Hello everyone. I registered here a bit ago but I have a few questions regarding capacitor lifetime and rated temperatures with regard to that. I know this has been explained on these boards before, so if I'm asking banal questions or asking something that's already been answered, please don't hesitate to tell me. ^^; I also hope this is posted to the right subforum.
Recently, in my family, I was given an old computer to have and mess with. It's been around since January of 2003 but I suspect that it has no more than 4 years of usage on it (maybe 3 at the least, not 24/7 but closer to half that). It's a VPR Matrix FT7100-PE that has a D845PEBT2 motherboard by Intel, a Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, 1GB of single channel, PC333 DDR-SDRAM, a 128MB DDR Radeon 9500 Pro, a Sound Blaster Audigy gamer, two Pioneer 16x DVD-RW drives, and a ST3250824A and ST3160023A (with the ST3250824A being the OS drive), along with a 450-watt BFG power supply and Windows XP Professional Edition SP3 installed. The power supply in question recently replaced a garbage (FDD) 300-Watt PSU that started forebode its own death a year earlier (but didn't quite die yet) when it took waiting a couple minutes after turning on the power strip for the system to power up properly. I say I am of the belief that the system has had 4 years of use because the WD800JB in there that recently died had around 360 days of use on it judging by the S.M.A.R.T. data report (and this was closer to being a 10/7 machine than a 24/7 one, as aforementioned, though it's only had about 2 years of use since February of 2006 since that was when the ST3160023A first had its own installation of Windows XP, the only OS that was ever on the computer).
The ST3160023A only has 237 days of use (and ~3800 power cycles), and the WD800JB was bought in early 2005 to replace the defunct 120GB PATA Western Digital drive that came with the machine. So I would conjecture that 4 years of use is about right (given that the computer was used lots from 2003-2005). I recently installed the power supply and ST3250824A (which has almost 20,000 hours/~2900 power cycles from it and is from a now dead computer [the 450-watt BFG PSU is as well, and has a couple years of use on it], but still works well, in spite of having a few recently unearthed bad sectors, 8 reallocated and one offline uncorrectable/pending, as well as 9 reported/uncorrected errors) As obvious, it's a rather archaic machine, but I imagine it still suffices for light tasks, such as word processing and web browsing (Microsoft Word 2003/Open Office and Google Chrome respectively). ^^; And perhaps occasional old games. But all this verbose aside, what I mean to ask is how long the knowledgeable people here think this machine will survive, because whilst, to my relief, most of the caps on the board are 105C Nichicon HD caps (1000uf @ 16V seems to be the Nichicon specs, and there are also 2200uf @ 25v caps on the board, along with some 100uf caps and 470uf ones, from what I can see) or United Chemicon PS caps (105C, and they're solid electrolytes rather than liquid, I think), there are a couple 85C caps on the board, both of which are probably Nichicon VRMs... 105C caps would clearly quadruple the lifetime of 85C caps.
I am relieved that it seems that this motherboard's capacitors are not beleaguered with either the P50/P51 electrolyte plague, nor the defect with the Nichicon HM/HN capacitors of the earlier 2000's. And I don't think they'd have Taiwan Aluminum foil either, as to my knowledge, Nichicon processes most of their aluminum foil in-house and generally do not have plants in Taiwan, and all capacitors from Chemicon, aside from KZGs or caps that aren't made to last long, are solid (I believe; KZGs killed the machine the ST3250824A was in initially, though that machine wasn't to last with a nForce 6100 chipset). The only thing holding it back is the couple 85C caps. I have read on this forum that 85C caps don't last much longer than 5 years... this is 5 years of 10/7 use, right? Because this computer has been power cycled around 6000-7000 times, I would imagine (knowing the WD800JB had almost 6,000 power cycles). Would power cycling (or thermal expansion) be as harmful to capacitors as lots of power on hours and sustained heat, or less? Or more, or just as much? I would imagine that power cycling affects all electronics, but I'm just curious to get a more professional viewpoint.
As for the system's temperatures, the Pentium 4 has a 3500RPM fan and the BFG PSU has a fan directed inward to the system (and, of course, the 9500 Pro has its own fan), where as the original PSU did not. Haplessly, the 3500RPM fan's ball bearings don't sound good, even though it still runs at full speed (nor is the fan speed regulated so it's always at 100%) - it's been that way for a year. No surprise, I guess - it's an AVC fan and they aren't well reputed from what I read. But I suppose I could find a suitable replacement for it (given that it's Socket 478) once the fan goes. So, I would think that the AVC fan aside, and given future excursions, that the system is ventilated adequately enough. But the temperatures themselves, for the CPU (and the core itself), are generally a bit under 40C at idle and around 55C at load (on a fairly warm day, but that's with 3D acceleration on the 9500 Pro - without, it's closer to 50C), and the Auxiliary and mainboard are in the 30's. The 9500 Pro has no temperature sensor but I don't remember reading about it being a hot card, and in its lifespan it's mostly been used for 2D work (though I guess the fan on it could stop working at any moment). The ST3250824A is usually around 37C on such a day and the ST3160023A 39C-40C (but it was once as hot as 58C during a short offline test with regard to S.M.A.R.T.... also, none of the WD drives had a temperature sensor, but the WD800JB was right beneath the ST3160023A, as was the 120GB), though they are not loaded heavily so their temperatures are rather solidified, and the drives are not atop one another, either. I should also make of note that the enclosure for the HDDs seems to be the farthest away from the rest of the components.
Does anyone here think given the 85C capacitors on the board that the 5 year ruling applies to this system or could it last a bit longer? The only other thing wrong with the system seems to be a dead CMOS battery for the second time. I'm wondering whether that's a ramification of a dead battery or dying capacitors (though there are utterly no indications of it otherwise and the BIOS shows the same exact CMOS error every time). PCBONEZ posted a concise and good reference for how long 105C caps by comparison to 85C caps. But was this temperature guide alluding to load temperatures or idle temperatures? Or average temperatures, with relation to the heat the rest of the components generate? ^^; Also, do 85C electrolytic caps dry out faster 105c electrolytic caps (by a significant amount) regardless of use (since I've garnered that electrolytic caps inevitably dry out after 15-20 years, similar to batteries)? There are also no visual indications that any of the capacitors on the motherboard are going, nor do I smell or hear such a thing ever.
I hope this wasn't too long a post to read nor too much of a muss. It's not life or death if this computer doesn't last much longer (nor do I think I would be given allowance to recap it or have it recapped), I just always find this kind of knowledge fascinating. I appreciate any feedback muchly. (:
Recently, in my family, I was given an old computer to have and mess with. It's been around since January of 2003 but I suspect that it has no more than 4 years of usage on it (maybe 3 at the least, not 24/7 but closer to half that). It's a VPR Matrix FT7100-PE that has a D845PEBT2 motherboard by Intel, a Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, 1GB of single channel, PC333 DDR-SDRAM, a 128MB DDR Radeon 9500 Pro, a Sound Blaster Audigy gamer, two Pioneer 16x DVD-RW drives, and a ST3250824A and ST3160023A (with the ST3250824A being the OS drive), along with a 450-watt BFG power supply and Windows XP Professional Edition SP3 installed. The power supply in question recently replaced a garbage (FDD) 300-Watt PSU that started forebode its own death a year earlier (but didn't quite die yet) when it took waiting a couple minutes after turning on the power strip for the system to power up properly. I say I am of the belief that the system has had 4 years of use because the WD800JB in there that recently died had around 360 days of use on it judging by the S.M.A.R.T. data report (and this was closer to being a 10/7 machine than a 24/7 one, as aforementioned, though it's only had about 2 years of use since February of 2006 since that was when the ST3160023A first had its own installation of Windows XP, the only OS that was ever on the computer).
The ST3160023A only has 237 days of use (and ~3800 power cycles), and the WD800JB was bought in early 2005 to replace the defunct 120GB PATA Western Digital drive that came with the machine. So I would conjecture that 4 years of use is about right (given that the computer was used lots from 2003-2005). I recently installed the power supply and ST3250824A (which has almost 20,000 hours/~2900 power cycles from it and is from a now dead computer [the 450-watt BFG PSU is as well, and has a couple years of use on it], but still works well, in spite of having a few recently unearthed bad sectors, 8 reallocated and one offline uncorrectable/pending, as well as 9 reported/uncorrected errors) As obvious, it's a rather archaic machine, but I imagine it still suffices for light tasks, such as word processing and web browsing (Microsoft Word 2003/Open Office and Google Chrome respectively). ^^; And perhaps occasional old games. But all this verbose aside, what I mean to ask is how long the knowledgeable people here think this machine will survive, because whilst, to my relief, most of the caps on the board are 105C Nichicon HD caps (1000uf @ 16V seems to be the Nichicon specs, and there are also 2200uf @ 25v caps on the board, along with some 100uf caps and 470uf ones, from what I can see) or United Chemicon PS caps (105C, and they're solid electrolytes rather than liquid, I think), there are a couple 85C caps on the board, both of which are probably Nichicon VRMs... 105C caps would clearly quadruple the lifetime of 85C caps.
I am relieved that it seems that this motherboard's capacitors are not beleaguered with either the P50/P51 electrolyte plague, nor the defect with the Nichicon HM/HN capacitors of the earlier 2000's. And I don't think they'd have Taiwan Aluminum foil either, as to my knowledge, Nichicon processes most of their aluminum foil in-house and generally do not have plants in Taiwan, and all capacitors from Chemicon, aside from KZGs or caps that aren't made to last long, are solid (I believe; KZGs killed the machine the ST3250824A was in initially, though that machine wasn't to last with a nForce 6100 chipset). The only thing holding it back is the couple 85C caps. I have read on this forum that 85C caps don't last much longer than 5 years... this is 5 years of 10/7 use, right? Because this computer has been power cycled around 6000-7000 times, I would imagine (knowing the WD800JB had almost 6,000 power cycles). Would power cycling (or thermal expansion) be as harmful to capacitors as lots of power on hours and sustained heat, or less? Or more, or just as much? I would imagine that power cycling affects all electronics, but I'm just curious to get a more professional viewpoint.
As for the system's temperatures, the Pentium 4 has a 3500RPM fan and the BFG PSU has a fan directed inward to the system (and, of course, the 9500 Pro has its own fan), where as the original PSU did not. Haplessly, the 3500RPM fan's ball bearings don't sound good, even though it still runs at full speed (nor is the fan speed regulated so it's always at 100%) - it's been that way for a year. No surprise, I guess - it's an AVC fan and they aren't well reputed from what I read. But I suppose I could find a suitable replacement for it (given that it's Socket 478) once the fan goes. So, I would think that the AVC fan aside, and given future excursions, that the system is ventilated adequately enough. But the temperatures themselves, for the CPU (and the core itself), are generally a bit under 40C at idle and around 55C at load (on a fairly warm day, but that's with 3D acceleration on the 9500 Pro - without, it's closer to 50C), and the Auxiliary and mainboard are in the 30's. The 9500 Pro has no temperature sensor but I don't remember reading about it being a hot card, and in its lifespan it's mostly been used for 2D work (though I guess the fan on it could stop working at any moment). The ST3250824A is usually around 37C on such a day and the ST3160023A 39C-40C (but it was once as hot as 58C during a short offline test with regard to S.M.A.R.T.... also, none of the WD drives had a temperature sensor, but the WD800JB was right beneath the ST3160023A, as was the 120GB), though they are not loaded heavily so their temperatures are rather solidified, and the drives are not atop one another, either. I should also make of note that the enclosure for the HDDs seems to be the farthest away from the rest of the components.
Does anyone here think given the 85C capacitors on the board that the 5 year ruling applies to this system or could it last a bit longer? The only other thing wrong with the system seems to be a dead CMOS battery for the second time. I'm wondering whether that's a ramification of a dead battery or dying capacitors (though there are utterly no indications of it otherwise and the BIOS shows the same exact CMOS error every time). PCBONEZ posted a concise and good reference for how long 105C caps by comparison to 85C caps. But was this temperature guide alluding to load temperatures or idle temperatures? Or average temperatures, with relation to the heat the rest of the components generate? ^^; Also, do 85C electrolytic caps dry out faster 105c electrolytic caps (by a significant amount) regardless of use (since I've garnered that electrolytic caps inevitably dry out after 15-20 years, similar to batteries)? There are also no visual indications that any of the capacitors on the motherboard are going, nor do I smell or hear such a thing ever.
I hope this wasn't too long a post to read nor too much of a muss. It's not life or death if this computer doesn't last much longer (nor do I think I would be given allowance to recap it or have it recapped), I just always find this kind of knowledge fascinating. I appreciate any feedback muchly. (:
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