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Questions about EC's(KBC)

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    #1

    Questions about EC's(KBC)

    Hi

    I would like to find out if anyone know about a possible list regarding KBCs(EC) that do auto programing on boot or when needed from SPI Flash and those that require programming externally via a programmer tool.

    I have had success with EC chips from other boards with no issue. Even different makes (HP, ACER, ASUS)

    I have this Acer V5-572G-53336 (ZRK Model) with a bad EC IT8587E (Shorted)
    and a spare from a Gigabyte but I suspect this EC requires External programming via a programming tool... Since I replaced it the laptop comes on but only FAN spins and nothing else. Also I don't have an external programmer for the EC yet...

    Only have a TL866CS for the other chips. I havent tried wiring directly to the chip but either way I don't think the software for this programmer supports ITE chips and I can't seem to find a open/free dump of the EC itself.

    Thanks
    while alive { live(toFullest=true) }
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    #2
    Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

    Not much info on this on the web… Not a useful contribution but the Quanta Y11A with IT8987E does it.
    OpenBoardView — https://github.com/OpenBoardView/OpenBoardView

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

      Piernov thanks for the reply! Sorry what do you mean by "IT8987E does it." does it self program or do you (the tech) need to reprogram it. :P
      Maybe I'll make a list of this. I know so far from memory... that most of the low number ones don't need reprogramming from a tool.
      while alive { live(toFullest=true) }

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

        If I understand well the answer, there are two situation, first if the ec has an external eprom
        Its simply, programming it with external programmer but it there isnt any eprom it's necessary a dedicaded programmer like vertianov or otbers.
        At the moment I dont know other method to programmer ec.
        Asus sometime is an exception, the ec take the firmware directly from BIOS if all' works well. For example in x555ld model.
        Last edited by jasko_jacker; 10-18-2018, 06:13 AM.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

          Originally posted by jasko_jacker View Post
          If I understand well the answer, there are two situation, first if the ec has an external eprom
          Its simply, programming it with external programmer but it there isnt any eprom it's necessary a dedicaded programmer like vertianov or otbers.
          At the moment I dont know other method to programmer ec.
          Asus sometime is an exception, the ec take the firmware directly from BIOS if all' works well. For example in x555ld model.
          @Jasko_jacker exactly!. Thanks for the info its exactly what I was asking about

          EDIT:
          IT8585E | self/auto programmable from BIOS(ROM)
          IT8987E | self/auto programmable from BIOS(ROM)
          IT8514E | self/auto programmable from BIOS
          IT8502E | self/auto programmable from BIOS

          IT8587E | needs external programing via tool (? suspected so far)
          Last edited by MJ-meo-dmt; 10-18-2018, 08:18 AM. Reason: adding infos found so far
          while alive { live(toFullest=true) }

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

            Ah the IT8987E on Quanta Y11A is self programming… will edit my message to clarify.
            OpenBoardView — https://github.com/OpenBoardView/OpenBoardView

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

              Now let us consider the laptop designers belonging to Dell or Asus or HP. They receive EC and PCH and GPU from other companies and then they have to design a mainboard for these chips. thus probably there are datasheets available for every one of these chips that explains every detail. We (as laptop repair technicians) have to have those datasheets too.
              How can we find datasheets for EC and PCH and GPU?

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                Originally posted by caspian View Post
                Now let us consider the laptop designers belonging to Dell or Asus or HP. They receive EC and PCH and GPU from other companies and then they have to design a mainboard for these chips. thus probably there are datasheets available for every one of these chips that explains every detail. We (as laptop repair technicians) have to have those datasheets too.
                How can we find datasheets for EC and PCH and GPU?
                @caspian. Good question!

                Some EC datasheets are available... but not nearly enough.
                while alive { live(toFullest=true) }

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                  It8502e is not programmable. I too confirm that it8987e gets autoprogrammed on quanta y11a mb.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                    those datasheets are a few and in limited details. Probably, there exist some other datasheets that explain all details about KBC and PCH and GPU. they may be restricted from the public.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                      The KBC's on ASUS boards get programmed when the board turns on. I tried it myself on a couple of ASUS boards. I used the programmer to write blank file into the KBC. After first power on, I than turned off the motherboard and read the KBC. All the KBC's were programmed from the BIOS successfully.

                      Most other motherboards need the KBC to be programmed, either they won't turn on, or won't get all the voltages, etc...

                      In my knowledge, but I may be wrong, programmable KBC's are following:

                      ITE IT8386, ITE IT858x, ITE IT898x
                      ENE KB901x, ENE KB902 and KB902x
                      MEC1609/1619/163x/1650/5045/55/65/75/85...
                      Nuvoton NPCE288N, NPCE388N
                      Last edited by razor_amd; 10-21-2018, 12:40 PM.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                        I have read on russian forum about ITE858x, when is blank (new) , on first power-on it reads EC block from SPI and it programs itself. When is taken from a donor board where previously used, it doesn't do that and needs to be programmed or erased externally.My experience is with few 8585e and 8586e, after replace with new chip it worked this way on Asus boards.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                          Originally posted by razor_amd View Post
                          The KBC's on ASUS boards get programmed when the board turns on. I tried it myself on a couple of ASUS boards. I used the programmer to write blank file into the KBC. After first power on, I than turned off the motherboard and read the KBC. All the KBC's were programmed from the BIOS successfully.

                          Most other motherboards need the KBC to be programmed, either they won't turn on, or won't get all the voltages, etc...

                          In my knowledge, but I may be wrong, programmable KBC's are following:

                          ITE IT8386, ITE IT858x, ITE IT898x
                          ENE KB901x, ENE KB902 and KB902x
                          MEC1609/1619/163x/1650/5045/55/65/75/85...
                          Nuvoton NPCE288N, NPCE388N
                          @razor_amd. Thanks for that list
                          @homeless_cz. Thanks for that info!

                          It seems then in my case with the Acer i have which uses a IT8587E needs to be erased first externally and then it may work via programming itself on first turn on....
                          while alive { live(toFullest=true) }

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                            Originally posted by caspian View Post
                            those datasheets are a few and in limited details. Probably, there exist some other datasheets that explain all details about KBC and PCH and GPU. they may be restricted from the public.
                            Vertianov the guy (I think he's an enginerring) who built the programmer, had a lot of difficulty finding documentation especially on ITEs, if we exclude the pins that have a declared function, the problem is on the pin declared as general purpose to which the function is given by the firmware. Same with the hub and the cpu, intel has a lot of public documentation but to be able to understand it, you need to have a good knowledge as an engineer and/or a lot of money to spend in equipment to use the debug, boundary scan, etc. I think that those who repair a notebook for money do not have time to apply all these procedures (place the probes of a logic analyzer, etc). I have a repair shop and customers want to me to repair the notebook in one day or else they buy it as new. Only with a notebook that I buy as defekt I have the time to study the situation. A good place i chinafix but I fail the join procedure because I haven't chine cell number.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Questions about EC's(KBC)

                              That is right. customers are always in a hurry.
                              As mainboard manufacturers gradually make mainboards difficult to repair, repairshops have to improve their knowledge of KBC, PCH, and GPU as well.

                              Comment

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