Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Considering that you need the fridge in service, capacitors are cheap, and the caps are 11 years old, why are you even bothering to troubleshoot? Just replace them all, and if there are any relays on the board, Id replace those too.

As far as ac caps go, I havent ever seen a pcb mounted AC cap in an appliance. AC caps tend to be large and screw terminal or use quick disconnects.

Hi clearchris

I am a total newbie when it comes to electronics so please forgive my lack of understanding. That lack of understanding prevents me from just taking the bull by the horns because I do not want to blow anything up.

I understand caps are very cheap. That is not the issue. When I went onto RS Online they have DC and AC caps for sale so that naturally raised a valid question.

Would I be right in assuming that a cap with DC would have 100VDC on it rather than 100V? I don't think I am right because if I was, all of the caps listed above would be AC because they do not have DC marked on them and this would go against your information here.

Also, the photos in the RS catalogue do not differentiate between AC and DC. They look identical to me hence the caution until I understand fully.

Can you identify the relays for me from the photos?

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Here is a wiring diagram from the back of the fridge.

I've no idea what the relay looks like or where it is.

[Behemot]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

some are mounted near hot resistors.
replace all.
any lytic over 40 ohms esr is gone anyway.

No. Some small values like 0.22 and lower have normal ESR of 20 ohm or so. If they are also small (5 mm tall) and the most GP you can image (hello, JiangHai), their normal ESR might very well be around 40. So that ESR70 will not tell you anything. It may be 40.1 which is OK or also 150 which is KO. You never know.

There is one relay there, I can see, magnetic relay

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

I am building up a parts list.

C7 showed open circuit or low resistance.

I have now identified that as an EPCOS B81130 which was withdrawn in 2010.

Please can someone recommend a good alternative for this EMI Capacitor.

Here is the spec.

https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...c16e913b23.pdf

Please refer to my previous post with all the cap ratings in for full details of markings on C7.

Thanks in anticipation.

[Behemot]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

What's the value? I think the ESR70 cannot measure under 0.01 uF, the same as the ESR Micro. For that you need different device. But it is possible, if it is used in series, it often looses capacity and goes bad. For such purpose I would use some quality cap, Rubycon or Panasonic make foil caps. Make sure it is safety certified (X1, X2).

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

What's the value? I think the ESR70 cannot measure under 0.01 uF, the same as the ESR Micro. For that you need different device. But it is possible, if it is used in series, it often looses capacity and goes bad. For such purpose I would use some quality cap, Rubycon or Panasonic make foil caps. Make sure it is safety certified (X1, X2).

This is my problem Behemot. It may be fine but I cannot work out the rated capacitance from the markings on it.

It was superseded by EPCOS in 2007. I have emailed their technical department for information on suitable replacement because their literature does not have full details.

It states X1 in S4-X1M275V~ but like I said in previous post (not sure if letter X or W) then on side it definitely states X2.

Can you tell if it is in series from the board photos?

[budm]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

I would not worry about the safety X/Y safety caps (Line and Neutral, Line and safety Ground, Neutral and safety Ground), they are for AC line noise filter.

[Behemot]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Man you yourself identified there is capacitive linear supply in there and now you say you would not worry about the cap? ORLY? OFC these go bad, they are not meant for such usage, they loose capacity in time because of internal shorting and vaporizing the film and than the voltage behind them in series drops until it stops working. May be very well happening. This often happenes in wasching-machines or dish washers.

[budm]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Man you yourself identified there is capacitive linear supply in there and now you say you would not worry about the cap? ORLY? OFC these go bad, they are not meant for such usage, they loose capacity in time because of internal shorting and vaporizing the film and than the voltage behind them in series drops until it stops working. May be very well happening. This often happenes in wasching-machines or dish washers.

I am talking about the safety caps that are connected "(Line and Neutral, Line and safety Ground, Neutral and safety Ground) as post in post 47" not for the one for capacitive power supply section!

[Behemot]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Yes, but one of those films caps is used for that, thats why I am surprised. May be the C7 in question, not sure, I have not studied it so close, I only see it is in tat area. If not it, than other one for sure.

[budm]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Virtual PCBA of what I can see so far.
This is not going to be easy to do the reverse engineering due to very fine lines and photos have to be super sharp.

[Behemot]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Sooo it's the other one

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Virtual PCBA of what I can see so far.
This is not going to be easy to do the reverse engineering due to very fine lines and photos have to be super sharp.

Do you want me to email you some high definition photos directly?

As a newbie, I do not know how critical some specifications are for certain capacitors such as C7. I just need the LCD/LED display to stop flashing and for the beep to go away.

I have searched and searched for the proper service manual online but to no avail.

Hotpoint list one but the information on their page is very vague.

A friend who repairs fridges had a FFA45W repair manual from memory. I believe that had some wiring diagrams in but don't think it had anything relevant relating to this board. I will have a dig around for it.

It turns out as I was looking for the photo of the wiring diagram from the back of the fridge yesterday that it seems I start looking into the fridge problem every May and have done for the last FOUR years!!!

Yet the fridge still soldiers on! One reason I really want to keep it running is because it is a pre lead-free solder fridge and I figure it has a lot more life left in it yet.

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Virtual PCBA of what I can see so far.
This is not going to be easy to do the reverse engineering due to very fine lines and photos have to be super sharp.

In fact, if you wish you can take a look at the links to my Dropbox on Post 7 if you want high definition photos.

I uploaded them before Behemot pointed out that I should not be linking to photos offsite!!!

Also, I found the alternatives to the C7 cap BUT I have no idea what the rated capacitance is.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/passiv...455,4294466083

[Behemot]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

It should be written in there, what does it say?

[budm]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Can you point out which one is C7?
C13 small rectangular blue cap is for the Capacitive power supply.
The one connected between Line and Neutral is for AC noise filtering, is that the one?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...7&postcount=51

[clearchris]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Speaking as a dabbler who has made many repairs on this level, I would completely ignore the box type devices and replace all the round electroyltics. They are all dc unless you see something to convince you otherwise. The uf rating should be the same but you canincrease the rated voltage so long as the higher rated cap.will fit.

If that doesnt get you working again, then you can worry about the other possibly hard to source parts.

Id also suggest sourcing tthis stuff locally if you can. Its a lot easier than sifting through the online catalogs if you arent 100% sure what you are doing.

Its just a fridge, Id sub in general.purpose caps.

In aged electronics the electrolytics are a pretty good bet.

That said, all the other guys here probably know more about electronics than I do, but that hasnt stopped me from fixing all manner of things.

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

Guys! Guys! Guys!

I have repaired my first ever electronic item!

I am 'over the moon' with joy.

See attached photo.

The fridge display is NOW working.

I just bought a pack of mixed capacitors from Maplins for £9.99 as I was getting fed up with going through online catalogues for capacitors.

I replaced the 3 Teapo ones with equally poor quality capacitors with only 85degC rating instead of 105 just as a test and IT WORKS!!!!

I will now order in some high quality capacitors to change them with. I am guessing that these should last a year or two even with the lower temperature rating.

Man I am SO happy and the missus will no longer have to close the downstairs door to muffle the incessant beeping!

Thanks to all who held my hand through this journey.

Is there somewhere I can donate to the forum to help with running costs?

[stj]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

wtf is the "umbrella on a beach" symbol about?

[Rhothgar]

Re: Hotpoint FFA47X Fridge Freezer

wtf is the "umbrella on a beach" symbol about?

That's telling me that I deserve a holiday after learning so much about electronics in the last two weeks!