I hate 478

[Shocker]

Who designed this retarded socket???

The pins are too flimsy (EVERY 478 chip I have has bent pins), the heatsinks are horribly difficult to remove and also bend the motherboard when installed. Combined with the NetBurst core's poor general performance, it's pretty much a deal-breaker. The clips sometimes break too. Just dented a Ruby MBZ with the corner of the heatsink. But I don't trust VIA, at least not their KT600. What should I do???

Here are the system's specifications (in case you're curious):

CPUs: Went through three so far (I think they were Northwood 3066, 2800, and 2533); used standard Intel heatsink for all
Board: Gigabyte "P4 Titan", Rubycon MBZ and Sanyo WG caps
Power: Delta "Giant Power" 300W
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 40GB
RAM: Tried three sticks, couldn't get it to work with any of them

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: I hate 478

IMO the 478's retention is miles better than the LGA one... And i've only bent pins on one P4 CPU. But each one with their own.

[Shocker]

Re: I hate 478

IMO the 478's retention is miles better than the LGA one...

I suppose, but it's still worse than 5/7/370/462.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: I hate 478

Don't forget to add overheating POS to that list.

I hate 478 heatsink retention bracket. Damn things break so easily. I like the LGA design better. AMD retention is decent too.

As for bent pins, I really haven't had a problem with this. You just got protect them.

P4 were just total crap. The Athlon XPs gave them a run for their money.

[Krankshaft]

Re: I hate 478

Like LGA 775 is any better?

The CPU manufacturers just passed the buck on bent pins to the motherboard manufacturers .

It's way easier to damage a 775 socket and at least on 478 and any other pin based CPU if you mess it up you can gently bend a pin back in place. Forget that on 775 sockets the contacts are too flimsy.

[Shocker]

Re: I hate 478

Like LGA 775 is any better?

The CPU manufacturers just passed the buck on bent pins to the motherboard manufacturers .

It's way easier to damage a 775 socket and at least on 478 and any other pin based CPU if you mess it up you can gently bend a pin back in place. Forget that on 775 sockets the contacts are too flimsy.

It depends on how bent the pin is. Don't get your hopes high if it's bent more than 30°.

[ratdude747]

Re: I hate 478

It's way easier to damage a 775 socket and at least on 478 and any other pin based CPU if you mess it up you can gently bend a pin back in place. Forget that on 775 sockets the contacts are too flimsy.

It can be done... I've done it with success twice... careful work with a needle is the trick...

The Idea was that since the MOBO is usually cheaper than the CPU , it would be better for the system owner to have the flimsy part on the MOBO...

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If you want to talk screwy sockets, try sockets 603 and 604... they use those stoopid metal hestsink clips (I hate them) and the screwy socket 423 bolt pattern... if you think 478 is bad, you've seen nothing...

[goodpsusearch]

Re: I hate 478

IMO the 478's retention is miles better than the LGA one...

I agree!

[Topcat]

Re: I hate 478

I've taken 478 chips with every singe pin bent and fixed them for use. A razor blade works wonders on them. LGA sockets are flimsy piles of shit, I'd take ZIF sockets any day.

[c_hegge]

Re: I hate 478

But I don't trust VIA, at least not their KT600.

I had an ASUS A7V600-X Motherboard two main rigs ago, and the motherboard my Grandma's PC is an MSI KT6. Both are based on the KT600, and IMO, that is a great chipset, almost as good as the nForce 2.

As far as the mounting is concerned, I'll take 478 any day. I hate how the Socket 775 and newer heat sinks are difficult to install without taking the board out. My preffered mounting mechanism, though is Socket 754/939/AM2/AM3, though. It's the easiest of them all.

[shovenose]

Re: I hate 478

AMD might make crappy CPUs but their sockets and heatsink retention mechanism is great!

[Topcat]

Re: I hate 478

^
I have to agree. S939 and S940 are really the best when it came to this. Metal reinforcement brackets underneath prevent a massively warped board and guarantee a good solid contact. Intel S423, S603, and S604 sockets also had a similar cooling solution...but whoever thought that plastic retention bracket on the topside of the PCB with nothing on the bottom side for the S478 needs to be sweeping the floor of the warehouse, not participating in any design projects

[ratdude747]

Re: I hate 478

^
I have to agree. S939 and S940 are really the best when it came to this. Metal reinforcement brackets underneath prevent a massively warped board and guarantee a good solid contact. Intel S423, S603, and S604 sockets also had a similar cooling solution...but whoever thought that plastic retention bracket on the topside of the PCB with nothing on the bottom side for the S478 needs to be sweeping the floor of the warehouse, not participating in any design projects

I disagree.

the 423/604 system used 2 brackets that were not connected, thus needing a backplate to maintain rigidity.

socket 478 used a one-piece bracket that was stable by itself for regualr sized coolers... for larger coolers, they made screw plate upgrades.

The reason AMD used them was because the 939 used 2 mount points, not 4, which required nuts and bolts to be strong enough... and to do a nut/bolt bracket the right way, you need a back plate to ease the install... in and for AM2 they kept the same tradition to allow the use of the same coolers (but used 4 mount points to allow heavier coolers)

I actually liked the later 478 layout... I know that fanner tech (parent of masscool and speeze) made a cooler that used a single lever to latch the cooler... sure, the heatsink's machining was rough and the fans were crap, but after a new fan and some sanding/buffing, it is a great product that is how 478 retainers shoudl have been made. It literally lines itself up automatically as it fits within the bracket. all you do is lien it up and flip the lever.

I have only seen a broken 478 bracket once, and I have never broken one. They are also easy and now days cheap (<$5 online)...

My pet peeves are with:

am2/939/etc. - lining up the latch can be a PITA with cramped quarters and large coolers...

socket 5/7/370/462 - same as above, plus they used such tiny mount points that were both hard to hit and fimsy as hell... plus, since the mounts were part of the socket, if you broke that, you just nuked the board (unless you can re-solder a new socket, good luck).

socket 423/603/604/early 478:



they used PITA metal clips to mount the CPU cooler... I have broken those before and they are a PITA to remove... its like a PITA 370 cooler, only twice the clips! yes, the clip mounts are bigger but they have the same PITA geometry... This could have been improved if they used a system similar to the mounts used by Dell optiplex 260's:





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I am on the fence with the 775 types... the twist pins can be a pita and are a tad flimsy, but gettign the cooler installed is a hell of a lot easier than my peeve list.

[Topcat]

Re: I hate 478

I disagree.

the 423/604 system used 2 brackets that were not connected, thus needing a backplate to maintain rigidity.

Not quite. The backplates provided support for the tension pushing down on the board. Many low-end boards using these cheesy 478 brackets ended up with severely warped PCB's and cracked sockets/broken contacts because of this. Look at the board from the side, and you'll see where the PCB will be distorted, especially on the Dell you have shown, which appears to be a GX260 (or something close to it).

Anything newer or high end has a metal bracket (most in a nice stamped "X" config) that braces back side of the board to handle the pressure. 939/940/AM2/all 603+ Xeons, and most LGA's support this. Just about all the 478's did not, as there were SMT components on the back side of the board under the socket, or the socket itself used through-hole pinning, so this type of bracket could not be used without interfering with these components.

So I stand by my comments.

[Shocker]

Re: I hate 478

I had an ASUS A7V600-X Motherboard two main rigs ago, and the motherboard my Grandma's PC is an MSI KT6. Both are based on the KT600, and IMO, that is a great chipset, almost as good as the nForce 2.

As far as the mounting is concerned, I'll take 478 any day. I hate how the Socket 775 and newer heat sinks are difficult to install without taking the board out. My preffered mounting mechanism, though is Socket 754/939/AM2/AM3, though. It's the easiest of them all.

I've had two boards with the KT600. After a while, the first RAM slot wouldn't work, and the second board had that problem as soon as I got it. Also on the second board, I had a problem with the primary slave drive not detecting properly, showing a corrupted model number (like S 3 0 1 A) and showing up as an 8.4GB drive. And I know it's the board's problem, because the same hard drives work fine in different positions or on different boards.

I would NEVER accept a chipset that does those things constantly. And no, they weren't the same model boards. One was an MSI and the other was an ECS (I know, I know...).

[ratdude747]

Re: I hate 478

Not quite. The backplates provided support for the tension pushing down on the board. Many low-end boards using these cheesy 478 brackets ended up with severely warped PCB's and cracked sockets/broken contacts because of this. Look at the board from the side, and you'll see where the PCB will be distorted, especially on the Dell you have shown, which appears to be a GX260 (or something close to it).

Anything newer or high end has a metal bracket (most in a nice stamped "X" config) that braces back side of the board to handle the pressure. 939/940/AM2/all 603+ Xeons, and most LGA's support this. Just about all the 478's did not, as there were SMT components on the back side of the board under the socket, or the socket itself used through-hole pinning, so this type of bracket could not be used without interfering with these components.

So I stand by my comments.

Actually, Most OEM things DID use backplates of some form... Even dell, who used threadless backplates with pushpins (opltiplexes)... the other common form was using standoffs that went to the mobo tray and used the tray as a backplate (dell dimension, anything HP/compaq).

I also correct both you and I, as there were 604's without backplates... look at the pics in the Supermicro X5DAL manual...

BTW, that pic isn't mine... I found it online... I re-homed my Gx260 18 months ago.

[Uranium-235]

Re: I hate 478

AMD might make crappy CPUs but their sockets and heatsink retention mechanism is great!

lets not get started about how wrong you are (amd vs intel fighting)

603/604 comes in different flavors. I've seen the same mounts for 423, i've seen mounts that have the same spacing for 423, but have 478 instead of the normal 423. in the end, 604/603 is best cause you can just take the damn mounts off and use screwd in heatsinks, most of the time, as rat found out that some plates use different threading

tc is spot on with the 478 bending. when I worked for goodwill I bent pins allll thhheee tiiimme with razor blades. but also on 939's, 754's, and oh god tons of stuff

775 has its flaws. I remember once I had one where after I mounted the board, one pushpin on the top, right of the heatsink would just flex the board, and flexed it too much it would not safely push down. I had to get a floppy cable, place the cable connector under the board where the pin was for support and it went in just fine. the problem with the 775 pins themselves is they're not too soft but too rigid. once bent, it takes some doing to bend them back safely. as where CPU pins usually have some soft gold plating, and are easy to bend back, of course, if they're bent completely down, cause they're soft gold plated, they sometimes break off completely.

[mcdaydavies]

Re: I hate 478

The 478 retention mechanism is better than the lga775 and 462 systems. On the 462, I would almost always crack the CPU dye and with the 775's, the motherboard would always bend due to the terrible design. It always feels like you are going to damage the motherboard when using them shitty pushpins. Having said that, I have had a 478 bracket snap when putting the heatsink on. Just poor design on intels part, the AMD mechanisms seem much better.

[Uranium-235]

Re: I hate 478

I have NEVER cracked a 462 die. never seen one cracked ether

[Topcat]

Re: I hate 478

^
Me either.

Some 775 mechanisms are junk, some are good....but they're a damn sight better than a 478.

RD, the Dell underplates were not for support, they were to align the tray with the case. They offered no support for the underside of teh board. Dell had some plates that screwed to the bracket and were pretty tough (came on some GX270 and GX280 systems)....but as a rule, the standard 478 mechanisms were crap. I cant tell you how many I've seen with broken tabs that made the sink come loose, and cause all kinds of thermal issues and cooking things......

I am glad that the socket370 and socket 462 days are gone...I was so tired of getting really good boards in for repair, just to discover the socket tabs were broken off, and the board was unusable.