Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

[Chungalin]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

When you repair a TV that is not yours, that fine detail about what happened days or minutes before the final failure, or in what circumstances it eventually failed (while on, when turning on, etc.) is usually LOST. Even more if user is not the same person that brings me the TV (or any other appliance). I try to obtain as much information I can from customer/user, because that helps a lot to diagnose, but sometimes I cannot get any useful information other than "it doesn’t work". It’s frustrating...

I don’t know of anybody in my island who has a serious reflow station capable of reflowing a CPU as big as this one. I should have read this thread more carefully before ordering the NAND. Now I think I’m done with this TV.

Chungalin is my alias, and Calimero is Calimero everywhere.

[Davi.p]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

I was trying to save you from wasting time 'cause i have followed too the road of bad software, reading well all the cases in internet i have found the answer. In Italian sub forum many people succesful repaired the board by reflow or professional reballing. If you want i have explained in the month november here a homemade technique for how to reflow without powerful hot air station. Search.. Or if the method doesn't capture you it's maybe possible to enhance this method with a home made reballing. I was studying this method but the fall of money eearnings for theese complex repairs doesn't help..

[Maalobs]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

I'd like to read that reflow description, can you post a link to it?
I can only find a single instance during last November where you mentioned the word reflow.

[Davi.p]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=90061 post 12

[Wiebotje]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

With booting until the "cannot mount VFS something block (249,0) the NAND Flash is just fine. It's often an DDR RAM VREF resistor at the bottom that's broken. (2x 1k in series with 100nF caps over it)
It should divide 1,5Volts to 750mVRef to define what level is logical "1" or "0" for the DRAMs.

[Davi.p]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Why do you think that many boards that i've seen has been fixed by CPU resoldering?

[lsd777]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

With booting until the "cannot mount VFS something block (249,0) the NAND Flash is just fine. It's often an DDR RAM VREF resistor at the bottom that's broken. (2x 1k in series with 100nF caps over it)
It should divide 1,5Volts to 750mVRef to define what level is logical "1" or "0" for the DRAMs.

tell me the serial number of the resistors in the diagram

[Zano64]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Hi everybody. I have very much appreciated this thread related to Philips smart TV revival.
I have a 47PFL7108 model which was randomly stopping, sometimes restarting by itself or otherwise blinking the LED two times. When in SDM mode the error code was 53, just like on your sets.
After several trials I have carefully applied the method described by NAVI.P and ALPENGEIST (thanks to them). I used a hot air gun delivering approximately 250°C, during less than 1 minute on the Fusion 120 chip, after protection of the surroundings.
AND I REVIVED THE TV SET !

I now will equip the chip with a larger aluminum heat sink, with an opening in the rear cover to have it outside the TV set for better heat evacuation.

THis is my first post and sorry but I am not able to upload photos.
Next time ?

[Davi.p]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Next time what?

[Maalobs]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Well done, monsieur!
You dared to tackle the reflow yourself, and succeeded.

Another nice fellow here on the forum contacted me in pm last year, he also had a QFU-chassis Philips TV that had suffered the same fate.
I don't know why he had such stage fright that he couldn't start his own thread, because after his successful reflow I think he made an elegant solution by simply handsawing into the PLA-plastic to make room for a bigger heatsink from an old computer-motherboard:


Regarding the heatsink; if your TV-model also has the two mounting holes diagonally across the main processor in the same way as on the TV in this thread, I've realized later that the standard format distance between the holes isn't 55mm as I had measured it, but 54.6mm, so if you search for that then you will find a lot more options on heatsinks:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...eatsink+54.6mm
400 micrometers makes all the difference.

The TV that I fixed in this thread is still going strong, and still remains the main TV of my friend that I fixed it for.

Generally though, to prolong the longevity of the device, you should run the brightness and Ambilight at as low a level as you can tolerate.

In a consumer agency test a couple of years ago here in Sweden, it was discovered that if you ran the brightness at the maximum level on the TV, some manufacturers were actually running the backlight-LEDs at over-voltage!
But even running the LEDs at close to their limit is very bad for their life expectancy, so try lowering the brightness and see how low you can set it and still maintain an acceptable picture.

My friend who owns this particular TV is keeping both the Ambilight and the backlight-LEDs dialed down, so we are not expecting any LED issues.
I bought the NAND Flash chip in a lot of 2 from AliExpress, so he has one more NAND chip left as backup, for when the current one eventually fails.
Then we'll replace in the last NAND chip and he'll be able to run the TV a few more years.

[kazbayadum]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Hello

It works for me too. Error 2 -> Code 53 -> reflow cpu -> sucess.

Thank you to all for this thread.

[Maalobs]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Good job!
Just don't forget to handle the cooling of the processor, or you'll eventually end up in the same situation again.

[dominik0801]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Well done, monsieur!
You dared to tackle the reflow yourself, and succeeded.

Another nice fellow here on the forum contacted me in pm last year, he also had a QFU-chassis Philips TV that had suffered the same fate.
I don't know why he had such stage fright that he couldn't start his own thread, because after his successful reflow I think he made an elegant solution by simply handsawing into the PLA-plastic to make room for a bigger heatsink from an old computer-motherboard:


Regarding the heatsink; if your TV-model also has the two mounting holes diagonally across the main processor in the same way as on the TV in this thread, I've realized later that the standard format distance between the holes isn't 55mm as I had measured it, but 54.6mm, so if you search for that then you will find a lot more options on heatsinks:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...eatsink+54.6mm
400 micrometers makes all the difference.

The TV that I fixed in this thread is still going strong, and still remains the main TV of my friend that I fixed it for.

Generally though, to prolong the longevity of the device, you should run the brightness and Ambilight at as low a level as you can tolerate.

In a consumer agency test a couple of years ago here in Sweden, it was discovered that if you ran the brightness at the maximum level on the TV, some manufacturers were actually running the backlight-LEDs at over-voltage!
But even running the LEDs at close to their limit is very bad for their life expectancy, so try lowering the brightness and see how low you can set it and still maintain an acceptable picture.

My friend who owns this particular TV is keeping it dialed down, so we are not expecting any LED issues.
I bought the NAND Flash chip in a lot of 2 from AliExpress, so he has one more NAND chip left as backup, for when the current one eventually fails.
Then we'll replace in the last NAND chip and he'll be able to run the TV a few more years.

Sometimes I come back to the QFU series TV threads, because as dodgy they are, the more I love them.
I bought mine as faulty, because I have joy in fixing stuff for myself.
It makes me a lot happier, than buying something off the shelf.

It was nice to see my picture in your post, but let me tell you my story about this TV.

I bought the TV as used, not working, however, the problem was just the flat cable, I had to jump the +12V between the mainboard and tcon. It was working fine. This was in 2020 september, so 1 year ago.

Then one day I woke up seeing my TV's stand by led blink 2 times, not turning on anymore. (2020 december)
I read about the 2 blink issue exactly in this thread, so I blew the CPU with my hot air soldering station at like 300C, low air, for 1 minutes. I then assembled the TV back together, with the stock cooler. After a few days, I did the cooler modification in Maloobs' post. It lasted for exactly 2 weeks.

Please note, that 300c upper heating without bottom heating is impossible to actually reflow the chip, especially under 1 minutes. Just a regular VGA VRAM chip needs 450c to melt the solder balls under it, and its a lot smaller and thinner.

Then I heated the chip again, this time with 215c, as I read on another forum.

The TV lasted for 1 month. Maybe important to note, that while it was working this time, I was constantly checking the heat of the heatsink with my hands while the TV was on. This will be an interesting information for later on.
(Also, note that when I first heated the chip, I also touched and modified the CPU area of the board physically several times.)

After that happened, I heated the heatsink itself to 220c without taking off the back cover of the TV, because I was lazy. The thing is, it worked. That time I also put a small fan on the heatsink and soldered it to the 3.3V line on the motherboard. I again, checked the temps many times with my hand on the heatsink, and to be honest, it was almost COLD with the fan on, so I knew that I might have fixed the overheating issue. (2021 january)

It died again after 1 month.

Since I was trying different time and temperature values, that time I again heated the heatsink on the chip with 260c for like 1-2 minutes, put the TV back on the shelf, worked again, and I did NOT touch the heatsink anymore.. (2021 february)
not until this Monday (2021 september), when I noticed that the fan on the heatsink got a bit louder, and took it off to oil it up, then put back.
Boom, after 7 months of working, the TV died again the same day I touched the heatsink of the chip.

This got me thinking.. maybe my TV actually has a bad BGA contact, rather than a bad CPU? Dunno, but I just lazily reheated the heatsink again, but after 1 day it died again.

So... today I went against my laziness, disassembled the TV, put the motherboard on the BGA machine, and properly gave it a controlled reflow with liquid flux.

Put everything back together, TV works, and now theres just one question: for how long will it work? Time will tell!

Sorry for the long post, I really wanted to share every piece of information, in case it could help other people here.

If you would ask me, why I struggle this much with this TV... my answer would be to read the first paragraph of my post!

[Davi.p]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

This last post is so boring and nothing useful... This cpu needs a serious reballing, also watch it by lateral vision when mounted on board, see if it or the board are bent.. Doesn't someone have tried the previously mentioned method of the resistor? Or is a fake?

[dominik0801]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

This last post is so boring and nothing useful... This cpu needs a serious reballing, also watch it by lateral vision when mounted on board, see if it or the board are bent.. Doesn't someone have tried the previously mentioned method of the resistor? Or is a fake?

Sorry that you found it boring and useless.

My last post was meant to help others to decide whether they want to try heating it or give it a proper reflow/reball.
Also an encouragement to put a little fan on the CPU heatsink. Mine went from 60c to 35-40c with a 5x5mm fan connected to 3.3v, which is barely audible.

Also, I shared all of this, because while you say the CPU needs proper reballing, other forums (and also another member of this forum, who also happened to post in this thread) says that not the balls, but the CPU itself is the cause of the problem, and it just needs HEAT to be revived (he states that 215c is perfect, because it won't melt balls, and the TV will still work due to heat shock).
I also read posts which say reballing is useless and/or makes things worse in some cases because of the thin PCB.

You see, there's really not just BGA balls to go bad with a flipchip design, but also microBGA under the die, and thin copper traces inside, that can get thinner over time due to electronmigration, can cause shorts or just go open.

Of course I am NOT against reballing, but in the end of the day, I would say a PROPER reflow is the way to go, since it won't just melt the balls, but also will give the chip a heat shock which can fix microBGA and electronmigration problems (even if the last two will not last too long, if adequate cooling is not applied).

[Davi.p]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

In my opinion nothing can be better with reflow or quasi reflow than reballing, this is making me rivaluate what the man says about that resistor, in fact i've made a true reflow on it with all balls melting but the tv got worse, no more power up..

[dominik0801]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

In my opinion nothing can be better with reflow or quasi reflow than reballing, this is making me rivaluate what the man says about that resistor, in fact i've made a true reflow on it with all balls melting but the tv got worse, no more power up..

It could be that the heat aligned the electrons or microBGA inside the die in a bad way, it happens, and it isn't always a bad use of heat, some chips can be more sensitive than others.

Didn't your chip "popcorn"? I mean, its hard to know since the fusion has a lid on the top.

(btw, i know nothing about the resistor thingy, but does someone know anything about the fusion chips on aliexpress?)

[Davi.p]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

there was some chips on ebay many months ago.. yes my cpu can be popped you reminded me this.
So reflow must be made slowly by the bottom maybe..

[Maalobs]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Dominik; Wait, so you had access to a BGA soldering machine the whole time, but you didn't use it?

The guy who did the reflow for me, which was just a reheat and reuse of existing solder, he used a huge hot air station that is not meant for soldering I think but for other industrial purposes.
The handle was the size of the operator's remote control for a small industrial crane.
It was a few years ago now, but as I recall the actual heating took just a couple of minutes or something, and after that we chatted for maybe fifteen minutes while we waited for the board to slowly cool down.

He talk about how there was an art to doing this sort of thing.
He heated up the chip until it "danced" on the melted solder, then he gently tapped the corner of the chip with a pair of tweezers and watched the chip flow back into position again by itself.
Then he immediately stopped heating the chip any further.
Maybe he applied additional flux too around the edges, I didn't see that, I just heard him start up what sounded like a leaf blower in the back room.

I don't know what temperature or air flow he was running at, but he said the benefit of the big machine was that the nozzle was so wide that it heated the entire chip at once, and the machine was powerful enough to heat consistently across the entire area which also meant that he could work fast enough without heating the chip for too long.

The TV that this board was for, is still running perfectly fine.

And why knock on someone else's experimentation, finding out ways that don't work is also a valuable learning experience, if nothing else it narrows the field for later attempts.

Another method the guy showed me that was pretty cool, was how he quickly handled smartphones that people had let the battery drain on completely.
If you let the battery drain entirely, you risk a situation where the battery won't charge up anymore.
There is some careful charge-up protocol you have to use to recover the battery to a state where the normal charger can take over again, but he had reduced the process to art and skill again.
He had an old HP rack-powersupply up on a shelf with multimeter probes hanging down from the output plugs.
The power supply was set to some wierd voltage with two decimal precision and CC-mode for a specific current.
When a phone arrived for repair, he opened it to expose the battery contact pads and put the probe tips against the pads and watched the voltage drop on the power supply.
He had learned that when it dropped to a specific level, he would lift the probes, count a few seconds then put down the probes again, and repeat until he saw a familiar change in how slowly the voltage drop happened.
Then he'd plug in a USB-charger into the phone and let it charge the rest of the way.
It just took a couple of minutes and was like watching a virtuoso at work.

And I can tell you this, he didn't wake up one morning and come up with the exact method, this was the result of a long line of failed attempts and discoveries of how NOT to do it.
The trick is as always to never repeat the same mistake again.

[dominik0801]

Re: Philips 60PFL8708S/12 - QFU1.2E LA - Error code 53

Dominik; Wait, so you had access to a BGA soldering machine the whole time, but you didn't use it?

The guy who did the reflow for me, which was just a reheat and reuse of existing solder, he used a huge hot air station that is not meant for soldering I think but for other industrial purposes.
The handle was the size of the operator's remote control for a small industrial crane.
It was a few years ago now, but as I recall the actual heating took just a couple of minutes or something, and after that we chatted for maybe fifteen minutes while we waited for the board to slowly cool down.

He talk about how there was an art to doing this sort of thing.
He heated up the chip until it "danced" on the melted solder, then he gently tapped the corner of the chip with a pair of tweezers and watched the chip flow back into position again by itself.
Then he immediately stopped heating the chip any further.
Maybe he applied additional flux too around the edges, I didn't see that, I just heard him start up what sounded like a leaf blower in the back room.

I don't know what temperature or air flow he was running at, but he said the benefit of the big machine was that the nozzle was so wide that it heated the entire chip at once, and the machine was powerful enough to heat consistently across the entire area which also meant that he could work fast enough without heating the chip for too long.

The TV that this board was for, is still running perfectly fine.

And why knock on someone else's experimentation, finding out ways that don't work is also a valuable learning experience, if nothing else it narrows the field for later attempts.

Another method the guy showed me that was pretty cool, was how he quickly handled smartphones that people had let the battery drain on completely.
If you let the battery drain entirely, you risk a situation where the battery won't charge up anymore.
There is some careful charge-up protocol you have to use to recover the battery to a state where the normal charger can take over again, but he had reduced the process to art and skill again.
He had an old HP rack-powersupply up on a shelf with multimeter probes hanging down from the output plugs.
The power supply was set to some wierd voltage with two decimal precision and CC-mode for a specific current.
When a phone arrived for repair, he opened it to expose the battery contact pads and put the probe tips against the pads and watched the voltage drop on the power supply.
He had learned that when it dropped to a specific level, he would lift the probes, count a few seconds then put down the probes again, and repeat until he saw a familiar change in how slowly the voltage drop happened.
Then he'd plug in a USB-charger into the phone and let it charge the rest of the way.
It just took a couple of minutes and was like watching a virtuoso at work.

And I can tell you this, he didn't wake up one morning and come up with the exact method, this was the result of a long line of failed attempts and discoveries of how NOT to do it.
The trick is as always to never repeat the same mistake again.

Well, I bought the BGA machine this year in March, so when I first got the problem, I didn't yet have the machine. Then as you saw in the boring post, in february I had a heating so successful, that it lasted till this month, so I just didn't have to use it on the TV.

Also, when I got the machine, I wasn't so comfortable with it yet, popcorned a few GPUs. Not to meantion, that I later realized the machine had a factory fault that would have easily killed me, but when I did the glass removing and IR plate changing mod on it, I fixed that problem too.

Now I am comfortable with the machine, I am changing GPUs on VGAs weekly, so this is why I was ready to use it on my TV. Hopefully it will last long this time, bc I love it.

And yes, experiements are nice ways to learn new stuff, this TV is definitely an experiementing playground. :P