Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

One of my Nephews in MA works for a large hospital called Baystate Hospital. they own several other hospitals. He does security for their servers. They are constantly sending him to learn update programs on security.
My brother who practice in Corning use to practice at Corning Hospital, a hospital in Elmira and a hospital in Binghamton. You might see if one of those hospitals have more openings. I know a few Drs and none of them want to be bothered with computers.
My Nephew in MA was train as a phlebotomist in the Air Force and he did this for a living after he got out. He found that the current position paid way more so he just pick it up on his own and then applied and was accepted.

That's real cool. The old Corning hospital is gone. I don't remember what they're doing with the place. I want to say they might be tearing it down and turning it into a parking lot or something. The new one is huge, like the ones you see in the big cities. It's really nice looking and has really fancy equipment, however, the wait time to be seen is still ridiculous.

I joked with my wife about going there when she goes into labor. I told her she'd be in labor for a good two days and she'd still have the baby in the waiting room!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

Don't believe the spying BS that some people thing is going on.
Microsoft are well aware of the various laws around the world and would not do anything to hamper those sales.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-micr...th-windows-10/

There is no free upgrade from Vista to 10 he will need to pay for it.

Right, there is no free upgrade from Vista to 10. He is paying for it. 7, 8 and 8.1 are eligible for the free upgrade.

I'm not sure if they're spying on people or not. To me, it doesn't really matter. I don't really do much that's wrong now-a-days on a PC so I don't really have anything to hide, for the most part.

But the questions about it being HIPPA compliant or whatever seems to be a real issue that Microsoft has somewhat addressed. With the enterprise edition only, you can sign something called a BBA (or BAA). I don't know what it is or what it does, but from what I've read, only Enterprise and maybe Business users have this option. The Microsoft article mentioned something about if you have patient health information on your PC, you'd want to sign one. The article I read mentioned something about Enterprise having more options to turn off that telemetry or whatever it's called, versus the other flavours.

Ultimately though, if security is a concern, would Windows be the best operating system of choice? I'd think there'd be some more secure OSes out there.

[keeney123]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

My brother lives right at the top of the hill from the old Corning Hospital. He had a four wheel drive so he could get to the hospital if an emergency happen. At one time during his career he was Head of Administration, Head of Surgery and Head of Residency. He did all of those things at the same time plus he had his regular customers. He also knows several languishes, graduated George Washington Medical School, but when it comes to computers he would rather let someone else take care of it, so perhaps you will find a career fixing doctors computers.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

I should have been a bit more clear about the upgrade process. I have a copy of 7 that I'm installing for him and then going to 10. I thought it was weird. If you want 10, why not just purchase 10? Why purchase 7 and then go to 10? But then I started thinking about it. Maybe he's doing it this way so in case he doesn't like 10, I can always take him back to 7 without him needing to buy yet another OS.

[keeney123]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

I should have been a bit more clear about the upgrade process. I have a copy of 7 that I'm installing for him and then going to 10. I thought it was weird. If you want 10, why not just purchase 10? Why purchase 7 and then go to 10? But then I started thinking about it. Maybe he's doing it this way so in case he doesn't like 10, I can always take him back to 7 without him needing to buy yet another OS.

You will have problems going back to 7 from ten. I would tell him the best system is 7. I believe they made 3 versions of 10 and neither one of them have the capability of 7. What free version that they give one is most likely to most basic one. If he wants you to go ahead anyhow and is willing to pay for your time go ahead and do it.

[stj]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

I'm not sure if they're spying on people or not. To me, it doesn't really matter. I don't really do much that's wrong now-a-days on a PC so I don't really have anything to hide, for the most part.

if you use ebay / amazon etc then your entering credit details - that's enough to need privacy.

trust m$?
they use processing centers in country's like india and share all the shit with loads of afiliated company's and "buy-in" organisations like the MPAA.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

You will have problems going back to 7 from ten. I would tell him the best system is 7. I believe they made 3 versions of 10 and neither one of them have the capability of 7. What free version that they give one is most likely to most basic one. If he wants you to go ahead anyhow and is willing to pay for your time go ahead and do it.

Okay, I'll contact him once I'm done with this Syracuse / Rochester customer's PC. Why would I have problems going back to 7 if I have the installation disc and a product key? Format, install 7, and away we go, right?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

if you use ebay / amazon etc then your entering credit details - that's enough to need privacy.

trust m$?
they use processing centers in country's like india and share all the shit with loads of afiliated company's and "buy-in" organisations like the MPAA.

My wife has 10 on her laptop. She went for the free upgrade. I use it sometimes to talk here, on BadCaps, because it's in the living room where she usually is. What exactly do they collect? I was under the impression that you could completely turn off certain things, like Microsoft collecting browsing history. I read an article on how they collect payment data, like credit card numbers, etc. It's hard to tell what's true and what's just hyped up propaganda.

I would love for my wife to make the switch to Linux. She can use it. She'll login to one of my Linux boxes and do stuff once in awhile. Every time I suggest it though, she just says no, she doesn't want it on her laptop. I told her there's a lot of flavours out there and I'm sure we could find one she really likes.

I still need to use 10, to learn it I mean. Just like with 8. I guess that's why I have them installed in Virtual Machines. I got the trial versions for 8. I got a retail version for 7 that my wife bought. Vista, I'm pretty much done with. I'm thinking of dedicating one complete machine and turning it into a Microsoft Technician's Machine. I was thinking of throwing a legal copy of Server 2012 on or something like that, to play with image deployment and all that jazz.

[keeney123]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

Okay, I'll contact him once I'm done with this Syracuse / Rochester customer's PC. Why would I have problems going back to 7 if I have the installation disc and a product key? Format, install 7, and away we go, right?

First is the obvious; once the ten million updates on 7 get wiped when 10 is put on they will have to be installed again. I also suspect that they damage the windows update program when you go to ten and then back to 7. If you have a cloning program I would clone the Windows 7 disk after you get it working to it's best. I would then verify that when I put the clone disk in the machine it is capable of booting up the Windows 7 OS that is on it. In this way all the updates and the drivers etc will be the latest and greatest version. After I verify that the clone disk works I would then go ahead install the original disk and upgrade to Windows 10. If after the Doctor gets his computer back and is unhappy with Windows 10 then you can just take the clone disk and use it to now clone the windows 10 disk. You may or may not have to insert the clone disk in the machine to clone the Windows 10 disk. Sometime one can take a USB disk and clone it to the machine disk and sometimes not. It does how ever work the other way around.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

I won't be using his actual disc. I should have said that. I'll be using the product key but I have created a fully updated master image. I'll use that to create what I think is called a reference image (his drivers slipstreamed into the master image using dism). I install 7 off a thumb drive. If the customers want a recovery disk, I give them a copy of the reference image, on thumb drive. So, even if 10 does stuff to the 7 installation, I won't actually be using 10 to downgrade. I'll use my reference image.

I have an answer file for UEFI BIOSes and then an answer file for legacy BIOSes. Both of them will wipe the disk completely and recreate the partitions. They also create a special recovery partition and add an option to the boot menu (the one that shows when you press F8) that says Recovery or something along those lines.

My master image contains certificates for the various systems (HP, Dell, Compaq, etc) and in the answer file, I have all the generic pre-activation product keys listed. If I have an HP that came with 7, I go and simply pick the 7 Home (or Pro) product key for the HP. Windows setup is smart enough to pick the correct certificate and pre-activation goes as planned (I don't need to activate, because after install, it's automatically activated, with no phone calls or internet, etc). With his PC, because it came with Vista, I won't be using any certificates. I should be able to leave them in the directory. I'll just add his retail key to the answer file. That should work, I'd think.

It's a nice system because when I install 7, on any customer's PC, I don't have to do hundreds of updates. Everything, including the .NET Frameworks, are just installed by default. Instead of taking a couple days to redo someone's system, it takes maybe 30 minutes or so. I tried doing this with 8 but it seems to be a bit more troublesome.

Thanks for the input Keeney123.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

If you fix PCs for a living, I highly suggest the master / reference image stuff. It's absolutely amazing. You can push them out so quick like. The key is to create the master image in a virtual machine. That way, if more updates come out, just restore the save state, update, sysprep, capture the new image. Also, the virtual machines don't have any special hardware (like those pesky HP Quick Keys or whatever). Although sysprep /generalize is supposed to remove the drivers, it sometimes doesn't remove certain things, like various services. So, sometimes, stuff like the HP Quick Keys stay installed, or card reader drivers, that might work a bunch of systems, but not all of them. Virtual machines just have the basic hardware, so it's a lot nicer.

If you decide you want to give this a shot, let me know, I can help you create your images. There's a little bit of a learning curve. Someone here on BadCaps helped me create my first image. I can't believe I wasn't using them before.

[stj]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

once you downgrade to 10, you have about 3 weeks (allegedly), after that m$ permanently flags the product key as a 10 key on their servers.
at that point, it wont be valid for 7 / 8.1 anymore.

[diif]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

There is a month to use the tools within Windows 10 to go back to the previous version.
I did one this week. There was no option to restore so must have been longer.
I reinstalled 7 and activated without issues.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

once you downgrade to 10, you have about 3 weeks (allegedly), after that m$ permanently flags the product key as a 10 key on their servers.
at that point, it wont be valid for 7 / 8.1 anymore.

Wait, what? The product key for the 10 free upgrades aren't the product keys for the 7 / 8.1 installations, I've noticed. After I do a free upgrade on a customers PC, I run Magic Jellybean, all the 10 free upgrades Home versions have the exact same product key.

Once the machine is registered on the Microsoft servers as the free upgrade, I can use those generic 10 product keys to do a clean full reinstall. I don't use the 7 / 8 product keys. Are you saying even if I use those generic keys, after 3 weeks or so, those original 7 / 8 keys will not be usable for 7 or 8?

Also, retail keys allow you to install on 3 different machines, right?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

There is a month to use the tools within Windows 10 to go back to the previous version.
I did one this week. There was no option to restore so must have been longer.
I reinstalled 7 and activated without issues.

So, after month, the tool within 10 to go back to the previous version disappears...but using a 7 disc / thumbdrive, formatting, reinstalling 7, will the product key still work? Or are those 7 keys permanently bound to just 10 after that month?

If so, this is information Microsoft should have sent me! I'm registered as a Microsoft Partner and get white letters from them once in awhile (like how activation process works in the various versions of Windows, how to do pre-activation, how to request my own certificate for my own custom built systems, etc). This is information that they should have shared with me!

[diif]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

It was Windows 7 Pro, I can't speak for other versions.

[stj]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

firstly, i dont know about "product keys", i'm refering to the license in the bios.

when windows registers it goes online to validate the key against the server,
if it's blacklisted,unknown or for a different windows version it will be rejected.

if you buy a laptop with 7 on it, it may hold keys for 7 and maybe 8 or vista - depends on exact age.
if you upgrade to 10, m$ flags the serial on the server as being for 10 instead of whatever it was before.

[keeney123]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

I have never gotten the system images to work on the first machine I tried it on in 2011 so I just gave up on that routine and went back to cloning the drives. Of course I was only doing it for myself. Also, as you have noticed there seems to be no consistency from one moment to next with Microsoft as to what works or what is upgraded and avenues to downgrade once the upgrade has been done. With the cloning you know where you are going to start from. Perhaps what Stj said is the reason my neighbors Windows Updates will not work. He upgraded to Windows 10 for more than a month and when I recovered his out of the box OS, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit I was unable to update the Windows 7 Program Security. Perhaps it thinks it is a Window 10 and it does not compute as a Windows 7. Of course it would be nice if they would sensed this and ask the operator if they want to revert back to the Windows 7 license. The problem is they are not interested in what their customers want they want to push the Windows 10. Use to be they were wanting to please their customers and if there was a strong demand for a program they took note of this. That is what happen after XP they made Vista realized their mistake and came out with 7. Since seven they abandoned the desktop user and tried to capture the Apple Market. If I wanted an Apple computer and their touch screen Apps that is want I would buy. Apple has been in that market with this system longer than windows and hence know mores about it. I think this problem occur when Apple was targeting the school age population. They were giving them to junior high schools and such and these kids became use to them.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

firstly, i dont know about "product keys", i'm refering to the license in the bios.

when windows registers it goes online to validate the key against the server,
if it's blacklisted,unknown or for a different windows version it will be rejected.

if you buy a laptop with 7 on it, it may hold keys for 7 and maybe 8 or vista - depends on exact age.
if you upgrade to 10, m$ flags the serial on the server as being for 10 instead of whatever it was before.

This is how I know activation for 7 works.

Inside the BIOS, there's SLIC data. When you install, if you use a pre-activation key and there's a certificate on the installation medium, Windows setup will check to see if the cert on the installation medium matches the SLIC data in the BIOS. For Vista, this SLIC data is 2.0. For 7, this SLIC data is v2.1. If the certificate matches the SLIC data in the BIOS, the machine activates without connecting to any servers. I believe if you use a pre-activation product key but try to activate online, you will get a message this version of Windows cannot be activated this way.

For early versions of 8, there was a product key on the machine and one in the BIOS, I believe. Then manufacturers removed the product key sticker and just kept the key in the BIOS. I believe it's stored in the ACPI table. To my knowledge, there are no pre-activation keys. Every key for 8 / 8.1 in the BIOS is unique. I don't think there are any certificates either. However, I believe there is still SLIC data. I believe this SLIC data is called SLIC v2.2. Back in the past, with 7, Vista, XP, you could only activate so many times on-line before having to call. With pre-activation, because you're not actually connecting to any Microsoft servers, there's no limit to how many times you can pre-activate. It by passes the servers all together.

With 8.1, I've now reinstalled three times here I think, and I have not had to call Microsoft. So perhaps with the product key being stored in the BIOS, it pre-activates.

Can anyone verify this for me?

For Vista and 7, I don't use the product key on the sticker. I only use the pre-activation keys that can be found on the internet. They're the same keys that the manufacturers use. It would take too much time for manufacturers to have to activate every machine manually. If you get two separate HPs that came with Windows 7 Home Premium, totally different models, without formatting the hard drive or anything, if you run something like Magic Jellybean, you should notice the product keys are exactly the same. For HP, Home Premium (Windows 7), the product key should be: 4FG99-BC3HD-73CQT-WMF7J-3Q6C9. Unless Microsoft can somehow disable those generic pre-activation keys, I don't think they can somehow link those to 10. That would mean every single HP that came with 7 would have an invalid key, regardless of whether the users upgraded to ten or not.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Doctor's laptop and odd programs.

I have never gotten the system images to work on the first machine I tried it on in 2011 so I just gave up on that routine and went back to cloning the drives. Of course I was only doing it for myself. Also, as you have noticed there seems to be no consistency from one moment to next with Microsoft as to what works or what is upgraded and avenues to downgrade once the upgrade has been done. With the cloning you know where you are going to start from. Perhaps what Stj said is the reason my neighbors Windows Updates will not work. He upgraded to Windows 10 for more than a month and when I recovered his out of the box OS, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit I was unable to update the Windows 7 Program Security. Perhaps it thinks it is a Window 10 and it does not compute as a Windows 7. Of course it would be nice if they would sensed this and ask the operator if they want to revert back to the Windows 7 license. The problem is they are not interested in what their customers want they want to push the Windows 10. Use to be they were wanting to please their customers and if there was a strong demand for a program they took note of this. That is what happen after XP they made Vista realized their mistake and came out with 7. Since seven they abandoned the desktop user and tried to capture the Apple Market. If I wanted an Apple computer and their touch screen Apps that is want I would buy. Apple has been in that market with this system longer than windows and hence know mores about it. I think this problem occur when Apple was targeting the school age population. They were giving them to junior high schools and such and these kids became use to them.

Another thing real quick like, the Windows 7 update servers or whatever you want to call them have changed a bit over the years. The update agent that comes with a Windows 7 SP1 disc does not seem to work with Windows Update. I had to use dism to slipstream a hotfix and the new update agent into the installation disc in order to get it to work. Once you get the machine fully updated, it will work.

If you want to try again, I can help you with creating the image, or I could just share my master image. It should work on any PC. You might want to change the answer file a bit to suit your needs. Microsoft told me it's okay to make copies of their disks so long as I don't share the product keys.

I could give you a private link to a fully updated install.wim file. Because a fully updated install.wim is so large and I almost always only deal with Home, I only have a Home one. I can create a Pro one if you'd like as well though. Just replace the install.wim on your disc / thumb drive with the fully updated one. It'd be around 6GB in size. I can also provide you with step by step directions if you'd like to do it yourself. It is a bit of a pain if you've never done it before, but it's so nice to be able to fully install Windows 7, fully updated, in 30 minutes or so. You can also customize the image yourself and add stuff like Google Chrome if you'd like. Personally, I don't do that. I prefer downloading the latest from the net.