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2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

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    #21
    Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

    Ok, after weeks of practicing desoldering with sucker-braid-needle unsuccessfully, I'm thinking of going for this:

    http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10146

    I'm pretty sure this will get the job done fast and with little or no skills needed. My only question is...am I better off spending $89 for this or buying a new motherboard, case, cpu cooler, and a new operating system all for just under $250? With a new LGA775 mobo, I can still salvage the cpu, ram, power supply and hard/optical drives from the old PC.

    If I choose to recap, it will certainly save me $250 in the short term. But will it save me the time and aggravation if something else would fail?

    Comment


      #22
      Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

      It takes a few attempts to build up soldering skills. I'd see if you can find some junk boards to practice on. Ask around - a lot of people have a clunker PC sitting in their garage or closet somewhere. Once you figure out how to do it, then work on your board. For a first time repair, I wouldn't practice on the board you're trying to repair. There's too much risk of damaging something further. When I started out doing soldering work, it took me a few tries. At first it was very frustrating. I kept at it, and I eventually had an "ah ha" moment where everything clicked. It's all about technique, and once you figure it out, it becomes simple pretty quickly.

      Now, I've recapped boards with nothing more than a $30 soldering iron and a dental pick. I have better stuff I use in the shop, but for field repairs I can't drag all that around. Sure, the fancy equipment does the job faster, but unless you plan on doing soldering work frequently, it's not necessary for a one-off repair.

      Just not getting the hang of it? The site's owner (Topcat on the forum), offers capacitor replacement services at reasonable rates (less than the price of your proposed desoldering station).

      Repair or replace is your call. Most people on here would say to repair the system. Properly done, you should have a reliable system once more. Then again, this is a forum full of people who repair electronics, so perhaps we're biased toward that.

      Comment


        #23
        Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

        Originally posted by Salamander View Post
        Switching gears, when putting molten solder into a hole during cap installation, will it flow through the other side of the hole and touch or perhaps melt the plastic base of the capacitor?
        It's not plastic, it's rubber.
        And you WANT it to flow through the holes.
        Some of the connections are in between the layers of the board.
        .

        IMHO You have better odds of long term reliability with a properly rebuilt board than you do of achieving the same with a new mail-order board.
        New boards can be a craps shoot because what [caps] you see in the photo isn't always what you get.
        - But nothing is certain either way.

        If you are not comfortable doing a recap then either have someone else do it or go with a new board.

        .
        Mann-Made Global Warming.
        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

        -
        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

        - Dr Seuss
        -
        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
        -

        Comment


          #24
          Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

          Yyonline:

          Thanks for the advice. I'll give myself another shot at this and hopefully I'll be more patient this time.


          PCBonez:

          Luckily I found this illustration last week:

          http://www.circuitmedic.com/guides/5-3.shtml

          Note the inner layer traces are already attached to the plated hole. Don't you think it's no longer necessary to fill it completely with solder?

          Just another thought. If a cap fails, the next in line would likely be a MOSFET (as Seanc pointed out). How would you know if a transistor has failed? Are there visual signs? If it fails, does it end there or will it affect other components as well? Is it going to be easy to replace a MOSFET?

          Comment


            #25
            Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

            If a mosfet fails, it may do it quietly or you may smell it and it may well crack/pop the mosfet casing. Then your PC won't work.

            Removing/replacing those mosfets is not particularly easy.

            It's been nearly a month since you started this thread. You're still running on borrowed time.

            Comment


              #26
              Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

              Originally posted by seanc View Post
              ASUS build quality isn't brilliant, they do use bad cap brands/models (like KZG). Some ASUS boards just die for no reason, their RMA service is very difficult to use.

              Gigabyte for the most part use solid polymer japanese caps, if you do have an issue, their RMA service is excellent. Where they do use aluminium electrolytic, they're usually Nichion.

              I've tried Foxconn, ASUS, Abit, Intel and I always go back to Gigabyte because they're more reliable and just work out of the box. Shipped hundreds of machines and in the last 3 years I can count the failures on my hands.
              woah woah woah, asus has been good lately, sure a few years ago thier quality blew, but now they're making up for it. last dead asus I saw was a A8N-E

              gigabyte is good too
              Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
              ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

              Comment


                #27
                Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                Originally posted by Salamander View Post
                Yyonline:

                Thanks for the advice. I'll give myself another shot at this and hopefully I'll be more patient this time.


                PCBonez:

                Luckily I found this illustration last week:

                http://www.circuitmedic.com/guides/5-3.shtml

                Note the inner layer traces are already attached to the plated hole. Don't you think it's no longer necessary to fill it completely with solder?

                Just another thought. If a cap fails, the next in line would likely be a MOSFET (as Seanc pointed out). How would you know if a transistor has failed? Are there visual signs? If it fails, does it end there or will it affect other components as well? Is it going to be easy to replace a MOSFET?
                Fill the hole.
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment


                  #28
                  Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                  Originally posted by Uranium-235 View Post
                  woah woah woah, asus has been good lately, sure a few years ago thier quality blew, but now they're making up for it. last dead asus I saw was a A8N-E

                  gigabyte is good too
                  I've got P5N-E SLI with a dead northbridge.
                  P5L-VM 1394 littered with KZG. KZG are no good.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                    some blame can be laid with the Nvidia chips used during these days. I've seen HP, Gateway boards with these chips do the same thing. But asus is part to blame as to HP for not using good enough cooling

                    yes, asus boards of this era had KZG's and suffered. but newer asus boards are using polys around the VRM, but yeah still on occassion have KZG's for the smaller caps, but i've even seen gigabytes with cheap brands for the smaller caps for the budget board lines
                    Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
                    ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                      Newer ASUS are better it has to be said. I'll occasionally put some out to test quality. The overall finish of Gigabyte & the stuff in the box just feels better to me. I build it, it works. No funny drivers. That and Gigabyte's warranty service in the UK is easily accessible.
                      Want to RMA an ASUS board? Jump through hoops, pay a fee to have it handled. I've given up on my last board coming back.

                      I have had two Gigabyte 945GZM fail in the last couple of months with duff TK caps. Both in use 24/7. They're taking mosfets, sometimes RAM. At least the ASUS KZG are failing non-destructively.

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                        Originally posted by seanc View Post
                        Newer ASUS are better it has to be said.
                        The reviews I've seen don't support the idea there has been improvement overall.
                        I think you just got lucky a couple of times.
                        .
                        Mann-Made Global Warming.
                        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                        -
                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                        - Dr Seuss
                        -
                        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                        -

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                          Maybe, they've been some variant of G31M MATX which have had solid caps.

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                            Originally posted by Uranium-235 View Post
                            [...] but i've even seen gigabytes with cheap brands for the smaller caps for the budget board lines
                            the only caps one could consider "cheap" on lower end gigabyte boards were mostly 16V 100uF LTec's for the fan headers, filtering for the onboard LAN and Sound and stuff like that..

                            the only gigabyte board i've had which had really crappy caps was a 73PVM-S2H (GeForce 7100 / nForce 630i). instead of LTecs for the tiny caps, it had Evercon (a.k.a. Sacon/GSC)
                            then again... nvidia chipset.. so it's going to fail far too soon anyways.. coincidence..?

                            edit: in fact.. this board failed about 4months after the 2 year warranty expired.. no wonder with only a passive aluminium heatsink (colored to look like copper) on the northbridge. runs at 60-65°C in idle .. interesting thing is that this board has a place for a northbridge fan header (right next to the clear cmos jumper, which is pretty darn far away) but there's no connector. if it had a fan, it might be still working fine.. kinda sad :/
                            Last edited by Scenic; 03-15-2011, 10:48 AM.

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                              the shop i've been working at for almost 2 years have done a number of board replacements and the only ones we've had come back are asrock (asus cheap brand)

                              we've used msi, biostar, asus and so far have had NONE come back *knock on wood*
                              Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
                              ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                                my asus board is all polymer so win for me I guess.
                                there is a issue with this board from new though and that is you have to adjust the north bridge voltage and ram voltage higher else it won't install win7 or run correctly after tweaking it is good.
                                My pc
                                CPU : AMD PHENOM II x4 @ 3.5Ghz
                                MB : ASUS M4A89TD PRO USB3
                                RAM : Kingston ValueRAM 16gb DDR3
                                PSU : Cooler Master 850W Silent Pro
                                GPU : ATI Radeon HD 6850

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                                  Originally posted by joshnz View Post
                                  my asus board is all polymer so win for me I guess.
                                  there is a issue with this board from new though and that is you have to adjust the north bridge voltage and ram voltage higher else it won't install win7 or run correctly after tweaking it is good.
                                  There are a lot of Asus polymer boards that have problems.
                                  I suspect it is because Asus design engineers incorrectly implement polymers.
                                  Excessively low ESR can lead to the same kinds of instabilities as too high of ESR and Asus seems to do that.
                                  That is especially true in their first generation of all polymer boards.
                                  Those things started showing up on Experts Exchange with unexplainable problems about as soon as they were released.
                                  .
                                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                  -
                                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                  - Dr Seuss
                                  -
                                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                  -

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                                    Holy 11 year old thread revival Batman!

                                    Hello everyone, this is my first time posting in this area of BADCAPS. I normally post in the TV repair forum. I have some experience working on TVs, much of that learned from this site.

                                    Interestingly enough this Dell XP410 PC I'm working on represents a lot of firsts for me.

                                    It came to me in the first abandoned storage unit I've ever purchased.

                                    It's the first PC I've ever "hacked" as it was PIN protected. I was able to get in after some "command line magic".

                                    It's the first PC I've ever totally disassembled and attempted to repair.

                                    So, the PC has 5 bad electrolytic capacitors on the MB. I was able to get it to boot and it appeared to run OK, but I know blown caps are a problem waiting to happen. I only ran it long enough to hack in, wipe the hard drive, reset it to its factory state (also a first for me) and go through the limited set-up.

                                    Another problem....this thing is FILTHY....and the dust smells like this PC was in a meth user or meth cook's house. See the pictures....WHAT heat sink? lol it doesn't look like it's doing much heat removal with all that black dust in it! This unit looks like it has never been cleaned!

                                    Last night I completely disassembled the unit and started with cleaning the boards and case while wearing a NIOSH mask for auto painting. I intend to continue cleaning the rest of the unit today. I also intend to order the caps needed to repair the board.

                                    Before I start asking questions, I intend to repair this PC and give it to a friend of mine who lost everything in a house fire. She literally lost everything and had no insurance. She has a daughter who could really use this for school. I'd like to know when she gets it that the PC has a strong chance to be reliable and hopefully not break down until she can get one of her own. After that I plan to use it in my shop, mainly as an inventory control unit.

                                    So here are my questions: First, should I be replacing all of the KZG and KZJ caps, or are the ones not blown OK to continue using? In extension of this question should I just go ahead and replace all the electrolytics while I have this thing stripped down to its skivvies?

                                    Second, does anyone have a brand recommendation for replacements? My preference would be to use Panasonic caps, but what series should I choose?

                                    Third, this storage unit had a near new and clean 45w Craftsman soldering iron in it. I know, how convenient, right?! Does anyone think it's too much wattage for replacing caps?

                                    Fourth, I'm thinking of cleaning all the sockets with some kind of spray cleaner and the contact points on the cards/connectors with 90% iso. Am I wasting my time with this effort? If not, can anyone recommend a spray cleaner that is appropriate for the job?

                                    As this is my first ever PC repair, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

                                    Thanks for your advice and I appreciate it!
                                    Attached Files
                                    They call me......."threadkiller"

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                                      You need to inspect the board closer: it has some bad Rubycon caps too: C111BV C94BV
                                      I would at least change all caps of the same model and rating where one have failed.
                                      For replacement it depends a bit on where you want to buy them, but anything really low ESR can be used.
                                      Best is usually to poly mod a board like this, since ultra low ESR caps are hard to come by nowdays.
                                      "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                                        Originally posted by Per Hansson View Post
                                        You need to inspect the board closer: it has some bad Rubycon caps too: C111BV C94BV
                                        I would at least change all caps of the same model and rating where one have failed.
                                        For replacement it depends a bit on where you want to buy them, but anything really low ESR can be used.
                                        Best is usually to poly mod a board like this, since ultra low ESR caps are hard to come by nowdays.
                                        Thanks for the reply Per Hansson, I saw those caps, and I will be replacing them.

                                        You suggested I "poly mod" this board. I'm not familiar with this mod. I think I read something earlier in this thread about the same thing, but one poster seemed to think this mod could have detrimental effects?

                                        This said, can you elaborate on what the "poly mod" is, and if there could be problems as a result?

                                        My best guess is you are suggesting I use "poly caps" in place of the failed electrolytics, or are you suggesting I replace all of the electrolytics with polys?

                                        Thanks for your suggestions and help!
                                        They call me......."threadkiller"

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

                                          The best you can get in electrolytic at 3300uF is Panasonic FS around 20mOhm ESR, almost twice the originals...
                                          If you go for Polymer caps you have to check the voltages: because you might not be able to find them with ratings matching the originals.
                                          But at least they will be able to match or exceed the ESR of the originals.
                                          Things change in 11 years, what was sound advice then no longer is due to production advancements.
                                          See this thread for example: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=65732
                                          "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

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