% solution of H2O2.

Use an old glass pickle jar to contain your etchant if doing small boards. Mix it up right in the jar, and place the board in. With gloves on, hold the jar horizontally under tepid running water, swirling to circulate the etchant around and over the board. Go for another 30 seconds when you see bare PCB material where the copper has etched away.


GO OUTSIDE TO OPEN THE JAR! The fumes are rather nasty and choking...
You'll also need to "burp" the jar several times throughout etching to relieve pressure. ALSO do this outside; do this inside ONLY if you can just nudge the cover loose-then tight again. Keep it under the running water stream!

After etching, use a small basin filled with cold water to "drown" everything- you could actually open the jar underwater in the basin. But beware of the cloud of fumes displaced as the water fills the jar...

If you're any way unsure of how to deal with the resulting fumes and byproducts, do NOT attempt.

Otherwise, have fun... and try not to become circuit "board."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4tWEse2rDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8mHiFYmlBc

[stj]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

A problem I've heard from colleagues who opted to use Eagle effectively required them to NEVER import designs (or portions thereof). Something about folks (hobbyists!) using pirated versions of Eagle and the portions of the designs are somehow "infected" with something that their (my colleagues') legitimate copies of the program would detect and "bad things" would happen.

But, I've never used Eagle so I can't comment from first-hand knowledge.

i was hit by that.
what happens is if it detects a bogus reg key or hack is used then it fucks all the grid-point data on the saves.
you still have all the parts and traces, but it looks like someone threw it in a sack and stamped on it!!

[Curious.George]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

i was hit by that.
what happens is if it detects a bogus reg key or hack is used then it fucks all the grid-point data on the saves.
you still have all the parts and traces, but it looks like someone threw it in a sack and stamped on it!!

But I've never understood how importing "data" (netlist/layout) would screw up the executable. It's as if the pirated copy that created the "data" somehow "infects" it -- so that when it is transfered to another, legitimate, copy of the program, it screws things up.

[I'm not sure if it screws up the design into which it is imported or permanently "corrupts" the legitimate copy of the application]

I'm dragging this out of "deep memory" so no idea as to the actual details that were recounted to me, at the time (my solution was just to avoid Eagle -- easy given that none of my clients were using it!)

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

I looked into getting Eagle software but I am not thrilled that you have to $15.00 a month or $100.00 a year) for something that I might use once in while

What happened to the software that you payed one price for it and you are done

[Curious.George]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

I looked into getting Eagle software but I am not thrilled that you have to $15.00 a month or $100.00 a year) for something that I might use once in while

What happened to the software that you payed one price for it and you are done

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "subscription" model -- esp as there are many varied tools that I only use occasionally with which I'd hate to "keep current"; I'd rather cling to something tried and true (even if it has warts) than risk having to learn about a continually evolving set of problems.

With most EDA tools, there is a lot of inertia to keep you with a particular product/vendor/release. In addition to learning the quirks of how the tool works (or, doesn't work), you have time and energy invested in building component libraries, "subassemblies" that you can reuse (e.g., portions of a schematic that you can "lift" into a new design), etc.

I had one client contact me because they had upgraded their version of a schematic/PCB tool and could no longer modify the schematic and board layout that I had done for them in the "previous" version of the toolchain.

Point being: you want to put a bit of thought into which tool(s) you "settle on" as you may end up clinging to them for a long time!

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "subscription" model -- esp as there are many varied tools that I only use occasionally with which I'd hate to "keep current"; I'd rather cling to something tried and true (even if it has warts) than risk having to learn about a continually evolving set of problems.

With most EDA tools, there is a lot of inertia to keep you with a particular product/vendor/release. In addition to learning the quirks of how the tool works (or, doesn't work), you have time and energy invested in building component libraries, "subassemblies" that you can reuse (e.g., portions of a schematic that you can "lift" into a new design), etc.

I had one client contact me because they had upgraded their version of a schematic/PCB tool and could no longer modify the schematic and board layout that I had done for them in the "previous" version of the toolchain.

Point being: you want to put a bit of thought into which tool(s) you "settle on" as you may end up clinging to them for a long time!

Can you recommend something that would fit this bill

[stj]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

use old eagle, or kicad - they are the only options you can trust not to change into subscription-spyware.
eagle(old) because its dropped but stable,
kicad because it's open-source.

[Curious.George]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

Can you recommend something that would fit this bill

Your wallet will largely dictate. I have several different EDA suites, here, but that's part of what I do for $WORK -- so, their costs were just "business costs" that I treat as long-term "investments".

I have to maintain many old platforms (so a client can request changes to a design years -- sometimes a decade or more! -- after its initial release) so I'm "living with" a variety of different bugs/workarounds in different toolchains, Yet, none of the "issues" have prevented me from doing whatever needed to be done (keeping good notes is essential as I may not revisit a toolchain for many years: "Hmmm, how did I workaround this problem the LAST time?")

If you've got a small budget, then plan on using something free/low-cost (which may impose limitations on what you can do with the tool -- make sure you can live with those limitations going forward as updating to a more expensive license at a later date may force you to update to a later VERSION which could cause problems maintaining your previous designs).

Unlike STJ, I am reluctant to use FOSS tools for $WORK (with the exception of one of my compiler suites) unless I am also willing to assume responsibility for troubleshooting and patching (source code) problems I can't easily workaround. I much prefer the "for pay" relationship that comes with a commercial offering -- the vendor has a financial interest in keeping its customers happy. With FOSS, you have to HOPE someone maintaining the tool sympathizes with your need to fix a particular bug NOW (cuz NOW is when you need it -- not at the next 6 month release!). COTS vendors know that actual $WORK is being held up by their bugs so tend to squeeze out patches WHEN needed, instead of when CONVENIENT (even if the patch is only released to YOU!).

If you go the FOSS route, invest some time reading through posts from users to see how their comments/complaints have been addressed. Figure you aren't likely to get any BETTER treatment than they've received in the past...

(Often, the "cost" for free exceeds the list price of a commercial product)

Look at DIPTrace's freebie offer. Play with it and get a feel for how easy it is (and read forum to see what folks are complaining about). Colleagues who only occasionally do designs/layouts have seemed happy with the ease of use (you'd likely be willing to invest more learning a more complex UI if you were doing this 24/7)

If you can forever live with the limitations of their free license, then go for it. If you think you might have to eventually get a paid license, look at the price-point for their offerings and decide if they're within your budget. You don't have to keep upgrading just because the vendor wants to sell you a newer release (assuming you can live with the capabilities of the product "as-is")

[Note that this is not true for the "subscription" products that are becoming increasingly more common!]

[stj]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

a handy link:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/

[Agent24]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

I use KiCad all the time, it's my favourite. Highly recommend you at least give it try. It's the best featured free package I've tried.

[Curious.George]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

I use KiCad all the time, it's my favourite. Highly recommend you at least give it try. It's the best featured free package I've tried.

What criteria are you using to decide "best"?

What other candidates have you tried?

How complex/simple are the designs you've produced?

You can throw together a board with something as crude as "smartwork" (if it even runs on modern OS's) -- but I wouldn't want to embrace it for ALL my needs. Which means I wouldn't want to invest much in building libraries and a process around it!

[Agent24]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

What criteria are you using to decide "best"?

What other candidates have you tried?

How complex/simple are the designs you've produced?

You can throw together a board with something as crude as "smartwork" (if it even runs on modern OS's) -- but I wouldn't want to embrace it for ALL my needs. Which means I wouldn't want to invest much in building libraries and a process around it!

It's the best for me because it does everything I need/want, does it well, and does it for nothing.

I've tried Eagle and hated its lack of online DRC & boardsize\layer limits (for the free version), and I found gEDA to have a horrible interface.

I stopped looking after I tried KiCad because I didn't need to continue.

I should have been clear, my previous post was really in reply to sam_sam_sam, considering what he'd asked for, and I'd say KiCad would fit the criteria nicely.

I want to design some simple circuit boards
using the paper that desolves with water

I also need the circuit board software as well
can you recommend some software that is not real hard to use
with a decent part library that you do not have to buy separately

Free would be nice

If he wanted to design a PC motherboard with 12 layers, I'd say try something else. Not that you couldn't do that in KiCad, but I expect you'd want a tool with a bit more advanced auto-routing functionality.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

Two things I am looking for in the software I going to use

Frist is the parts library does it have a lot of parts or do you have to make them your self
and how easy is it to use

Second is am I able to once I know that the CAD board will work that I can send it to fab house and have 3 or 4 board made or more from the drawing that I made

[stj]

Re: What is the easiest circuit board software to use

well that's eagle & kicad again.