Which board should I choose from these two?

[Dan81]

I bought last year a pack of 4 LGA775 motherboards for $16, each being said it has something broken.

1. Gigabyte GA-EP31-DS3L - this one was said to have a bent pin in the socket, but it POST'd fine and all pins were straight.
2. ABIT IP35 PRO - this one would show up 84 POST code, beep then shut off. Bridging the Gate and Drain on a certain MOSFET near DIMM4 (the closest to the slot) brought it back to life along with setting the RAM to 2.1V in order to work correctly. (1.8v would result in lockups during POST, dunno why.)
3. MSI P6N SLI V2 - wouldn't power on, dead proprietary MSI chip. (probably a rebadged Winbond chip that is also used on ABIT motherboards)
4. ECS G41T-M7 - dead MOSFET which in turn must have fried the southbridge. I could care less about it although it's DDR3, because it's ECS.

After this I've been left with two working boards - a Gigabyte EP31-DS3L and the ABIT IP35 PRO.

I'm also planning on going with a Core 2 Quad (or at least a E7600 C2D if I can't find a quad) because my Athlon II X4 is driving me nuts with how slow can it get sometimes.

Which one do you recommend? By the way ASUS is out of the question, their boards are now ECS/PCChips quality and even then ECS fares better than a ASUS.

[Topcat]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

Seeing that the gigabyte is the only one that seems to function without workarounds or issues, the choice seems easy.

[Dan81]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

Seeing that the gigabyte is the only one that seems to function without workarounds or issues, the choice seems easy.

Somewhat, but it does have a drawback - I can't install 4 GB of RAM using all of my three sticks. It would report 3GB out of 4 and work 10x slower than the current AMD I have now.

It also doesn't help that it's a chipset limitation rather than bad hardware or such, and that some of my sticks are double-sided.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

ummm maybe none of the above cause they all suck?

according to gigabyte's website, the p31 chipset boards have the following limitations:

Because of chipset limitations

*To avoid the system being unable to start or the memory being incorrectly detected, if only one memory module is to be installed, we suggest that you install it on the DDR2_1 or DDR2_3 socket.

*To install two memory modules, we suggest that you install them on the DDR2_1 and DDR2_3 sockets, when the DDR2_2 or DDR2_4 socket is populated with a DDR2 1066 MHz memory module, the memory speed will be downgraded to 800 MHz).

*when using FSB 1333 MHz CPU with populating all DIMM sockets, memory frequency will be reduced from the original, and system instability or incorrect detection of memory module may be occur.

so it looks like the p31 chipset has issues with 1333 fsb. therefore, u are forced to use fsb 1066 or lower cpus if u want a glitch free board. this means if u want c2q, u are limited to a q6700 @ 2.66ghz as the best cpu supported without issues. not sure if a 2.6 ghz quad is fast enuff for what u want the system for.

next, the abit ip35 pro seems to be a highly problematic board. i see lots of listings on ebay of faulty ip35 boards being sold for parts or not working.

the msi p6n seems to be a nvidia chipset board. beware, those boards are doomed to failure due to bumpgate.

lastly, ecs luvs using ost junk caps on its boards. if the sb wasnt already fried, it might be worth recapping with better caps.

[Dan81]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

ummm maybe none of the above cause they all suck?

according to gigabyte's website, the p31 chipset boards have the following limitations:

so it looks like the p31 chipset has issues with 1333 fsb. therefore, u are forced to use fsb 1066 or lower cpus if u want a glitch free board. this means if u want c2q, u are limited to a q6700 @ 2.66ghz as the best cpu supported without issues. not sure if a 2.6 ghz quad is fast enuff for what u want the system for.

next, the abit ip35 pro seems to be a highly problematic board. i see lots of listings on ebay of faulty ip35 boards being sold for parts or not working.

the msi p6n seems to be a nvidia chipset board. beware, those boards are doomed to failure due to bumpgate.

lastly, ecs luvs using ost junk caps on its boards. if the sb wasnt already fried, it might be worth recapping with better caps.

Funny thing is I got the abit to work. For some reason it doesn't like running RAM on stock voltage, but 2.1v makes it happy.

Looks like I'm going with the abit then, since by far it's the only board that accepts 4GB without problems (tested) and it supports most CPUs. (except the E7600, even though several E7xxx chips are listed as compatible on this board) I tested it for about three days n 2.1v and got almost 10 out of 10 successful boots. (Only once it stopped on 94 code but a reset fixed that.)

[momaka]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

I'd still go with the Gigabyte and downclock the RAM if that's all it takes to detect all of your RAM (might need to install only 1 stick, then POST the board, then set RAM clocks in CMOS, then save, shut down, and install all 4 sticks). Even if you go from 800 MHz to 533 MHz, you still wouldn't notice much of a difference, especially on day-to-day tasks in the OS. Heck, even in games it won't matter that much.

As for the Abit... I wouldn't trust it with that MOSFET hack. Sounds like that board has deeper issues with a power rail. Unless you get that sorted out, I wouldn't suggest using it. Besides, 2.1V on DDR2 RAM chips is way WAY too much - they're not going to have a very long lifespan, that's for sure.

The ECS is cheap stuff, but not too bad. Did you change the dead MOSFET yet to conclude that the Southbridge is dead? Usually SB gets power from a linear regulator provided by one MOSFET, and I have never seen that go bad on any motherboard. Only seen MOSFETs burn up in buck regulators.

[brethin]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

I would go with the Abit, just make sure you keep it cool, ram heatsinks are cheap and 2.1v on the ram won't hurt it unless you don't cool the box property.

[Dan81]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

As for the Abit... I wouldn't trust it with that MOSFET hack. Sounds like that board has deeper issues with a power rail. Unless you get that sorted out, I wouldn't suggest using it. Besides, 2.1V on DDR2 RAM chips is way WAY too much - they're not going to have a very long lifespan, that's for sure.

Just for curiosity I went into BIOS and looked at the voltages, and all were more or less within spec.

As for the MOSFET hack, by far I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary except for the normal fact that all MOSFETS get hot, which is normal IMO.

Regarding the 2.1V on the RAM - here's a few things:

1.The other option involved raising the NB voltage which would be MORE dangerous. It was the only viable option, since RAM is replaceable. A northbridge isn't. (well, not that easy anyways.)

For the ECS - the SB gets scorching hot already. It's been gutted since I don't have DDR3 sticks anyways.

As for the Gigabyte - still not a viable option because it's not a frequency limitation, it's a chipset limitation.

brethin - even at 2.1v, the RAM sticks don't get that hot. They're warm to the touch, so I'd situate them somewhere in the 30-40*C range.

Also the case I will use is pretty large inside and is made from galvanized steel, so there's plenty of air. (although painted it black)

[brethin]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

Running the ram at 2.1v won't hurt a bit, most of the better ram likes the higher voltage, just make sure it stays cool, those temps look fine.

[Dan81]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

Running the ram at 2.1v won't hurt a bit, most of the better ram likes the higher voltage, just make sure it stays cool, those temps look fine.

Sticks are from ADATA, Kingmax and Elpida. Most of these brands are pretty good, especially ADATA.

[momaka]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

Just for curiosity I went into BIOS and looked at the voltages, and all were more or less within spec.

You mean you trust BIOS voltages? I wouldn't. At least half of my motherboards show gibberish (either slightly off or way off), except maybe for the CPU core voltage. So I always verify everything with a multimeter.

My guess would be your board is working with that MOSFET shorted, because it's probably a pass-through MOSFET and not a regulator - meaning it probably supplies some other regulator downstream, but doesn't do any regulation itself. If that's the case (very very likely, now that I read the symptoms again), you may have a dead secondary standby rail or faulty power controller (that is, whatever controls that MOSFET). Bridging the Gate and Drain is not a good fix. You need to find what the real problem is.

For the ECS - the SB gets scorching hot already. It's been gutted since I don't have DDR3 sticks anyways.

Yeah, that's understandable. I don't have much DDR3 sticks either. DDR3 and 4 are expensive now, whereas DDR2 is super-cheap: a little over $1 per GB on average.

Sticks are from ADATA, Kingmax and Elpida. Most of these brands are pretty good, especially ADATA.

ADATA is a cheap brand, but they are usually okay quality. Same goes for Kingmax. Elpida is the only one that is truly good, as they are not rebrander's - they make their own RAM, and often for OEMs like Dell and HP. So they are on par with Nanya and Micron Tech. The only ones above them are Hynix, Samsung, and Qimonda/Infineon.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

I've had bad luck with Nanya.

What about Corsair and Kingston?

[Dan81]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

You mean you trust BIOS voltages? I wouldn't. At least half of my motherboards show gibberish (either slightly off or way off), except maybe for the CPU core voltage. So I always verify everything with a multimeter.

My guess would be your board is working with that MOSFET shorted, because it's probably a pass-through MOSFET and not a regulator - meaning it probably supplies some other regulator downstream, but doesn't do any regulation itself. If that's the case (very very likely, now that I read the symptoms again), you may have a dead secondary standby rail or faulty power controller (that is, whatever controls that MOSFET). Bridging the Gate and Drain is not a good fix. You need to find what the real problem is.

I measured the voltages with a multimeter and they're the same as in the BIOS which are pretty much spot-on. (just slightly off by .02V or so).

As for the MOSFET, it may have been simply stuck? It's responsible for supplying RAM voltage by the looks of it, since before bridging it I would get a 84 error, which meant there was a problem in the DDR voltage.

ADATA is a cheap brand, but they are usually okay quality. Same goes for Kingmax. Elpida is the only one that is truly good, as they are not rebrander's - they make their own RAM, and often for OEMs like Dell and HP. So they are on par with Nanya and Micron Tech. The only ones above them are Hynix, Samsung, and Qimonda/Infineon.

As far as it concerns, my ADATA stick looks pretty solid build wise. Kingmax, you're pretty much right although I haven't checked what chips it used. Finally, the Elpida stick really came from a HP , a dx2200 I think.

[momaka]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

As for the MOSFET, it may have been simply stuck? It's responsible for supplying RAM voltage by the looks of it, since before bridging it I would get a 84 error, which meant there was a problem in the DDR voltage.

A stuck MOSFET means it's likely shorted. If that was the problem, the motherboard would have been working.

As I mentioned, this is probably a pass-through MOSFET - i.e. 3.3V input (likely) and 3.3V output. DDR requires 2.5-2.6V, so there's probably another MOSFET after this that does the regulation (i.e. drop 3.3V to 2.5-2.6V). Many motherboards are set up like that. The reason for the first (pass-through) MOSFET is to provide isolation between the PSU's 3.3V rail and motherboard's standby 3.3V rail (which is usually generated from 5VSB through a small regulator or IC). So whenever the PC is in stand-by, the pass-through MOSFET is Off, and there is 3.3V going to the RAM regulator from the motherboard's 3.3V standby rail.

Finally, the Elpida stick really came from a HP , a dx2200 I think.

Yup, Elpida is a known good OEM supplier. I like them quite a bit. My favorite, of course, are still Nynix, Samsung, and Micron Technology.

I've had bad luck with Nanya.

What about Corsair and Kingston?

Yeah, I've had a few iffy Nanya modules. But for the most part, they are okay.
Kingston I've never had a problem with.
Crucial is okay.
Corsair I've had plenty of bad RAM from them - some completely bad, some just fails to run at full speed, and some only working on certain motherboards. Same goes with OCZ.

[Dan81]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

A stuck MOSFET means it's likely shorted. If that was the problem, the motherboard would have been working.

As I mentioned, this is probably a pass-through MOSFET - i.e. 3.3V input (likely) and 3.3V output. DDR requires 2.5-2.6V, so there's probably another MOSFET after this that does the regulation (i.e. drop 3.3V to 2.5-2.6V). Many motherboards are set up like that. The reason for the first (pass-through) MOSFET is to provide isolation between the PSU's 3.3V rail and motherboard's standby 3.3V rail (which is usually generated from 5VSB through a small regulator or IC). So whenever the PC is in stand-by, the pass-through MOSFET is Off, and there is 3.3V going to the RAM regulator from the motherboard's 3.3V standby rail.

I replaced the original MOSFET the board came with with a new one and the same behaviour, and even replaced the other mosfet next to it.

It didn't change the 84 post code. I only went with shorting the pins as a last resort after I got bored enough to try and kill that MOSFET (yes, sometimes I have nothing better to do) and much to my surprise, using a screwdriver to short the Gate and Drain pins actually "unstuck" the MOSFET, allowing the board to POST. Removing the short while running would simply result in a hang, board powers down a few seconds after then reboots into the 84 error code. (RAM voltage ready)

I'll try measuring if there's 3.3v going through it in standby (I also have to reflash the BIOS, because I killed the BIOS by trying to flash beta 20 BIOS. Learnt my lesson tho and now I tracked down another IP35 (non Pro) to use to revive my IP35 Pro - have a "Ligushka" modded beta 18 file, now there's hope that one doesn't hang. (although not sure if I should flash it using flashrom (that open source linux flasher, it has a DOS binary variant too) or using ABIT's Awd894) but I quite doubt it. Will also post a picture of the said side with MOSFETS.

[momaka]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

I replaced the original MOSFET the board came with with a new one and the same behaviour, and even replaced the other mosfet next to it.

It didn't change the 84 post code. I only went with shorting the pins as a last resort after I got bored enough to try and kill that MOSFET (yes, sometimes I have nothing better to do) and much to my surprise, using a screwdriver to short the Gate and Drain pins actually "unstuck" the MOSFET, allowing the board to POST. Removing the short while running would simply result in a hang, board powers down a few seconds after then reboots into the 84 error code. (RAM voltage ready)

Right, that's what I said above: if the problem was the MOSFET, then changing the MOSFET would fix the board. But that clearly isn't the issue if the board works when you "bridge" the MOSFET. (I bet you the board would also work if you removed the MOSFET and just bridged Drain and Source).

Most likely, whatever circuit is repsonsible for driving the MOSFET is bad, and that's why the board is not working. The motherboard's 3.3V standby rail is not meant to be able to provide full current for the RAM's 2.5V DDR voltage, but only for the RAM Vtt, which is what the RAM needs when the PC is On and when it is in Standby/sleep (but not in Soft-Off)

... because I killed the BIOS by trying to flash beta 20 BIOS. Learnt my lesson tho and now I tracked down another IP35 (non Pro) to use to revive my IP35 Pro - have a "Ligushka" modded beta 18 file, now there's hope that one doesn't hang.

That's why I never upgrade the BIOS. The only exception is if I want to use a CPU that is not supported or the board has a known bug otherwise. Other than that, I keep it whatever it came with. There's too much chance of bricking the board with a bad BIOS flash. With video cards, I'm not so worried, because I have PCI cards as well as boards that can take both PCI, PCI-E, and AGP video cards, so I can always flash a video card again.

[Dan81]

Re: Which board should I choose from these two?

Right, that's what I said above: if the problem was the MOSFET, then changing the MOSFET would fix the board. But that clearly isn't the issue if the board works when you "bridge" the MOSFET. (I bet you the board would also work if you removed the MOSFET and just bridged Drain and Source).


Most likely, whatever circuit is repsonsible for driving the MOSFET is bad, and that's why the board is not working. The motherboard's 3.3V standby rail is not meant to be able to provide full current for the RAM's 2.5V DDR voltage, but only for the RAM Vtt, which is what the RAM needs when the PC is On and when it is in Standby/sleep (but not in Soft-Off)

Oh, if that's the case I do not have any use for Standby/Sleep state. I thought you were saying about the Soft-Off state when you first flip the switch from the back of the PSU, but I guess that's not the case.

That's why I never upgrade the BIOS. The only exception is if I want to use a CPU that is not supported or the board has a known bug otherwise. Other than that, I keep it whatever it came with. There's too much chance of bricking the board with a bad BIOS flash. With video cards, I'm not so worried, because I have PCI cards as well as boards that can take both PCI, PCI-E, and AGP video cards, so I can always flash a video card again.

Well, I did need somewhat of the BIOS upgrade since I had a Core 2 Duo E7600 that although recognized by BIOS it would report about 103*C. I might give it a go again after I fix the BIOS (I tracked down a IP35 non-Pro model that supposedly is dead but seller said he's got null knowledge in PCs and thought it died after the PSU blew. I got a pretty beefy nJoy (which I should find some caps sometime to recap it, ChengX caps - nuff' said!) to test it with, and it comes with a quite nice case with thermal sensors. (it's not a Deer this time though), and a E6400 C2D which I'm very sure it's a 65nm Conroe, which is okay for me.

Regarding the Pro variant, I'm pretty sure that the RAM does not get any voltage during Soft-Off. Other than that, I'll be sure to keep an eye for a BIOS setting that doesn't hang when using 1.8v RAM, and I'm pretty sure that I have to look at the MCH/Northbridge voltage rather than RAM voltage. It's a really nice OC'ing board and it would be a shame to let it die just because of a bad BIOS flash. I've did a research and the IP35 (non-Pro) does have a 8Mb (1024k) flash as well, and it's just a matter of swapping the bad (as in bad BIOS, not bad chip) Winbond 8Mb chip in the working IP35, firing up a flasher (please let me know if I should use the open-source flashrom or abit's AWDFLASH utility) and flashing "Ligushka" 's modded beta 1.8 BIOS (I did get that one to flash successfully, it was only beta20 that wouldn't flash no matter what) and then putting it back on the Pro.