PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

[bhvm]

Hello experts,
I am using this as my Primary PC-

AMD x2 3800 manchester.
MSI k8n GM2 FID Motherboard
Dual Disk RAID 0 array
4GB RAM.
Nvidia 9800GT GFX card
19 inch LCD monitor.

I have it powered by the ATRIX 500T SMPS reivewed here- (mine looks a bit different and has a transparent case, Innards are same tough)

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/atrix_500t/

As you see, the reviewer is not very happy with the quality of power and neither am I. It worked well for a year... but now.. PC is suddenly shutting down (like someone snipped the power cord) or restarts.

Symptoms increased after the addition of my Dual disk RAID 0.

I don't have enough money to spend on a new SMPS. Any hopes to 'improve' the said SMPS? It seems that the noise and Ripple on 12v exceeds at high loads... Shall I add caps to seconardy filtering?

Yes, The PC is connected directly to an 1400VA Sinewave UPS with AVR.

[bhvm]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

I remember 'toasty cat 'warned me of that SMPS, but it was booked by then.
Sorry people.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...1&postcount=18

P.S, Already tried this all-
Removed the GFX card and tried onboard
Removed RAID and used single HDD
Removed useless things like DVD RW and Fans, Lights etc

Cleaned and re-installed CPU, RAM and SATA cables/Slots.

[c_hegge]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

Re-cap the PSU. From that link, it looks like a half-decent PSU which is let down by the caps.

[bhvm]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

Shall I increase the uF when recapping?

Also, Removing or adding the load does not change anything.
and +12v reads a little low- 11.85 normally, 11.7 under heavy load (spin up)

[c_hegge]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

What caps do you currently have? I can't tell the capacitance form the pictures in that link.

[bhvm]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

caps are TEC 2200uf on the secondary
Fulltec 200v 1000uF on the primary (2 caps)

I dug up a very old 300W compaq SMPS and PC works fine! Wow I also played Gost sniper on it. +12v drops down to 11.42v... but PC carries on. Atleast 11 year old SMPS.

[370forlife]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

Looks like a low end wintech or youngyear. I think it's a youngyear. It's not that good of a performer over about 300W. A recap with increased capacitance wouldn't help as much as increasing the secondary's capacity.

[bhvm]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

Whats surprizing is that PC is working clean on that old 300w.
I wonder how thats even possible? 9800GT alone is to draw 70W, RAID gulps 36W and lets add in processor and motherboard, Are'nt we above 300 already?

Plus the power supply is a p3, 20 pin type as opposed to true 24 pin.

[370forlife]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

PSU's run best and will run longest when just running at 20-50% load. So a 9800gt computer will run on a 300W, but your pushing the limits of the psu.

The reason most people say to run a 9800gt computer on a 400-500W is to keep it in that 20-50% range.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

PSU's run best and will run longest when just running at 20-50% load.

That may be true with a PSU with BS ratings.

With 'a real' PSU [one with realistic ratings] the optimal range is 70-85% of the ratings with 75%-80% usually being ideal as that's where you get the best efficiency too.

.

[370forlife]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

That may be true with a PSU with BS ratings.

With 'a real' PSU [one with realistic ratings] the optimal range is 70-85% of the ratings with 75%-80% usually being ideal as that's where you get the best efficiency too.

.

Maybe if it's a real high quality psu and is pretty overbuilt, but look here at most psu's and they usually form a upside down parabola peaking at about 50-60%.

[bhvm]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

so dudes, Shall I put that 300W PSU and keep using the PC as is?
Is there a way to measure how much 'loaded' is an SMPS?

What could be the reason? PC working on 300w p3 PSU, but not 500W latest one?
Noise? EMI ? Distortions? or plain bad luck?>

[momaka]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

I dug up a very old 300W compaq SMPS and PC works fine! Wow I also played Gost sniper on it. +12v drops down to 11.42v... but PC carries on. Atleast 11 year old SMPS.

Now did you measure that 12v rail with some software or did you actually use a multimeter? If the latter, I would be a little concerned. 11.42v is just 0.02v away from being out of spec. How many amps is the 12v rail rated for on that Compaq PSU? It should be stated on the label.

caps are TEC 2200uf on the secondary
Fulltec 200v 1000uF on the primary (2 caps)

Not enough info, but it sounds like a case of crappy capacitors, nonetheless. If you're recapping it, generally stick to the same voltage/uF rating of the original caps. The only exception to this is if the power supply doesn't have adequate capacitors in the first place. Generally it's good to have at least 2x 2200uF caps on the 3.3v rail, 2x 2200uF caps on the 5v rail, and if the system uses 12v power for CPU or GPU (in your case, both do), then there should also be at least 2x 2200uF caps on the 12v rail as well. The 5vsb should be good with 2x 1000uF caps. You do not need to replace the 200v primary caps. In some cases, there may be one or more small caps in the range of 10uF-47uF - it's a good idea to replace those too.
For replacement capacitors, use any of the following:
KY, KZE, LXY, or LXZ from United Chemicon
PW, HE, or PM from Nichicon
FC or FJ from Panasonic (you may use Panasonic FM as well, but do so sparingly).
ZL or ZLH from Rubycon

Or if you don't want to do a recap, you might be able to just upgrade the 12v rail on the old Compaq PSU. I think for starters, though, it would be a good idea if you could post some pictures of the inside guts of both PSUs. The 300W Compaq may be a Delta or Lite-ON - both of these companies make excellent power supplies with good capacitors (one way we can check is if you post the UL number - it starts with E and is followed by 6 numbers). From that review, the 500W ATRIX doesn't look bad either other than the caps (it's probably only 300-350W, though).

[PCBONEZ]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

Maybe if it's a real high quality psu and is pretty overbuilt, but look here at most psu's and they usually form a upside down parabola peaking at about 50-60%.

No.
The numbers I gave you are typical of nearly all electronics circuits.

The problem is that chart [which your link doesn't go to BTW] has too many crap PSU's with bogus ratings as inputs to the chart.
If they -say- it's 500w and peaks at 50% [250w] then it's a BS rated PSU that's -really- only about a 330w capacity PSU and it's real peak is ~75% of it's real capacity.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

AMD x2 3800 Manchester - 89 watts
MSI k8n GM2 FID Motherboard - 30-40 watts [Not counting LAN]
Dual Disk RAID 0 array [2x HDD] - 30-40 watts
4GB DDR - 35-45 watts
Nvidia 9800GT - 98-105 watts

282-319 watts without considering anything else.

What do you think,,, 'dude'?

.

[c_hegge]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

FC or FJ from Panasonic (you may use Panasonic FM as well, but do so sparingly).

FM are better for PSUs than FJ. The ESR is slightly higher and they have a much better endurance lifetime. FJ are the ones that belong on motherboards rather than PSUs

[PCBONEZ]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

FM are better for PSUs than FJ. The ESR is slightly higher and they have a much better endurance lifetime. FJ are the ones that belong on motherboards rather than PSUs

Yes

FM are smack in between FC and FJ for specs.
FJ [and FL] are over-kill in a PSU but will work in a pinch.

Except in really old stuff FC are generally not good enough for final output filters on PSU's but they have other uses inside power supplies.
Same-same for LXY, LXZ, PW, HE, and PM. [Fine in PSU outside of final output filters.]

[Behemot]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

I also have only good experiences with Samxon RS up to date.

As for secondary, I personally use highest capacity possible most of the times. For ~300W PSU it's good to use two 2200uF ones, but for 500W I'd definitely use two 3300uF caps.

[370forlife]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

No.
The numbers I gave you are typical of nearly all electronics circuits.

The problem is that chart [which your link doesn't go to BTW] has too many crap PSU's with bogus ratings as inputs to the chart.
If they -say- it's 500w and peaks at 50% [250w] then it's a BS rated PSU that's -really- only about a 330w capacity PSU and it's real peak is ~75% of it's real capacity.

.

You have to look through the reports.

Such as this:

Efficiency peaks at about 50%, then starts to drop off.



Same story



Same story



Same story...

etc... etc...

[Behemot]

Re: PC Restarting/ Shutting off abruptly.

I am afraid they measure only 20, 50 and 100 % load. The graph is counted by computer, based only on these three pieces of data, the real shape could be that highest efficiency is around 80 % and after that it goes down faster.