why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

[DarkInferno]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Hi, I have a very similar board to this (the IPIBL-LB) running a e5450 and mine has some issues and I was hoping to get some advice.

The PC in question has what I can best describe as absences, it locks up for a few seconds to a couple of minutes at random, days or minutes apart. When it comes back it is as if nothing has happened. Nothing is in any log etc, as far as it's concerned not one clock cycle got skipped.

Mine (currently) has one bulging capacitor near the Northbridge (the right one of the two just below it in chris' picture)

It marked up as a nipponchemicon kzg 6.3v 820uf.

Would/could this be the cause of the absences? If so are those caps just to provide smoothing? and if so searching my parts bin I have a handful of sanyo 6.3v 1500uf 105oC. Any chance they would be suitable? (I do realise that I'd be doubling its capacitance but its what I have to hand.)

If not what would be a suitable cap? or do I try to get a match?

[DarkInferno]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

The sanyo caps are green and gold which I think I remember means they are low esr, but I'm honestly unsure.

[momaka]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

The PC in question has what I can best describe as absences, it locks up for a few seconds to a couple of minutes at random, days or minutes apart.
...
Mine (currently) has one bulging capacitor near the Northbridge (the right one of the two just below it in chris' picture)

It marked up as a nipponchemicon kzg 6.3v 820uf.

Would/could this be the cause of the absences?

More than likely, YES.

If so are those caps just to provide smoothing?

Not just smoothing. They are an integral part of any voltage regulating circuit. If the caps go really bad, the voltage regulating circuits can go out of control and cause a lot of damage to attached hardware downstream. I have video cards with dead RAM chips and motherboards with dead chipsets due to bad caps. If you see a failed cap, don't wait! Get it fixed right away.

and if so searching my parts bin I have a handful of sanyo 6.3v 1500uf 105oC. Any chance they would be suitable?

Depends on which Sanyo series it is. Gold-on-green Sanyo can be either WF or WG if I remember correctly. WG would work, even though it is twice the capacity.

However, here's a more important question - where did you get those Sanyo caps? If you bought them on eBay or some other place online, there is a high chance they are fake.

If not what would be a suitable cap? or do I try to get a match?

Nichicon: HM, HN, and HZ series
Rubycon: MBZ and MCZ series
Panasonic: FL series (you won't find these for sale but you can pull them from a dead board if you have one)

I strongly suggest you replace every Chemicon KZG cap on your board. Also, if you have Chemicon KZJ, those need to go too. On the other hand, KZE and KMG (small brown caps) are OK, and you can leave them.

[chris89]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Just as an update this IBIBL-LA has been sitting around doing nothing and today I decided to tweak on it a bit.

Popped in my Intel Xeon E5405 2Ghz Quad-Core 1333Mhz FSB 12MB Cache in the pre-modded socket. Tried a Kingston ddr2-667 stick. No Post. Popped in an ELPIDA chip 1024MB PC2-6400.

We have posted so there was nothing wrong with it all along. Just try out some ELPIDA since it appears to work perfectly.

Good Luck

[Dan81]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Just as an update this IBIBL-LA has been sitting around doing nothing and today I decided to tweak on it a bit.

Popped in my Intel Xeon E5405 2Ghz Quad-Core 1333Mhz FSB 12MB Cache in the pre-modded socket. Tried a Kingston ddr2-667 stick. No Post. Popped in an ELPIDA chip 1024MB PC2-6400.

We have posted so there was nothing wrong with it all along. Just try out some ELPIDA since it appears to work perfectly.

Good Luck

Did you replace the bulging capacitors?

[chris89]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Did you replace the bulging capacitors?

Nope never got around to it and the board is working really good now.

Ctrl+f10 goes into advanced bios more options on hp boards. Pretty cool.


Thanks

[momaka]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Just as an update this IBIBL-LA has been sitting around doing nothing and today I decided to tweak on it a bit.

Popped in my Intel Xeon E5405 2Ghz Quad-Core 1333Mhz FSB 12MB Cache in the pre-modded socket. Tried a Kingston ddr2-667 stick. No Post. Popped in an ELPIDA chip 1024MB PC2-6400.

We have posted so there was nothing wrong with it all along.

Nope never got around to it and the board is working really good now.

Yeah, that' the spirit!
I mean my car is working great too right now. Why the should I ever change its oil? Hell, screw maintenance altogether!

Seriously, you deserve a for showing this kind of ignorance on BCN. No offense, okay.

I guarantee you'll be back again soon here when the rest of the caps pop and your board no longer works. Just don't ask why it's not working. We told you already.

[chris89]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

First I'd like Thank each and everyone on this thread for helping and contributing.

Well it's a hit or miss deal bud. I will replace all the caps tomorrow and report back. I have no intention on taking the easy way out. I'm never one to take the easy way out of anything. I want 100% solid longevity.

Anyway the processor doesn't get as hot as a posting system would. I have an IPIBL-LA's younger new successor IPIEL-LA that I'm testing along side. Both running E5405's soon to run X5470's.

I removed the ram and used it testing other systems pop it back in the IPIBL-LA, no post. It is also clear the IPIBL-LA doesn't have any heat on the cpu core, just a bit on the northbridge chip. I was comparing the 12v solder points on the 24-pin and 4-pin header to determine deteriation. I have compared to the IPIEL-LA's and it appears the IPIBL-LA's 12v points are slightly cracked. I will proceed to replace all caps and resolder 12v cracked solder joints and report back tomorrow.

[momaka]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

First I'd like Thank each and everyone on this thread for helping and contributing.

Well it's a hit or miss deal bud.

No problems.
Yeah, I understand these old boards can be cheap sometimes, and hence possibly not worth a recap. But if you already put the effort in cleaning it with alcohol... might as well take the last step. Hence my suggestion above. Again, I hope you don't take offense into that. It's just that I've seen this way too many times, where there would be a bad cap or two and people would say, nah, it's all good, I'll replace 'em when the rest go bad. The thing is, when the rest go bad, this can damage other parts of the motherboard. The you have to find another machine, install an OS onto that, and etc. etc.... Saves more time to not have the board fail IMO.

Anyways, enough of me rambling on that.
Another forum member has the IPIBL-LB and asked for equivalent cap replacements. Since that board appears quite similar to yours, and I already made a post on that thread, you can see a list of replacement caps there:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44281

*edit*
I see your board also has some (possibly) 6.3V 1800uF KZG caps that the other forum member has as Panasonic FL. If yes, then you can use these:
https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...roducts_id=152

[chris89]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

@ momaka

Thanks man yeah I do like fixing these old boards because they cost me nothing or close to it. I then build them up to sell for big bucks. I build gaming PC's with these boards. However non-ecc ram is far too expensive for a seller like myself. I have since switched to dual-xeon supermicro micro atx boards that support ecc ram. So far started on Two Dual-Xeon Quad-Core boards with 24GB ram each. Only one PCIE x16 slot so I'll use Dual-GPU cards for them. By means of GTX 460 2Win.

Enough with the off topic rant . Yes these IPIBL, IPIEL's are good boards. I started with the IPIEL-LA since it supports 16GB ram but later found out it would cost me far too much to build them at that limit with 4GB non-ecc modules at around $100 a pop. That's $400 in ram alone.

In regards to the caps, I have a local shop that I can take the board into and they will find all the caps I need and I walk out of there spending less than $15 usually. They can even repair GPU micro capacitors and resistors or whatever those tiny things are called?

Thanks

[momaka]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

In regards to the caps, I have a local shop that I can take the board into and they will find all the caps I need and I walk out of there spending less than $15 usually.

Be careful with that - or in particular where they source their capacitors and what brand (you should use only Japanese caps such as Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic, United Chemicon, Sanyo, and Fujitsu). eBay, for example, is filled with cheap *and* counterfeit capacitors. There are quite a few online webistes that are like eBay in that regard, so use caution and definitely make sure to ask your shop where they buy their capacitors.

In the US, the best known sources for caps are Digikey, Mouser, and this place (badcaps.net/store). Worldwide, there is also RS Components, Farnell/Element14, and a few others that sell legit Japanese capacitors.

They can even repair GPU micro capacitors and resistors or whatever those tiny things are called?

Yes, capacitors, transistors, resistors... everything is tiny now these days.
This many sound surprising, but they are quite easy to do. You just need a steady hand and preferably good vision.

Thanks man yeah I do like fixing these old boards because they cost me nothing or close to it. I then build them up to sell for big bucks.

Interesting. Must be applicable only to the area where you live. Here, people won't sell their junk for cheap at all. And when it comes to buying, they will expect you to sell for cheap .

I have since switched to dual-xeon supermicro micro atx boards that support ecc ram. So far started on Two Dual-Xeon Quad-Core boards with 24GB ram each. Only one PCIE x16 slot so I'll use Dual-GPU cards for them. By means of GTX 460 2Win.

Supermicro, eh? I think you found the right forum then . That's a rather well-regarded brand of motherboards around here, especially the workstation ones.

[chris89]

Re: why the fuck? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Be careful with that - or in particular where they source their capacitors and what brand (you should use only Japanese caps such as Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic, United Chemicon, Sanyo, and Fujitsu). eBay, for example, is filled with cheap *and* counterfeit capacitors. There are quite a few online webistes that are like eBay in that regard, so use caution and definitely make sure to ask your shop where they buy their capacitors.

In the US, the best known sources for caps are Digikey, Mouser, and this place (badcaps.net/store). Worldwide, there is also RS Components, Farnell/Element14, and a few others that sell legit Japanese capacitors.


Yes, capacitors, transistors, resistors... everything is tiny now these days.
This many sound surprising, but they are quite easy to do. You just need a steady hand and preferably good vision.


Interesting. Must be applicable only to the area where you live. Here, people won't sell their junk for cheap at all. And when it comes to buying, they will expect you to sell for cheap .


Supermicro, eh? I think you found the right forum then . That's a rather well-regarded brand of motherboards around here, especially the workstation ones.

So I checked my local shop and they only have 6.3v 1200uf. I need 6.3v 820uf. Can you tell me if these look good?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-3V-820UF-M...item461b99ed67

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-6-3V82...item2338331169

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QTY-10-820uf...item19f3790987

[momaka]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

The 1200 uF your shop is offering will work too (provided that the caps are legit). Going up a notch in capacitance (or two in this case) is generally never a problem.

As for the links you posted...
I see that all of the sellers are located in the US, which is good - 100x better than buying from cheap sellers in China anyways. However, that still does not guarantee the caps will be legit.
That aside, the caps in the pictures do look legit to me. I am not the biggest counterfeit cap expert around here, though. Also, if you do buy these, make sure to post some pics of the caps when you get them. What you see on the eBay picture may not be what you will receive (and sometimes, fake caps can be so good that you really have to look at the tiniest of details).
As for the Panasonic FJ (and also applies to FL): if I remember correctly, Panasonic FL and FJ caps were never sold directly from Panasonic as "retail" (i.e. not sold to businesses). They were only available to motherboard and computer hardware manufacturers. So the source of those Panasonic FJ caps is a bit questionable.

Lastly, I'm not trying to advertise for badcaps.net, but it does help support the site .

[chris89]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Are you sure 1200uf will work? They said it was generally not a good idea especially on a timed circuit. They said it's typically safe on a power supply but not on a timed circuit board?

Thanks

[momaka]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

*All* of the electrolytic caps on the motherboard are used for filtering (except for a few small ones for the audio I/O coupling). As long as you don't go insanely high on the capacitance (like more than 2x the amount), everything will work.

That said, the folks in your shop are right in that in timed circuits, you shouldn't change the capacitance. Timing circuits, however, *never* use such large caps. Moreover, electrolytic caps have +/-20% tolerance - that makes for a very crappy and imprecise timer. So this is obviously not something you will ever see on a motherboard. Timing / clock generation has always been implemented a crystal and an RTC (Real Time Clock) chip.

[chris89]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

What do u mean by a crystal and rtc chip?

There is a rtc chip on all boards but your saying 1200uf is perfectly fine in replacing 820uf?

Also have you tested this running higher capacitance on a lower capacitance capacitor on a motherboard?

Thanks

[momaka]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

What do u mean by a crystal and rtc chip?

All CPU, NB, and SB clocks (timing) is controlled by the RTC chip. The RTC chip uses a small crystal for the reference clock.

...but your saying 1200uf is perfectly fine in replacing 820uf?

Yes.
Unless you have 20+ caps, and unless they are all on the same circuit (which they are not on motherboards), you won't have a problem.

Again, this is because electrolytic caps have +/- 20% tolerance, as mentioned. An 820 uF cap can be as low as 660 uF and as high as 980 uF. On the other hand, a 1000 uF cap can be as low as 800 uF and as high as 1200 uF. So you see how their capacitance ranges overlap? This is intentional, so that any range of capacitance can be covered with the standard values. Between 820 uF and 1200 uF, you are really only going up 2 notches in capacitance. In most cases, this is actually not a bad thing, since manufacturers may often go down a notch during production to save on costs.

Also have you tested this running higher capacitance on a lower capacitance capacitor on a motherboard?

Yes, many times.
Motherboards:AsRock 939Dual-SATA2, MSI MS7191, ASUS A8V-MX, Intel-made HP DC7700 motherboard, ECS MCP61SM-GM, ECS P4VXASD2+

Video cards (same type of voltage regulating circuits as on motherboards): eVGA GeForce 7600, eVGA GeForce 6200, XFX GeForce 6800 Xtreme
...
and probably a bunch of other hardware I don't feel like listing ATM.
I have a large stash of 6.3V 2200uF and 16V 1500 uF caps, so I tend to experiment a lot. Most of this hardware is for my own use, so that's how I know it works fine long term. Plus, manufacturers often cheap out and put inferior parts (and sometimes that means lower capacitance for caps). So going up a notch in size actually "restores" the "proper" design back.

[chris89]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Sweet dude I'll just pick up the 1200uf locally then replace and report back later today.

Thanks

[chris89]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

I ordered these http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-3V-820UF-M...item461b99ed67

Since the shop was charging $2 a capacitor at 6.3v 1200uf would be $14 for 7, so I figured I'd pay $5 shipped for 10.

I hope it works out well just need to sit around and wait...

Thanks

[DarkInferno]

Re: why the f...? (HP Asus IPIBL-LA)

Just so you know... Rubycon ZLH, the ones you linked to aren't suitable.

ESR is double that of KZG.