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Old 05-31-2018, 09:39 AM   #41
stormy1777
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Quote:
Originally Posted by budm View Post
The reason I have you checked the resistance, NOT ESR, is to find out if has leakage resistance that is bad enough to cause the problem or not.
Sorry, I'm somewhat new to this, so need to read more carefully! OK, drained , voltage is ZERO, then tested at 10.003M ohm. disconnected from circuit, drained, tested again at 10 M ohm, this looks OK i would think..

Someone bet on the diodes, i'll go there next unless there are other ideas..

it may take a bit longer to find exactly that diode

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Old 05-31-2018, 09:55 AM   #42
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

That is fine, so for the cap not to charge up basically instantly without the load when applied the power then it has to be those resistors, diodes since it just simple half wave rectifier circuit.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:12 AM   #43
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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... the fuse is OK, b/c it has 230vac across it.
No, if there is a large voltage drop across the fuse, it has high resistance.

Sometimes corrosion or carbon-tracking can wrongly give low-ohms reading to a part (resistor, fuse etc.) and then the part open-circuits when powered up.

I learned big capacitor C1 16uF/400V is a MAP AC motor starting cap, polypropylene film dielectric but oil filled. These have an internal safety pressure-switch that open-circuits the cap if pressure gets too high. Not relevant here but good to know, this type of (film) caps can go open.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:48 AM   #44
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Originally Posted by stormy1777 View Post
... the fuse is OK, b/c it has 230vac across it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redwire View Post
No, if there is a large voltage drop across the fuse, it has high resistance.

Sometimes corrosion or carbon-tracking can wrongly give low-ohms reading to a part (resistor, fuse etc.) and then the part open-circuits when powered up.

I learned big capacitor C1 16uF/400V is a MAP AC motor starting cap, polypropylene film dielectric but oil filled. These have an internal safety pressure-switch that open-circuits the cap if pressure gets too high. Not relevant here but good to know, this type of (film) caps can go open.

Good catch about the Vdrops of 230V on the fuse, I did not see that before, may be bad fuse holder contacts.

Last edited by budm; 05-31-2018 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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The resistance of the fuse, two power resistors and the two 1N5408 rectifiers is all that is in series with mains. One of these parts is pooched.
I don't know how u knew it was the 1N5408, I guess that comes with experience took both off circuit, and indeed that "08" was hidden below the "circle", tested using DMM as follows:

D1: 72 k-Ohm & 0.47 V drop (in diode mode)
D2: 92 k-Ohm & 0.49 V drop (in diode mode)

so far dug up all boards and only found 1N5400, so not good, either way ordered a kit and will continue searching in hopes of replacing D1 and seeing if there is any change.

if there are other ideas I can easily put them to the test with reality

Thanks!!
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:30 PM   #46
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

found this spec sheet, https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds28007.pdf, but no clue if it provides data to say if they are good based on measurements above..
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:06 PM   #47
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

How about this:

what's the voltage across the power resistors 32->33 and 26->27

They better be fairly low unless the resistor is burning up hot.

Might well also take the voltage across 2->3 for grins. Voltage from 22->4 might be helpful but as it's a transition from ac -> dc, numbers might look screwey.

If you have some 1n4005-1N4007's or 1N5405-1n5406 you can temporarily substitute them. Don't leave them in else they may fry.

Last edited by eccerr0r; 05-31-2018 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Found many HER-208-HG, but I think that is 2A and the 1N5408 is 3A.. probably not safe.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:00 PM   #49
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Right now you are testing to find out if the main filter cap will be charged up to full Voltage or not WITHOUT THE LOAD (Transformer is not in place) so those HER-208 will be fine.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:05 PM   #50
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

It won't get to 2 amps sustained, don't worry about it. Peak, maybe; but not sustained.

Other things would fail first if 2 amps flowed through continuously...
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:06 PM   #51
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

OH, what a pleasant reply, as I was typing the following

Diodes are out, looking for replacements, will take these measurements once it is put together..

found 4 different diodes, but not sure anyone will fit the needs, size wise they look similar size:

1) FR302 , spec: http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/data...ytes/FR301.pdf, no go, 100V

2) S3-83

3) 3PDA-60-8L

4) ER506-peo 9329
spec i think: http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/data...njit/ER504.pdf, so no go, b/c it is 600V.

OK, let me go with the HER-208, they are somewhat smaller, but voltage wise i think it's closet of these, lets see.

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Old 05-31-2018, 06:30 PM   #52
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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Originally Posted by eccerr0r View Post
How about this:

what's the voltage across the power resistors 32->33 and 26->27

Might well also take the voltage across 2->3 for grins. Voltage from 22->4 might be helpful but as it's a transition from ac -> dc, numbers might look screwey.
Here is a very fun update, making huge progress, thanks to all 'ya all

1) Replaced both D1 & D2 with HER-208, nothing blew up, and C1 charged like a turtle.. no change.

2) The measurements of 22->4 were given earlier, it is roughly 42-50VAC, in VDC it jumps around 35VDC.

3) 2->3 is 25 VAC

4) 32->33 is 10VAC

5) now the kicker i think... 22->27 comes at 110 VAC!!!

so, maybe that ceramic resistor is bad?? it says 10W @ 360 Ohm J.

Looking around all my old junk, nothing looks remotely like that.. need to figure how to connect some old CHAIR or something that has the same electrical properties, but not sure what can be substituted, so might need to order and wait...

Thanks everyone! looks like that is the issue of slow charging at least

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Old 05-31-2018, 06:51 PM   #53
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

ok, just for the record, pulled the bad one, R2 (the one closer to center of board), measuring resistance out of circuit gets an *OL* on DMM.. so, that is the smoking gun - some short there! Will try to find a new one; that may take time Thanks, I'll keep posted of course. Here is a closeup photo of the two friends.

if you have any tips on what can change, like with capacitors i know i can usually go higher voltage as we did with the 100v@22uF, here I bet it can go higher Watts , but keep the 360Ohm and keep it ceramic so it can deal with the load i guess.

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Old 05-31-2018, 07:16 PM   #54
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

I guess you missed post #21
Digikey carries the 360Ω 10 watt, I would just leave a bit of room (1/8 inch) between the board and the resistor for a bit better heat circulation

Last edited by R_J; 05-31-2018 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:25 PM   #55
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

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I guess you missed post #21
NO WAY!! you back dated that post - no? you didn't? CRY... CRY....

OK: I do vaguely remember i think.. such is life, u are taught to pay attention.. to the little things. Thanks R_J!!! I'll report back

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Old 05-31-2018, 07:33 PM   #56
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Well, I guess measuring the voltage is easier than desoldering and measuring resistance anyway We found the bad resistor without a soldering iron!

You can probably substitute something close by for a test but not knowing the characteristics of the coil I don't know. The duty cycle seems like the average power dissipation would not be high at all.

But it failed! And resistors usually don't fail!

Not sure if it's simply construction defect but odd that I doubt design problem... then again the resistors show no heat damage which usually cause their demise.

As a test you probably can go up to 470Ω but safest to keep wattage. Higher wattage resistors unfortunately significantly goes up in costs so likely you don't want to go past 10W.

BTW - what parts *do* you have that you could use?
If you have like two 180Ω 5W you could hook them up in series and you're done, or perhaps two 680Ω 5W resistors and hook in parallel and be fairly close.

Last edited by eccerr0r; 05-31-2018 at 07:42 PM..
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:43 PM   #57
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Who would've thought that such a brick can get spoiled esp when posting on a 'badcap' forum it looks like a ROCK for heaven's sake hm... if u only knew all the things i'm fantasizing as replacement parts for this resistor..... This could be a good start for a movie ok, later..
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:49 PM   #58
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Sometimes the wire inside the resistor just breaks due to heat stress, If you look at the other side it may show some cracks in the cement, but not always. Seen these go open alot many years ago in tube tv's
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:02 PM   #59
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Right, R_J, no visible sign of heat/burn/wear..definitely a short in wire though.. I'm eager to fully dissect it once a replacement arrives.. it seems to be some sort of "cement" poured (from bottom) into a ceramic cast, so it's hollow and inside is poured.. anyways... maybe there's a forum for how-to-fix-cement-resistors.net

looking around on all power supply boards, i don't have this kind of stuff, only 0.5 through 2W resistors..

I'll try to get either of these two, although they say 'wirewound' by photo they look similar, any thoughts?

Xicon, 280-CR10-360-RC
Yageo, SQP10AJB-360R

will take some time, but I'll definitely report back.. so hang on for a happy ending hopefully, or more discoveries

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Old 06-01-2018, 12:27 PM   #60
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Default Re: Repair Fence Energizer SS-1000E Fi-Shock

Not a "short" in wire, the resistance wire goes "open" and YEs those resistors are wirewound type.
Digikey usually has cheap shipping and for $5.00 you can get 10. I can get next day shipping to Canada ($8.00 cdn) so it should be even faster for you

Last edited by R_J; 06-01-2018 at 12:31 PM..
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