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**PedroDaGr8** · 05-27-2007, 10:02 PM

Re: A good choice??

Why not the Intel Core2Duo 6420. It has double the cache 4M instead of the 2M in the 6400(which as we all know is quite important), and is often the same price on newegg as the 6400. I for the life of me can not figure it out, but I wouldn't complain.

Next, as for RAID 0 just plain and simple don't do it. It offers little if any help for gaming, and doubles your risk at loosing everything on your computer because if 1 drive is hosed the whole array is lost. There has been many discussions in various forums on RAID 0 and gaming, including hardforums. To quote "djnes" from hardforums:
"With real world testing, my game levels loaded about a second or two faster, but my seek times when up almost 20%." I think that sums it up pretty well. Increased risk with little gain, go with the bigger drive. Though RAID 1 may give you a slight decrease in performance with a great increase in reliability. That is for you to decide.
Definitely get a PCI sound card, on board sound blows when listening to music (you can hear induced noise from other traces), though there are a few exceptions (Soundstorm from nVidia and the asus(I think) boards with the built in Audigy chip). Supposedly the Via Vinyl chip is an inexpensive alternative to Creative Labs cards, though they don't do 3D sound for games as well as the Audigys do.

As for the PSU, I am not a PSU king like some of the others on here, my only advice would be to visit the forums at jonnyguru.com there are a wide variety of people who would be more than willing to help. A good PSU is an area you do not want to skimp IMHO. No need to risk damage to your system, I am not saying that the Thermaltake is bad, I honestly do not know.

**shadow** · 05-27-2007, 10:19 PM

Re: A good choice??

That is one nice system you got going there.

* There is a fair difference in performance between the 6400 and the 6600. However as far as I know at the moment, the 6400 is the best price per performance chip out at the moment.

* If you are going to buy a nice fancy motherboard with Crossfire, then you may as well use ATI cards so that that technology may potentially be used in the future (if not now if you buy two graphics cards).

Two Ethernet ports ports are so useless (well in my opinion) for a gaming PC. I know that the Gigabyte model can uses its two Ethernet ports together for a maximum speed on two gigabits per second rather than one. I would say it uses one port for upload traffic and the other one for download traffic. Each port has a maximum speed of one gigabit per second so together it is sort of two gigabits per second. However if such a technology exists on the Asus board, with what computers can you use it with? You will be very hard pressed to find a router that supports this technology or even another PC for a simple P2P network. Computers used as firewalls and/or routers would need two or more network cards, it would be shame to use such a beast of a system for firewall purposes.

I do not know anything about the stack cool technology at all, so I can not really comment about it. However you may consider getting the Asus P5B-V (which also has this technology), I know its based on the G965 chipset rather than the P965, however it seems to be a bit cheaper than the P5B-DELUXE. You can save a few pennies there if need be.

I am a bit confused about the recent trend on mounting huge copper heatsinks onto motherboards. In another thread on this forum, someone asked a question about a Gigabyte motherboard (with similar huge heatsinks). I found some pictures of an Asus board and posted them in that thread, and what I found was that the MOSFET's still point downward onto the motherboard (The all metal side of the MOSFET's are attached to the motherboard and not to the heatsinks). Therefore in my opinion the primary heatsink or the main contributor to dissipating heat is still the motherboard PCB and not the copper heatsink. The heatsink rests against the silicon part of the MOSFET. Therefore I believe that these heatsinks would not give a huge improvement in reliability or performance. However in an overclocked system, then maybe. Not to mention that it makes the motherboard damn heavy (I read that one of the recent Gigabyte motherboards weigh 1.26kg)

.

* RAID'ing hard drives gives a HUGE performance improvement. You will feel the difference if you are working the hard drive hard, something like video editing or anything that puts a big strain on the hard drive. I thoroughly recommend it. Especially since two smaller hard drives are cheaper than one big one or around the same price depending on what hard drive size you are looking for. However gaming is not one the things that seems to test the hard drive, you will not feel the difference in gaming speed at all.

* From other posts on this forum, Thermaltake power supplies are a bit like Antec. Crap caps, therefore a recap would be needed. I also recall one poster resurrected a Thermaltake power supply but found that the power supply could not be used in a modern system. He/she seemed to think that the rated wattage was bogus and that it was much lower. I will have to dig up that thread to confirm.

* Unless you are an audiophile, the difference between a built-in and an add-on sound card is fairly minimal. For gaming and playing music a built in sound card should be good enough (well it is for me). Depends how serious you are. On board sound cards are pretty crappy but good enough for most.

* No comment about the graphics card or the memory, both seem reliable and good. As I mentioned above, consider ATI cards if you end up getting a Crossfire supported motherboard.

Maybe you can get one of the very few SLI supported motherboards. However I think these motherboards cost a lot more.

**stevo1210** · 05-27-2007, 11:30 PM

Re: A good choice??

I found another Asus board that seems pretty good.
It's the P5B-E Plus. It doesn't have the 8 phase VRM or the 2x PCIe 16x slots, but it has the stackcool technology and best of all, every single capacitor on that board is a solid polymer cap.

But on the other hand, the Asus P5B-Deluxe is only an extra $20 and has 2x LAN, crossfire support and an 8 phase VRM.

Does anyone know what caps Asus boards use these days?? last time I installed an Asus P5B-deluxe board for a customer, they used KZG caps, solid polymers around the CPU.... but there were some caps in other areas branded "TK" if I remember correctly.

Thanks.

**WNG** · 05-27-2007, 11:46 PM

Re: A good choice??

IMHO, Thermaltake is more flash than function. As for PSUs, I have a Toughpower 350, and after attempting to power an AMD Athlon XP-2100+ Palomino core, I find them suspect. 350W should have been enough, but the system was erratic. It couldn't run stable, what was a basic system build. I believe it was over-rated. I found no bad capacitors.

**shadow** · 05-27-2007, 11:46 PM

Re: A good choice??

I found a few motherboards if you are an NVIDIA fan.
The Asus P5N-E:

http://au.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=...74&modelmenu=1

The Asus P5N32-E SLI

http://au.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=...59&modelmenu=1

There is also an Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus model.

The first one is around AU$180, the second around AU$300 and the third is around AU$280.

These would be a good choice if you are an NVIDIA fan and want SLI capabilities. This would be ideal for a gaming PC. Buy one now, then buy another one later when you have more cash on hand and use SLI to dramatically increase performance. If you wait awhile a second video card should be much cheaper than it is now.

**stevo1210** · 05-28-2007, 11:46 PM

Re: A good choice??

I have never used an nvidia chipset before so i don't know how well they perform. I'm used to using an Intel Chipset anyway.... They are usually fast and reliable chipsets. Nearly every board that I have bought in the past uses an Intel chipset.
Anyway, if I do use crossfire cards, Will I need a master card?? I heard that some models use a master card and a secondary card and connected by a wire.

Thankjs.

**willawake** · 05-29-2007, 01:38 AM

Re: A good choice??

i have a P5B-E here. It has fujitsu polymers for vcore, chemicon KZG, panasonic FJS, little chemicon KMG caps, one chemicon polymer, one rubycon YXG and two evercons.

**shadow** · 05-29-2007, 02:10 AM

Re: A good choice??

I have not heard of anything wrong with any of the NVIDIA chipsets. I found the wiki pages for ATI's Crossfire technology and NVIDIA's SLI technology. It is an interesting read. It says what is required to use both technologies and how they work.

Crossfire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_CrossFire

SLI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface

**starfury1** · 05-29-2007, 04:35 AM

Re: A good choice??

Hey Setvo1210

Cant answer the question directly from experience
(hopefully those that do know, will)

I am not into building game rigs either
( bit rich for my blood

)

but maybe this link may help
CrossFire - Experiences

have a look Here as well

Maybe a browse around here as well

I do remember there is an order to how these things are setup.

I would if its available download any manuals for MB and Video cards you are thinking of buying too

Google is your friend here so google whatever with "fault" "not working" "problem" etc to see what falls out

Also do spent a bit on a decent quality PSU and possibly a bit more beefier then you need for better head room and maybe a bit of future expansion.

(In other words give it as much consideration (may be more considering you building a gaming rig) as any other system component)

On psu's check out Jonny guru's

You may probably know the link sites but though Id post them anyway, just in case

hope the links are of some help to you

Cheers and I also hope it all goes smoothly for you

PS did find this on the second link

At first, things were a little cludgy with Crossfire: you had to buy a specifically marked "Crossfire Master" card, and pair it with a standard card from the same series. They also used a large 'Y-dongle' for intercommunication between the cards.

However, this changed when ATi released the Xpress 3200 motherboard chipset - now any two standard ATi cards could be used in Crossfire mode, with the notable excepton of the X1900 series, which still requires a Master/slave/dongle setup, although the latest X1950's are being released with small ribbon cables used to link the cards inside the case

**starfury1** · 05-29-2007, 06:49 AM

Re: A good choice??

ATI CrossFire Xpress 3200 Chipset

one article I found on it in relation to it ,AMD Asus A8R32 MVP
MB
Here

Intel Core 2
at toms HWS Here
Goes on to a DFI's LanParty UT ICFX3200-T2R.

So many chipsets and variations makes it hard to keep track of whats What these days

From what I gather this is new for the intel cpus and Asus dont have a MB with it...but not really sure

Anyway just some additional information to confuse you by

and anybody else that reads this

Iam already confused

**willawake** · 05-29-2007, 12:15 PM

Re: A good choice??

i think the intel *965 is a very good chipset

**bgavin** · 05-29-2007, 02:49 PM

Re: A good choice??

In my experience, Intel has always had the most stable chipsets, signal-wise. The difference between an Intel scope trace and one from VIA is quite revealing. Look for FSB throughput. This is where the work gets done. The fastest CPU in the world simply WAITs faster until the bus is free.

I've been an AMD guy forever, but don't do much call for custom building anymore. I went looking at popular boards, and was appalled at the number of board DOA comments posted by Newegg buyers. I helped my neighbor with an eVGA hot-rod board, and it was a substantial amount of grief.

No thanks.

RAID-5 is demonstrably faster for READ cycles, slower for WRITE. You will need 3 or more drives to do RAID-5, and a controller capable of it. I'm not a fan of RAID-0 or 1, so I avoid it.

**willawake** · 05-29-2007, 03:17 PM

Re: A good choice??

ugh i certainly wouldnt do raid with a consumer onboard chip.

**tazwegion** · 05-29-2007, 06:17 PM

Re: A good choice??

Is that Kingston the HyperX or ValueRam dual DDR2-800 kit?

I hope you're shopping around for the best prices, here's a list of online price comparison engines (specifically for Oz) you may or may not already know about

http://staticice.com.au/
http://shopferret.com.au/
http://shopbot.com.au/

Additionally, your choice of PSU retails at or around $40.00 AUD and is only capable of a single 12v 18A (max) output, how much juice does the 7900GS require on top of your HDD's, opticals & ancillories? Simply cutting back to 1 HDD & DVD Burner, would yeild sufficient cash savings to allow you to upgrade to a Silverstone 'Strider' 560w which has a massive 36A (max) single 12v output & is SLi/CrossFire ready for a mere $115.00 AUD (price quoted @ PC Maniacs)

Remember, the PSU is an often overlooked/undervalued piece of PC hardware when it's actually one of the most important... don't skimp on the important gear, you can upgrade your drives etc. later

FWIW I found an Antec 'Nine Hundred' Gamer's case (with 200mm top exhaust) for $165.00 (minus PSU naturally) after being told they retailed @ around $200 ~ $220

**shadow** · 06-01-2007, 02:41 AM

Re: A good choice??

Originally posted by willawake

ugh i certainly wouldnt do raid with a consumer onboard chip.

Is there any reason for this? The only RAID controller that I have dealt with is a nice expensive SCSI RAID controller with Seagate SCSI hard drives.

Looks like that Thermaltake power supply is not that good. Oh well.

You should consider trying out a power supply wattage calculator like:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

That one seems quite good, however it only calculates the required wattage for the 12V Rail. They expect you to dish out some cash to find out the required wattage for the 5W rail and 3.3W rail. Having said this, the 12V rail is used the most.

This should be able to give you a good estimate of how much power your new PC will use.

**stevo1210** · 06-01-2007, 05:09 AM

Re: A good choice??

Originally posted by tazwegion

Is that Kingston the HyperX or ValueRam dual DDR2-800 kit?

I'm going with the ValueRAM series since it is cheaper and offers reliable performance. The HyperX is probably better at overclocking etc. because it has heatsinks on the memory chips but i am not going to overclock my RAM, so it probably won't be nessasary for HyperX.

Originally posted by tazwegion

I hope you're shopping around for the best prices, here's a list of online price comparison engines (specifically for Oz) you may or may not already know about

http://staticice.com.au/
http://shopferret.com.au/
http://shopbot.com.au/

I'm buying my parts directly from the computer shop I work at so I can get the parts a fraction them cheaper than the RRP prices. Anyway, I still have to use shopbot to get some idea of the prices.

Originally posted by tazwegion

Additionally, your choice of PSU retails at or around $40.00 AUD and is only capable of a single 12v 18A (max) output, how much juice does the 7900GS require on top of your HDD's, opticals & ancillories? Simply cutting back to 1 HDD & DVD Burner, would yeild sufficient cash savings to allow you to upgrade to a Silverstone 'Strider' 560w which has a massive 36A (max) single 12v output & is SLi/CrossFire ready for a mere $115.00 AUD (price quoted @ PC Maniacs)

Remember, the PSU is an often overlooked/undervalued piece of PC hardware when it's actually one of the most important... don't skimp on the important gear, you can upgrade your drives etc. later

I am not sure about the PSU yet but I was looking at the Thermaltake Toughpower series which is going to cost me $60+ but then again, I might get the Silverstone Strider because it has a 36A 12V line. I think the Silverstone would be better because it is designed for gaming.

Originally posted by tazwegion

FWIW I found an Antec 'Nine Hundred' Gamer's case (with 200mm top exhaust) for $165.00 (minus PSU naturally) after being told they retailed @ around $200 ~ $220

I am also looking at the Antec "Nine Hundred" series but the only thing that is stopping me is the 200MM fan at the very top. If that fan dies, I wouldn't have a clue where to even start looking.

Thanks.

**tazwegion** · 06-02-2007, 07:09 AM

Re: A good choice??

That would be kinda' sweet working at a PC shop, you'd be able to claim/request all the 'dead' motherboards & PSU's and then recap them in your own time making a little extra 'moola' on the side

Good point about that 200mm fan, I wouldn't know how to locate a replacement unit either... most likely source it through (local) Antec distributors though

That Silverstone Strider does look nice, if I hadn't located a preloved Antec TrueBlue 480 (my current project) I would've definitely saved the pennies for one of those beasties!

**starfury1** · 06-03-2007, 11:52 AM

Re: A good choice??

A review of the 850W version at Jonny Guru's

Search at JG on silverstone
here

on the 750W review O/P caps are

Teapo and Su'Scon caps on the secondary side.

Teapo used in 850 W , review

go figure

**stevo1210** · 06-11-2007, 06:39 AM

Re: A good choice??

Originally posted by tazwegion

That would be kinda' sweet working at a PC shop, you'd be able to claim/request all the 'dead' motherboards & PSU's and then recap them in your own time making a little extra 'moola' on the side

I can forget about that idea now.... I quit my job last week after my boss started painting white DVD drives black to sell to his customers for a higher price.

I decided that I didn't want to do things like that so I quit my job....

Apparently my boss also thinks that installing more case fans will make bad caps good again and also stop them spewing out electrolyte??

I heard this insane idea after a customer bought in a PC with a Gigabyte GA-8IDML board with bad GSC caps that kept freezing on windows startup. I have no idea if the fans fixed it or not.

So now I probably have to opt for a lower end gaming PC. The Dell Dimension E520 looks pretty good.... only except it has only 10/100 LAN.
I wonder how good Dells are for gaming??

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