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    Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

    Uh oh. Looks like I'm looking into upgrading again.
    Because my current PC requires a lot of PCI slots (and upgrading to similar USB, firewire, SCSI, sound, and PhysX cards for PCI express would cost more than it's worth) I'm stuck about two generations behind everyone else and am always trying new things to squeeze more performance out of my system.
    Right now I use an AMD Athlon XP 3000+ with an MSI K7N2 Delta2-LSR and 3GB of ram but recently I came across a 2.8Ghz Pentium 4 (freeeeee!). I wanted to see if it was better than my Athlon 3000+ and this review shows that it is slightly better however I'm having trouble with the trade-offs:
    1-To upgrade, I need to locate a Socket 478 motherboard with AGP, PCI, SATA, and support for either DDR or DDR2 ram.
    2-Apparently the Northwood Pentium 4 processors gave off insane amounts of heat.

    Considering that locating a new board would cost around $150 (+ $50-$75 if the board needs DDR2 ram), is it still worth the upgrade or should I just look for an Athlon XP 3200+ and live with what I got?

    EDIT: Here's the kind of board I am looking at should I upgrade.
    Last edited by pentium; 05-20-2009, 11:36 PM.
    Find Nedry!


    Check the Vending machines!!

    <----Computer says I need more beer.

    #2
    Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

    IMO, its not worth buying a new motherboard for that P4 unless you could find a used one on the cheap. The XP3000+ is a nice chip. I would save for a significant upgrade.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

      Originally posted by ss627
      IMO, its not worth buying a new motherboard for that P4 unless you could find a used one on the cheap. The XP3000+ is a nice chip. I would save for a significant upgrade.

      yopu mean like this board?

      I should probably be able to snag it for under $75 and I'm sold on the fact that it can support dual floppy drives (yes it sounds dumb to want that in these days but I need a decent system to image and read/write 5 1/4" and 3 1/2" floppies from).
      Find Nedry!


      Check the Vending machines!!

      <----Computer says I need more beer.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

        You're still stuck with AGP and DDR, not worth upgrading. You want cheap DDR2 and PCI-E. You can overclock that athlon to the speed of the p4.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

          That may be true NxB. However if Pentium is on a tight budget and wants a 478 motherboard cheap. It is quite possible (if you are willing to get second hand). I got my Intel D865GLC motherboard for around AU$30 from Ebay. Cheap as, however there are many auctions that are expensive as well.

          Considering what a good experience I had with Intel motherboard (D865GLC). I could not recommend them more. The Intel D865GLC is not the board for you. It has 3 PCI slots. However the Intel D865GBF is for you, it has AGP, 6xPCI slots, 4xDDR, 2xSATA. There is also the Intel D865perl, it has, AGP, 5xPCI, 4xDDR, 2xSATA.

          However those two models are only from the D865 based chipset's, I am sure that there are others. Intel boards typically come with good caps and are typically very well built and reliable.

          If you can not get an Intel board (or are not looking for one), I definitely recommend getting a motherboard based on an Intel chipset and not VIA and especially not SIS.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

            Maybe you can find a used board cheap on craigslist canada? Legacy hardware carries too much of a premium. 70-80 for that used P4 motherboard would net you a new intel 775 board or even a inexpensive board+ddr2 combo.

            If you have no problem with your tasks on older stuff, I guess spending "only" 70-80 bucks for a motherboard isnt a bad idea. However, a later model system would be a night and day difference. The way I look at it, faster stuff saves me time and lets me do more. I just stay away from the newest price gouged hardware.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

              http://cgi.ebay.ca/BIOSTAR-P4M900-M4...3%3A1|294%3A50

              lol..

              not worth the trouble IMO. sell some of your older stuff and get a decent Socket 775 board and a Pentium Dual-Core (not to be confused with the Pentium 4 based Pentium D's)

              http://cgi.ebay.ca/GIGABYTE-S-SERIES...3A1%7C294%3A50

              http://cgi.ebay.ca/Intel-E5200-Dual-...3%3A1|294%3A50

              (^ just as an example)

              and those thingys OC VERY well.. 3+GHz with no problem..

              my "old" Core 2 Duo E4300 (1.8GHz) runs perfectly fine at 3GHz..
              now imagine how far the E5200 would go ..

              oh and BTW.. even my E4300 at default speed (1.8GHz) is faster than my P4 2.8GHz HT (Prescott) OCed to 3GHz.. lol!

              those Core-based CPUs are *really* good performers =)

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                For me it isn't just the money.
                The problem I have with upgrading is that every time I do, I discover some little things that don't work anymore on the newer boards.

                I was a bit disappointed when I had no way to plug in my old Sound Blaster cards.
                I was very disappointed when I couldn't plug in my 15-pin joystick. Don't play games much anymore but when I do I want that joystick. A USB version of it is very expensive.

                Next upgrade, I'll probably end up without an LPT port. I use those for an old laser printer and also for an EPROM programmer. I've tried the "JetDirect" card over ethernet and it doesn't work right.

                I'll also probably end up without a floppy drive. And I do still use those.
                At least they still have PS/2 keyboard ports... I think. I'm not buying a modern keyboard - ever.

                Upgrading just annoys me, so I stick with what works. It'll be just as good tomorrow as it was yesterday.


                The new systems go beyond anything I care about, and suck at things I do care about. I'm not a teenager anymore so the new stuff just doesn't impress me like it used to.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                  the Gigabyte mainboard i've got in my main rig has all of what you've listed (except ISA slots for the old soundblasters )

                  The Gameport is only available as a slot bracket... (and only on older revisions).
                  however.. i don't like the onboard realtek crap (lan & sound) anyways..
                  that's why i've got my Soundblaster Live (with gameport :P ) & intel 10/100 LAN in there

                  those older Soundblaster cards are cheap as hell now (got 2 of them on ebay for 1EUR start bid each lol!)
                  i'm using the built-in XP driver for it, as i don't need all the "fancy stuff" that comes with the creative drivers. hey.. it puts out sound and the gameport works.. what else do u need?

                  edit:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                    Pentium, have you listened to our advises last year? Save up and go straight across to 775 and PCI-E stuff and stop spending on old stuff unless you can get one for fun and for pennies.

                    You can understand this very clearly with this bench chart.
                    And, I was in EXACT same position nearly just under 2 years ago when I went from 3000+ barton with A7N8X to P5K with Pentium Duo then E5200. And it was justified to skip P4 since barton core series is very competitive with P4 series.

                    http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=2

                    BTW, P4P800-E is EXCELLENT if you can drop pennies on it but less than 25 bucks. This ebay seller is selling this board for 80 plus which is in uncertain NO WAY you SHOULD pay for. That's new board territory and a lowest 775 socket intel chipset (yes asus) starts around 65 and up but it lacks enough slots and low end or horrors ancient intel chipset like D965 which is not acceptable.

                    The list of items goes like this proper way you should able to acquire at good price if you avoid local stores that overcharge these.

                    E5200:
                    http://www.canadacomputers.com/index...889&cid=CPU.84

                    P5Q This have 3 PCI slots, and 2 1x PCI-E and one 16x PCI-E, use a HD4770 video card, just recently came out (stomping on HD4830 and touching HD4870 series performance wise and shockingly good price too!), prefer Sappire due to quality, bit of kit adapters included (adapters: component, video & S-video, one DVI to VGA) and good price.
                    I always liked to go with P-series chipsets to avoid fluff.

                    P5Q:

                    http://www.canadacomputers.com/index...817&cid=MB.157

                    HD4770:
                    http://www.canadacomputers.com/index...id=999.243.272

                    Of course, Must get seasonic retail 380W or 450W PSU. This board does have one PATA but buy a SATA burner first then buy one then two SATA hard drives (prefer hitachi, not OLD SATA HD stuff!) later on. Avoid putting hard drives in raid and keep swapping out hard drive yearly, and keep original data on the old hard drive for another year. Hard drives are disposable now. It is not server-grade raid and and I never run consumer-grade raid, ever. If I want raid, must invest in 3Ware, and certainly not adaptec or promise. You cannot go half way with data and I avoid issues with consumer-grade raid commonly found on mainboards. This is how I not spend too much at same time keep data safe, yet have good performance.

                    Oh yes, the retail intel heatsink that comes with E5200 and seasonic retail PSU are QUIET.

                    If you splurge: E8400 which will work with XP VM in windows 7. E5200 does not have the ability to do VM properly.

                    Cheers, Wizard
                    Last edited by Wizard; 05-21-2009, 07:03 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                      10 minute cut off! Added to previous post:

                      Over the years, I see a pattern that I tend to be most happiest with were. And change over happens every 2-3 years cycle. Don't SKIMP! I was disappointed when I sell myself short on spending cheap. Typically the standard memory of the day in new systems and I tend to double or triple it. When I upgraded, it was 512MB or 1GB back then and I went straight for 2GB when I built this 775 box. My next upgrade system will be 8GB or 16GB when 64bit win 7 is out.

                      150-180 dollars for mainboard
                      130-230 for CPU
                      150-240 for video card (if the slot is same when I upgrade board, I delay it by six to a year later to upgrade video card).

                      Cheers, Wizard

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                        I'm just going to ignore this thread.
                        All I asked for was if it was worth going from an Athlon XP 3000+ system to a 2.8 P4 system. I didn't ask for people to tell me that I'm replacing old hardware with hardware that's a little less older. I don't want or have a need for top of the line hardware.
                        I dumped about $350 into my current system last year just before the PSU gave out. None of that hardware has since seen any use so just replacing it all now with brand new hardware (and trust me, everything would have to be replaced) would mean I threw money away.
                        So what if I can't play Dead-Space or Crysis on this older box. I just want it so I can play the Half-Life/HL2 series, surf the net, watch and convert videos and do other tasks.
                        Find Nedry!


                        Check the Vending machines!!

                        <----Computer says I need more beer.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                          Pentium, keep looking. P4P800 series under 25 dollars. That ebay seller is stupid on asking price. P4P800 was 4 years ago.

                          350 dollars put into a PC equals 75% new PC considering if buying new parts if skimping a little on hardware.

                          Cheers, Wizard

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                            Sigh that 10 minutes edit limit...here's the edited version:

                            Pentium, keep looking. P4P800 series under 25 dollars. That ebay seller is stupid on asking price. P4P800 was 4 years ago plus P4 was around so long and I bought a athlon 3000+ stuff in 2004 and P4 was there by then as well that is reason AMD was confident that 3000+ could compete with P4 at 3.0GHz back then. That is why we had you skip that 2.8 and go straight to 775 since you *already* have now-then decent setup and P4 2.8 is already in that area too so you are only going sideways to more stable board away from unstable, very old pre-USB 2.0 nvidia based mainboard with buggy SATA that absolutely corrupts, that's ALL. There is not a GOOD socket 462 board currently except the nforce2. I'm not even thinking about VIA or SiS.

                            I'm no longer buying used P4 2.8C CPUs, and have not bought any since early 2008 as I have run out of suitable decent boards and I'm all out of decent AGP cards and are not going to buy more of these anymore.
                            And I could not get the price on used boards (re: P4P800 I wanted at the price point. By the way, Pope might have P4P800 board, pm him).

                            350 dollars put into a PC equals 75% new PC considering if buying new parts if skimping a little on hardware.

                            You did give us your reasons for need for a better board and we thusly responded. Remember: PC are disposable *not* investment. Much easier to just jump ships and buy when time is RIGHT with new hardware even is too much for your needs right now and that is all you can GET right there except that horrible ebag stuff and risky. And works much BETTER with external and internal stuff and more stable on use. That was one biggest problem with socket 462 with chipsets. If intel or AMD had made a chipset for those, I would have! But it did not happen so I jumped ships to 775 when price came down to the budget level that I can afford to go there.

                            Trust me, software keep rolling and bloat and more worse bloat with time. Don't get behind.

                            Cheers, Wizard
                            Last edited by Wizard; 05-21-2009, 10:21 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                              Originally posted by pentium
                              2-Apparently the Northwood Pentium 4 processors gave off insane amounts of heat.
                              Nope.
                              The Prescott is the hot running processor.
                              Both Northwood and the later Cedar Mill run much cooler.
                              I own several P4 Northwood and Cedar Mill.
                              Excellent, all the way around.

                              The real issue is the 800 FSB speed in the P4.
                              This is where the work gets done.
                              When the FSB is busy, a fast processor only WAITS faster until the FSB is clear.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                                Not worth putting money into shit that's already behind the curve. You can get a NEW modern barebones for less than $350 on pricewatch.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                                  I went cheap on my Web server because of specific reasons, and lucky deals.

                                  I got an MSI 775 board, uATX specifically with onboard VGA.
                                  This was a brand new board for $45.

                                  I also came across a 3.2 GHz P4 Cedar Mill for $41.
                                  According to the internal signature, it was an Intel internal processor.
                                  This matters not, as it works flawlessly, and has a paltry 63w TDP. Very cool.

                                  For $86, I have a fast web server that runs cool.

                                  On the flip side, I bought an Intel 875PBZ and 3.2 GHz P4 that I paid way too much for... I could have gotten an E8400 system for a few bux more, so I bought poorly. However, these went into a client's server machine and they are happy with it.

                                  The best deal I find so far is the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UDP3 and an E8400.
                                  The performance is outstanding, and the price is modest.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                                    Originally posted by Scenic
                                    the Gigabyte mainboard i've got in my main rig has all of what you've listed (except ISA slots for the old soundblasters )

                                    The Gameport is only available as a slot bracket... (and only on older revisions).
                                    however.. i don't like the onboard realtek crap (lan & sound) anyways..
                                    that's why i've got my Soundblaster Live (with gameport :P ) & intel 10/100 LAN in there

                                    those older Soundblaster cards are cheap as hell now (got 2 of them on ebay for 1EUR start bid each lol!)
                                    i'm using the built-in XP driver for it, as i don't need all the "fancy stuff" that comes with the creative drivers. hey.. it puts out sound and the gameport works.. what else do u need?
                                    A sound card would work, sure, I just don't want to have to disable the nForce2 audio I already have.
                                    Even if I found a dedicated gameport-only card, I couldn't use it. One of the things that's broken on the nForce2 is that you can't disable the onboard gameport without also disabling sound. And since almost no motherboard actually *has* the onboard gameport (pin headers or otherwise), you're screwed.

                                    Something else that's broken is PCI video cards don't work. But I'm probably only 1 of about 3 people who ever ran into that.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                                      Originally posted by Pentium
                                      All I asked for was if it was worth going from an Athlon XP 3000+ system to a 2.8 P4 system.
                                      [...]
                                      I just want it so I can play the Half-Life/HL2 series, surf the net, watch and convert videos and do other tasks.
                                      All right then: you don't specify which 2.8 GHz P4 is so I can't assume it's an HT processor; HyperThreading aside, main differences between Athlon and P4 systems are (slightly) more processing power, SSE2 instructions and an Intel chipset for the latter.
                                      IMNSHO a migration to a P4 sistem (it isn't an up-grade, it's more like a side-grade) is worth if you can find a good, used socket 478 mobo for a reasonable amount of money ($30 max). Be real: a 2.8 GHz with SSE2 can speed up movie conversions up to 15% compared to your Barton, don't expect miracles; Half Life 2 is not so cpu intensive so the P4 may be marginally faster than the Athlon and the latter still allow playable game sessions with AA disabled.

                                      Don't waste money: if you can buy a mobo for a few bucks then it's ok to swap, otherwise sell the P4 and collect money for a way more powerful setup.

                                      Zandrax
                                      Have an happy life.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Go from XP3000+ to 2.8 P4?

                                        http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138079

                                        I know its a older biostar, but it runs ddr2, has a pci-e slot, and is still socket 478.

                                        Hey, at least the larger and VRM caps are UCC, all the smaller ones are ost.

                                        Comment

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