Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

[Weelcup]

Hi
I have HP 13-v with the motherboard LA-D402P. No schematics. It has 2 usbc charging ports. To explain the issue, lets assume charging port A and charginging port B. Now when i connect the charger to A port it will work but if i flip over the charging tip and connect it to A it will not charge. The same applies to charging port B. However, B charges exactly opposit to A. Please check the following link for better understanding:

https://youtu.be/4wzt6g6gmak


One more note, when the laptop is shutdown overnight it will still discharge the battery.


I have no clue why? So any advise will be appreciated.

Thanks

[mcplslg123]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

Laptop battery discharging in off condition-check whether 3/5V is generated on battery without poweron. That may be one of the reasons of battery discharge overnight.

[sikocan]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

Stupid question, but have you tried different charger?
I've had similar issue, it was the case of a repair done by someone else but not sure what, which caused this issue.

[mon2]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

By specification, USB Type C is symmetrical in operation and it should not matter on the orientation of the plug.

Guessing here that something on the motherboard is failing to detect the presence of the voltage / flipping of the external adapter.

There must be a USB manager IC onboard this motherboard. Perhaps you can take and post clear pictures of the motherboard that should be close to the USB Type C connectors?

There are many players now in the USB Type C world. Some, including VIA (early on) had serious issues - we almost burnt our hands in the lab while attempting to develop a product with the first power delivery (PD) spec. Canned the whole idea due to liability and now review again.


Even Cypress had faults that we alerted them to after paying $500 USD for an evaluation kit they claimed could support 60W-100W of power delivery. Sure thing - the PCB traces to carry these currents were thinner than my hair strand. Their reply - ' please do not attempt this much power through the kit ' - no kidding. We informed your engineers of this fault!!

The power delivery spec has matured quite a bit since then.

Hoping your USB Type C manager is a common one from perhaps TI, Cypress, ONSEMI / Fairchild, etc.

[kostik78]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

I bet this laptop uses TPS65982 for each port and they work together so it can explain this behavior. Also UBC-C is symmetrical but it is not mechanical symmetry, it is logical. IC does it. So I would say that one IC is “half-broken” (IC that controls port A from the scenario)

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

OMG!
So sorry for tge late reply. I usually recieve an email as notification whenever someone reply on my posts! But i did not recieve anything this time. So i just checked and noticed all your replies. Again my apologies for the late reply ������

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

Laptop battery discharging in off condition-check whether 3/5V is generated on battery without poweron. That may be one of the reasons of battery discharge overnight.

Thanks for the reply,
Yes i do have 5v and 3v only battery is connected.

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

Stupid question, but have you tried different charger?
I've had similar issue, it was the case of a repair done by someone else but not sure what, which caused this issue.

It is not a stupid question as i went through that issue before and spent plenty of time on an OMEN 17W laptop trying to fine why the 3v is missing and the problem was the charger at the end. So definitely not a stupid question but i have already checked that and the same problem presist.

Thanks

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

By specification, USB Type C is symmetrical in operation and it should not matter on the orientation of the plug.

Guessing here that something on the motherboard is failing to detect the presence of the voltage / flipping of the external adapter.

There must be a USB manager IC onboard this motherboard. Perhaps you can take and post clear pictures of the motherboard that should be close to the USB Type C connectors?

There are many players now in the USB Type C world. Some, including VIA (early on) had serious issues - we almost burnt our hands in the lab while attempting to develop a product with the first power delivery (PD) spec. Canned the whole idea due to liability and now review again.


Even Cypress had faults that we alerted them to after paying $500 USD for an evaluation kit they claimed could support 60W-100W of power delivery. Sure thing - the PCB traces to carry these currents were thinner than my hair strand. Their reply - ' please do not attempt this much power through the kit ' - no kidding. We informed your engineers of this fault!!

The power delivery spec has matured quite a bit since then.

Hoping your USB Type C manager is a common one from perhaps TI, Cypress, ONSEMI / Fairchild, etc.

Thanks a lot for these valuable safety warning. I was not aware about that but will take extra safety measure when working on it.

I found Ti 2546 next to the usbc IC, is that what you refered to?

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

I bet this laptop uses TPS65982 for each port and they work together so it can explain this behavior. Also UBC-C is symmetrical but it is not mechanical symmetry, it is logical. IC does it. So I would say that one IC is “half-broken” (IC that controls port A from the scenario)

Thanks for the reply,
Yes for sure it is the TPS65982. Non of them suffering any heating but i will replace them one by one. Do you mean the controller is inside those ICs? Or another ic is controlling the line between the port and the TPS65* IC? Remember both ports behave the same, why should we suspect port A not B?

Thanks again

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

These are some photos for the board

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

What I wanted to added is that when the charger is pluged the right way everything works normally but when i plugged it the other way (when the battery not charging) the 15V main power line gone missing. By this I mean the port is not providing 15v to the TPS65982 IC. However the line is not shorted.

https://youtu.be/l7PlY4eVBG0

[kostik78]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

Thanks for the reply,
Yes for sure it is the TPS65982. Non of them suffering any heating but i will replace them one by one. Do you mean the controller is inside those ICs? Or another ic is controlling the line between the port and the TPS65* IC? Remember both ports behave the same, why should we suspect port A not B?

Thanks again

TPS65982 responsible for detecting USB-C plug orientation and switch internally according to the plug. Also I suspect that power line on this laptop similar to another spectre and looking at its schematic, one TS65*(let's say A) is kinda controlling another TS (B) even when USB-C plug is not connected to A.

P.S. I have one spectre right now where both ICs don't talk to power supply to get 19v but there is no short. I ordered them from China and will replace. Something tells me that the board will power on after that. The board works fine from the battery.

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

TPS65982 responsible for detecting USB-C plug orientation and switch internally according to the plug. Also I suspect that power line on this laptop similar to another spectre and looking at its schematic, one TS65*(let's say A) is kinda controlling another TS (B) even when USB-C plug is not connected to A.

P.S. I have one spectre right now where both ICs don't talk to power supply to get 19v but there is no short. I ordered them from China and will replace. Something tells me that the board will power on after that. The board works fine from the battery.

Aha! I see,
Well, this board was initially not turning on just like yours and was only getting the charger to provide 5v instead of 15v and only about 0.09 Amps. After the inspection a cap was shorted not on the the charging ports but within the Port C circuit. The thing is that the short was not on a main line so was sole but only by checking all surrounding caps around the port C TPS65* one found to be shorted. I expect you checked those several caps there. The short was not 0 ohm but 3ohms to ground. After replacing that cap the board turned on but with this flipping issue. I replaced the TPS65* of port C but same result.

I think i have to check some donor boards here and see if i can find similar TPS65* ones to replace the other 2 TPS65*s today. And will see 😊

Thanks again

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

So i replaced both of the ICs and the same issue presist.

[kostik78]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

So i replaced both of the ICs and the same issue presist.

Well. I am not so expirenced but I believe that TS65* should negotiate 20v from the charger. There are no other components involved into the process. It may be it has a protection circuit and detects something. TI has datasheet on IC and demo board with the schematic available online. I would check the documents to see if there is description of how the negation works (it is protocol with messages exchange) and if IC has the protection that prevents the negation.

[kostik78]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

So i replaced both of the ICs and the same issue presist.

Stupid question - check both ports under microscope. May be they have pins damage.

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

Well. I am not so expirenced but I believe that TS65* should negotiate 20v from the charger. There are no other components involved into the process. It may be it has a protection circuit and detects something. TI has datasheet on IC and demo board with the schematic available online. I would check the documents to see if there is description of how the negation works (it is protocol with messages exchange) and if IC has the protection that prevents the negation.

Thanks. I thinks this would be a good point.
And yes i already checked all the 3 posrts under microscope and all seems fine.


I was thinking what could be in common with both ports in which they communicate in reverse. Now if the datasheet explain what each ic do then i have to check how they works in pairs. Hope to get figure it out

[ktmmotocross]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

replace both TPS by ports

for refer check Nothridgefix channel on youtube

[Weelcup]

Re: Hp spectre 13. Charging issue. Very confusing!

replace both TPS by ports

for refer check Nothridgefix channel on youtube

Thanks for the reply.
Already replaced. No luck

I checked the youtube channel you refered, thanks. However, it was basic troubleshootings. I used to deal with usbc at that level but this flipping issue, i did not come across. Apparently, some other chip is interfering. I suspect the thunderbolt big ic but just not sure enough and i do not have a replacement at the moment. Nevertheless, i will update the post as soon as i got it replaced.


Thanks again