8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Hi Toasty,

I think, for the time being, I would prefer focus on my PSU and not replace any more caps.

My PSU is:

FSP350-60UMDN 350W Power Supply
FSP Group
Model No.: FSP350-60UMDN
AC Input : 115-120V 10A, 50/60Hz
Max Output Power : 350W

Only $27 at that site! I have opened it up and looked at the caps. They show no visible signs of stress. There is a hard yellow substance (not glue) see pic which was put (I think) around on the inside of the unit as a stabilizing element.

The only thing I did notice was a tiny bit of scorching on the white wire leading to the “on – off “ switch, right where the wire is soldered to the switch.

I have not checked the PSU's output voltages, but will focus on finding a source on how to do that today. If you could point me to one or give me a hint that would be appreciated.


Hi Lucky13,

I did not install those heat sinks on the MOSFETS. I looked closely at them because of your question. Might the heat sinks be glued on?

I do own a multimeter. It measures OHM from 200 to 2M, DCV 2v to 500V, ACV from 200V to 500V. DCA 2mA to 200mA.

Do you agree with the following quote?

.....Dying MOSFETS often emit flames or blow-out...... What that means is that a defective unit can usually be spotted visually. They show a burned hole or 'something black' somewhere.

If you agree with this it might point me in the direction of getting the heat sinks off to have a look at them. Regarding checking them with a meter, it seems that if they are measured in an incorrect manner they can be broken.

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Hard substance is a stabilizer. Correct!

Scorching is from factory solder job. No problem.

Regarding MOSFET quote - sometimes yes, sometimes no. Tires go flat sometimes slowly, sometimes blowout. Same here.

--------------
Voltages are simple. Record the voltages to 1 decimal place (12.3). No higher precision is necessary.

-Hook PSU up to your comp as normal.
-Do -NOT- turn comp on
-Make sure power switch on PSU is on. You may or may not have an LED on mobo that lights when PSU is on.
-Set your meter to the DC Voltage range that will include at least 15-25 volts.
-Black lead (-) of meter to BLACK wire socket on any 4 pin peripheral connector such as used for hard drive or cd.
-Red lead (+) to PURPLE wire thru back of big mobo connector = +5 volts (standby)
If much above 5 volts (i.e. reads 6 volts or more) -+-STOP-+- Go no further. Reply back here with voltage.

-If previous step reading is okay, NOW Power on comp
-Red lead (+) to ORANGE wire thru back of big mobo connector = +3.3 volts
-Red lead (+) to YELLOW wire in same peripheral socket = +12 volts
-Red lead (+) to RED wire in same peripheral socket = +5 volts

-Shut down comp as soon as you're done with your readings.

If these all check out close to specified voltages, then the PSU is likely to be okay at this time. Again a visual inspection of the caps does not give them a clean bill of health.
----------------

Removing the heatsinks from the MOSFETs may be a bit of a pickle. You could end up causing more damage(mobo) than the effort is worth. Plus, if you do get them off, you may remove the device ID markings. Then, exactly what glue to use to reattach them, I do not know.

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

the measurements looked good with yellow being a smidge under:

Purple w/computer off = 5.0

Orange w/ computer on = 3.3
yellow w/ computer on = 11.86
red w/ computer on = 5.1

Here's a quote I found which got my attention:

assuming all other parts are good, a motherboard cant send
a beep to the speaker unless it has a working cpu.

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

I forgot to mention -

I had a memory bubble up today. When I purchased my video card, a year ago, I saw that it required a 400W power supply. I checked, my power supply, saw that it was 350W and decided to let it ride. (Which I may have done - off a cliff.) Oddly, this site indicates that only a 350W power supply is required.

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Voltages look spot on.

Beeps are independent of CPU. Part of BIOS (IIRC).

I should've asked these questions long ago. Better late than never...
1) Do you have the CPU heatsink and fan attached to the CPU when you test this? If yes, we're fine.

2) Are you discharging the power supply before you touch anything in the system. This means:
a) System off
b) Plug pulled from back of PSU or cord unplugged from mains
c) computer ON switch pressed. Front panel lights usually glimmer then fade out. Fans may spin for a second.

Again, if yes, we're good. If you didn't do this just one time, it could/will toast the mobo.

Can you test the CPU in another system? Don't try a good one in this mobo as you could kill it.

Okay. Just for fun, remove the memory, all peripheral cards, and disconnect all the drive connectors from mobo. Clear the BIOS (move the BIOS Clear jumper, system on, system off, move the jumper back). See your manual if not sure how to do that.

Now try to start it. Any beeps?

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

I had the heat sink attached but not the fan. I discharged the computer and re-did testing with the fan. Voltages were the same for the new testing that I did.

I removed memory, all peripheral cards, and disconnected all the drive connectors. Cleared the BIOS. No beeps. I had to find a new copy of my m/b manual because the link on the previous page wasn't working.

I know that the speakers I have plugged in are working, because I hear an electronic pulse when I turn off the computer.

I will make it a goal to test my CPU in another system tomorrow.

As I've been doing this testing, I've noticed something. If I turn off the computer by holding in the front button for five seconds, the next time I turn on the computer there is a weird one or two second pause. After the pause,the power comes on and stays on.

If I use the switch on the back to turn off the computer, the next time I turn it on (with the button on the front) the little pause does not occur. This difference is probably immaterial, because either way I don't get bios beeps.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

When you turn off by front button +5vsb is still sending power to motherboard.
vsb = volts standby

When you use back switch the motherboard is actually unpowered.

NEVER work (add/remove parts) on a motherboard with +5vsb applied.
.

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Hi PCBONEZ,

You're comment certainly has me wondering - here's why:

I use two hard drives and connect and unconnect them depending upon whichever I want to use. When they were both connected I noticed that my system seemed slow.

On the morning that my computer quit working, I mistakenly turned on the computer when neither one was connected. Realizing my mistake, I held the front button in to turn off the machine. I then plugged in one of my hard drives, turned on the computer and arrived exactly at the point where I still am - no bios beeps, no signal to the monitor.

Do you have any knowledge about the degree of damage the +5vsb can cause? And, if one is going to hurt their system in this way, do you know specifically what they may have damaged?

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

As I said earlier: "If you didn't do this just one time, it could/will toast the mobo."

If that's the case (of when it died), then I think we are past the point of no return with your mobo. Caps may be a problem but are likely not the problem.

If you're "lucky" you toasted a MOSFET or 3. If unlucky, you burned a trace inside the mobo or you took out the Southbridge chip which has the IDE/SATA controller for your drives.

Time to go shopping...

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120398987713

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=360132783061

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

+5vsb does not go to hard drives.
It's purpose is to start the system remotely from keyboard, mouse, modem ring, LAN, front swicth.
So it goes to BIOS, chipset, USB, PS/2, add-in slots, and is a back-up to RAM.
Most of these switch to the regular +5v rail once the system starts.

Plugging in a hard drive in standby mode shouldn't cause your problem unless you did it so fast the voltages hadn't come down yet.

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

I may or may not have done it immediately. Your most recent comment makes sense to me because it was not the first time I had made the error.


Toasty,

Thanks for the links. I'm considering all options: re-buying the same board (easiest, obviously!), buying a new one (will require some research!!!), and even getting a new tower. I don't know what the shipping time is from England, but if I re-buy my board from one of the links you put up, I expect I'll have time to try re-capping the board I've got. I was counting the 1000uf 6.3v caps on my board just a while ago and feeling the call to action.

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Aware that the 5vSB does that but, the 12v & 5v supplies do go to hard drives. The problem occurred exactly after the connection was made. So, if not thru the controller, then where? In what was done, how or what would this cause the problem?

>>because it was not the first time I had made the error. <<
I think it gotcha this time...
Previous swaps were made with one drive connected. Having made this connection swap without the PSU "routine", but having that one drive connected before you did it, may have saved you in the past. This time you had no drives connected to the controller, but the 5v & 12v power were on the mobo and the drives.

Is it possible that a) the drive could have had enough power left in its board to cause this or b) the Southbridge did? Static perhaps? Just freak timing?

7-10 days is typical from UK.

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Toasty, I may have had one drive connected when I erroneously turned on the computer in times past. It was a very random arrangement on a day to day basis. I have a HD which would not fully boot up but I was able to access it as a storage drive (when i connected it). I do remember that neither one was connected on the day that catastrophe struck.

I have been studying mainboards for the past few hours and have an information induced headache. I have a question, I'm pretty sure I know the answer but just want to be sure:

A friend of mine has a socket 478 mainboard. I believe I am unable to test out my cpu in his mainboard because my cpu is socket LGA775, despite the fact that the are both Pentium 4. Correct?

Also, as I've been shopping for mainboards, I don't see where I will be able to plug in the components at the front of my computer. Do they just not talk about that in the sales descriptions? The sorts of connectors I'm wondering about are listed as JAUD1, JVID1, JL_IN1 on page 10 of my manual.

Here is one of the mainboards which I'm considering buying. I'm not a gamer so I don't need to spend a fortune on this. After all my research all I know is:

DDR2 will meet my needs
Board must accept Pentium 4 LGA775
Need FDD header
need SATA (don't worry about SATA2)
microATX form or smaller

One concern is that I once tried my graphics card in someone else's computer and it was too long to go into their PCI Express slot. I should probably look into that before I make the purchase.

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Socket 478: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_478

LGA775: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_T

I do not follow motherboards. When need arises I seek info only then and usually go somewhere between mid-high to high in review and recommendations. Last board I bought was 3 years ago. Others here who follow them more closely may have better recommendations.

Board replacement looks fine. Seems all the connectors are there. If in doubt, go to manuf. website and grab the PDF manual and see.

You will have issues with Windows since you are changing mobo model.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270364963946
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=360132783061
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120398987713

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

My links weren't good enough?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

They were dusty.

[Tinhorn]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

Hi Toasty -

Lord knows I don't want to say "Mission Accomplished" too soon, that's been done before and proved disastrous to the one who said it. But I am at a point where I have a little breathing room and I have a moment to thank you for all your help and patience.

I have just wound up around 20 hours or research, deciding whether or not to buy a tower or a cpu/mobo bundle or just a compatible mobo. During these hours I have made up my mind "for sure" more than once, (OK - it will be chipset p43- definitely!!) only to be slapped in the face by new information.

Along the way there have been a few red herrings: I saw a comment which implied that PCI Express Gen 2 slots were not backwards compliant. Of course, fearful that I'd have to buy a new graphics card, I had to check this out. It turns out there isn't a conflict, but it took me an hour to establish that!

I had one last dart in the butt yesterday morning at 3:00 AM when I was all set on a good MSI mobo, only to find out that MY Pentium 4 (cpu code SL7J6) WAS NOT compatible, which caused me to stalk off and go watch TV for an hour or so. Many MSI mobos are advertised on Tigerdirect and Compusa as being Pentium 4 compatible. It was you who told me to go to the manufactuer's site to read the manuals, and this cause me to stumble upon this info. THANKS!

After re-adjusting my mind to the thought that I'd being buying a bundle (since I'd already decided not to buy a refurb. mobo), it occurred to me to try a different brand. I found a Biostar with a VIA chipset which, according to the "cpu support" tab is compatible. I placed the order at 6am, the board was cheap enough that I bought the 2 year extended protection.

I eventually want a core 2 processor and a mid to high end mobo, but for now, financially, this is the step which makes sense for me.

Of course, I'm not out of the woods yet. At the sites where buyers can post comments and reviews, almost every mainboard I looked at had at least a few people who were hopping mad, unable to get their boards to post, claiming that "this board is a piece of junk," and warning everyone West of the Mississippi not to buy it. Even so, there's always hope that I'll be one of the lucky ones.

Thanks again, it was nice to know that there was someone out there trying to help me while my computer was flat on it's back.

This is a great website!

[Toasty]

Re: 8mm x 8mm 680uf 105 degrees - 16V?

You tell an excellent story!

"...which caused me to stalk off and go watch TV for an hour or so." Excellent! ROFL You just can't make that stuff up!

It's all fine and good, provided that your CPU & RAM are good. Sorry. There's that cloud again...

Toast

almost every mainboard I looked at had at least a few people who were hopping mad, unable to get their boards to post, claiming that "this board is a piece of junk," and warning everyone West of the Mississippi not to buy it

Yeah, imbeciles abound...
"Good job numb-nutz! Try putting the correct RAM in it next time."