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Panasonic CE series after 30 years

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    #1

    Panasonic CE series after 30 years

    After recapping the Roland JUNO-60 and JUPITER-4-- all of the Panasonic CE series capacitors have leaked out of the seals [always] at the right lead.

    While I love Panasonic capacitors, this shows that after 30 years these things need to be replaced and DO NOT have magical abilities to make the synths sound better. The sound improved *after* the recapping.

    From the JUPITER-4, this one unfortunately ate traces on the controller board which I repaired:


    These four came from the JUNO-60:


    Thankfully I had some RX30s on hand in 47uF and replaced them all:


    I was not able to recap the bipolar electrolytics yet because... those aren't easy to find.
    Here you'll see the blue panasonic bipolars (notice they don't have positive/negative markings unlike the nearby black sanyos):
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    #2
    Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

    Originally posted by theokretes View Post
    While I love Panasonic capacitors, this shows that after 30 years these things need to be replaced and DO NOT have magical abilities to make the synths sound better. The sound improved *after* the recapping.
    I don't understand why the sound quality wouldn't improve after replacing bad caps.

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

      Originally posted by lti View Post
      I don't understand why the sound quality wouldn't improve after replacing bad caps.
      He said in the post you quoted that recapping made them sound better.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

        My 1st thought was that the poster "IT" may have just been being sarcastic when he/she posted that comment.
        Maybe not.
        How to properly apply thermal grease - Y_not's way.

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          #5
          Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

          of course replacing the bad caps should make it sound better!should perform like it was new again.electrolytic caps are the only thing in a synth that degrades over time.
          you just dont notice it till its really bad!

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

            While I love Panasonic capacitors, this shows that after 30 years these things need to be replaced ...
            That's just the nature of electrolytic capacitors. Their liquid electrolyte gives electrolytic capacitors wear-out mechanisms that film or ceramic capacitors do not have. That's true regardless of vendor - Panasonic, Nichicon, Rubycon, UCC, Marcon, Sprague, CDE, Mallory, Elna, etc..
            PeteS in CA

            Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
            ****************************
            To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
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              #7
              Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

              Originally posted by kc8adu View Post
              of course replacing the bad caps should make it sound better!should perform like it was new again.electrolytic caps are the only thing in a synth that degrades over time.
              you just dont notice it till its really bad!
              Yep. The electrolyte can dry out, and the audio will be weak or tinny.

              I have seen many old capacitors like these (from different brands). They do leak after a while. It is part of the normal aging of the capacitor.
              Muh-soggy-knee

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                #8
                Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

                I wanted to add....
                That is an absolutely beautiful circuit board, a work of art!
                I can't stop looking at it for some reason. Thanks for the purdy pics!

                This is a synthesizer, like a keyboard, not a sound mixing board, right? How many layers is it?
                How to properly apply thermal grease - Y_not's way.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

                  Originally posted by cheapie View Post
                  He said in the post you quoted that recapping made them sound better.
                  It sounded like someone told him that the old caps would have sounded better than new ones.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Panasonic CE series after 30 years

                    Originally posted by y_not View Post
                    I wanted to add....
                    That is an absolutely beautiful circuit board, a work of art!
                    I can't stop looking at it for some reason. Thanks for the purdy pics!

                    This is a synthesizer, like a keyboard, not a sound mixing board, right? How many layers is it?

                    Yeah those circuit pictures are from the JUNO-60, the main board is (to my surprise) dual layered. Other boards are single layered, like for the bucket brigade chorus: this is what provides the majority of its rich creamy sound.

                    Because the sound generation circuitry is analog and not digital-- the components are laid out a lot differently than what you'd normally see.

                    Here's an audio sample if you want to hear some of its basic sound output:
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txhHsvAKZcs

                    Also, my JUNO-60 still has its original 1982 lithium ion battery. It hasn't exploded yet and still holds the patch memory. I really ought to change it out soon though. I keep telling myself that :p

                    Originally posted by lti View Post
                    It sounded like someone told him that the old caps would have sounded better than new ones.
                    This is correct, some "audiophiles" will tell you that the original capacitors are better than new ones.
                    Go read a few threads on gearslutz and you'll see people state that the original caps make the synth sound better, or are manufactured to a higher quality than what is available today. All of that is false.
                    As the capacitors age, their electrolyte fades. And they can dry up.

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