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#1421 | |
a fake rubycon
Join Date: Jan 2017
City & State: california
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 122.5VAC 59.9Hz
Posts: 512
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![]() Quote:
![]() (Of course a mod can edit it for me (and cross out the '̶O̶k̶a̶y̶i̶s̶h̶'̶ part instead of removing it ![]() Last edited by ruky con; 01-17-2018 at 04:02 PM.. |
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#1422 | |||||||
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,687
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![]() Quote:
All of the units above that goodpsusearch shows are indeed made by Deer/L&C/Allied (parent company is Solytech). And yes, they ARE a huge company - maybe not as big as Delta, but probably not that far behind. They just have a crap-ton of different factories for their different PSUs lines: namely Solytech/Allied, Deer, and L&C - all varying in quality from decent to complete crap, respectively. The thing that makes Solytech a big company is volume of sales of low-end units. Because of that, they slap together whatever crap components they can find locally at the time to meet demand - hence the variation in component sizes. But if you look at the design of their PSUs, you can easily tell they are made by the same company. Not only are they very similar from a circuit design standpoint but also from component placement and selection. For example, Solytech often uses those YC (planet logo) caps in their PSUs. As for circuit similarities, you need to get several older Deer/L&C PSUs from the late 90's and early 2000's, then a few more from 2005 and beyond and compare them all. Starting with the late 90's and early 2000's units, you will be able to see how they change the circuit design each year a little by little to make improvements or cut costs - whichever applies. For example, late 90's and early 2000's Deer PSUs all had a single-transistor feedback-less 5VSB circuit with a 7805 linear regulator for producing the 5VSB. Then around 2002-2003, they started using their 2-transistor 5VSB with a critical cap (always a 50V/22uF, IIRC). Later revisions just saw minor tweaks on the 5VSB circuit, but it was still mostly the same. And around 2007 or later, that's when they started using offline ICs for some of their "higher-end" units (i.e. Allied and Solytech units built for bigger relabelers like Rosewill). Quote:
Now those were really *really* crappy units, btw! That was the first PSU I ever completely gutted for parts. It saved the lives of many other electronics, though! ![]() RIP dear Meico. ![]() Quote:
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Could also be that those 10V caps went bad or the startup cap is bad - those could cause voltage instability as well. Quote:
![]() The Aspire/Apevia ATX-AS520W I posted a while back was even more terrible in the SMD department - components were barely in their spots. It's a miracle the whole PSU actually worked. Any SMD work I saw after that looks like the works of Delta compared to that Aspire PSU. Quote:
![]() Last edited by momaka; 01-20-2018 at 07:11 AM.. |
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#1423 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
City & State: sasd
My Country: asasf
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 52
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![]() Bestec-250-12 Z
Ran 2-3 hours per day from early 2006 - late 2010, Pentium 4 506 + XFX FX 5200 (2008) .. ![]() ![]() luckily didn't kill my Mobo ![]() XfX Fx 5200 with "EVERCON 125 c" caps is still working.. ![]() Last edited by jarvis7; 01-20-2018 at 12:52 PM.. |
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#1424 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,945
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![]() That terrible conductive glue again
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#1425 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Northern Germany
My Country: Germany
Line Voltage: 230VAC/50Hz or 400VAC/3P/50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,109
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#1426 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2004
City & State: North Springfield, Vermont
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 123-127V 61.5-63.5 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,500
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![]() OTOH, the "E" version is known to kill motherboards! (Bestec ATX-250-12E)
But the good news, the "E" was before 2005, IIRC.
__________________
Asus P6T Deluxe Core i7 Extreme "Bloomfield" 965 PNY GeForce GTX 960 Windows 7 SP1 SoundBlaster ZXR Corsair TX850M PSU "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat "Don't eat yellow snow!" -Salem "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747 Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 01-21-2018 at 07:44 PM.. |
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#1427 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
City & State: Harrisburg, PA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
Posts: 1,597
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![]() ^This, the "Z" variants still have Jamicon caps (and conductive glue in older ones) and thus still tend to fail after 3-5 years of use, but without the 2-transistor 5VSB and "critical cap" of the "E" models they generally don't take anything with them when they fail (While the "E" models cooked just about every early to mid 2000s E-machines motherboard since virtually all E-machines of this era shipped with a Bestec ATX-250-12E, leading to Bestec's infamous reputation of frying motherboards).
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#1428 | |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,779
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![]() Quote:
I remember a 1999 Delta PSU made for Sun Micro that used a Topswitch to develop both secondary side Vcc and a 7805 for the 5VSB. We had to change to a LM317 in that circuit because the out turn-on rise time was too fast for Sun's spec. The divider that set the output voltage let us add a cap that slowed the rise time. I was in Taiwan, helping bring up the first prototype and then hand-carried the completed unit to Sun, my previous employer.
__________________
PeteS in CA Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells. Where might is right There is no right. - Sophocles in "Antigone" **************************** All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring **************************** To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it. |
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#1429 | |||
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
City & State: sasd
My Country: asasf
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 52
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Thanks , so is this "Z" variant a decent design ? fully safe for other pc components ? and worth getting it fixed and a recap with all Japanese caps ? for a 120-130 watt system ? Last edited by jarvis7; 01-24-2018 at 03:26 AM.. |
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#1430 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
City & State: Harrisburg, PA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
Posts: 1,597
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![]() It is a decent design, though an older one that won't be the most efficient, but should be fine for a low wattage system like you mention.
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#1431 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
City & State: sasd
My Country: asasf
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 52
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#1432 | ||
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,687
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![]() Quote:
In fact, with good caps and most of the conductive glue removed (at least on critical parts), these PSUs become pretty reliable. The 12V rail has a rating of 14 Amps, so technically, you could probably power up to a 150-160W system (i.e. a 60-80W TDP CPU with a 30-45W video card and a single HDD). Quote:
Yes, please do! It's so much better than the PSU you posted here: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...postcount=2840 That PSU is what needs to go in this thread. It's not the worst I've seen, but I don't recommend you use it for powering a computer. It's probably okay at best for powering fans, LED strips, and some other small electronics projects. |
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#1433 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
City & State: sasd
My Country: asasf
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 52
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![]() wouldn't bad Crossload performance and out of spec voltages be an issue with this PSU if used with a modern 12v heavy system ? something that 12E had like in this review ? http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory2&reid=154 although i plan on using it with Core 2 duo E8400/5700 , G41 type basic system , no GPU and likely no hard drive ( live Linux from pen drive ) .. i hope it is alright Also this PSU uses jamicon TK general purpose caps , i'd like to use old motherboard japanese caps if it is safe and alright as too low ESR, it will be a lott cheaper , this PSU has been sitting in storage for past 8 years I did turn on the PSU a few times to test and the LED light on PSU glows and stays on.. That other PSU is just a spare testing sort of PSU , used for 20-30 mins max once every 5-6 months or so in an already semi-failing P4 system.. and will replace it with this bestec Thanks a lotttt Last edited by jarvis7; 01-30-2018 at 11:13 AM.. |
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#1434 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
City & State: Harrisburg, PA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
Posts: 1,597
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![]() Here's a real turd, VIO "450W" (yah right) model KY-550ATX.
Here's what the manufacture claims (total BS): Here's the box (this is an NOS display unit that sat on a shelf at a local PC shop for years): Lets take a look in side... oh boy (note the bulged caps on the secondary): Primary, 4 diodes for a bridge rectifier, missing filter components (has 2 y caps and 1 coil), a pair of 330uf 200V caps, and 13007 switching transistors: Secondary has a F12c20c 12A 200V fast-recovery, SBL2045CT 20A 45V Schottky and CEP51A3 30V 48A MOSFET. Super-Group and JEE caps (2 of which are visibly bulged): Soldering is pretty bad: Lets see how it does with some load (this is an old load tester with a 3.3V/5V heavy loads as follows 12V 4A, 5V 10A, 3.3V 12A... 12V rail at 12.767V: 5V rail at 4.8636V: 3.3V rail at 3.3554V: So the 12V rail is outside ATX spec (12.6V is max), 5V just barely meats spec (4.75V is min), and only the 3.3V rail is solidly within spec. Got this as part of a lot of mostly older HiPros, those are useful for low-power systems, this thing is only good for parts. Last edited by dmill89; 01-30-2018 at 10:49 PM.. |
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#1435 |
SNES-powered
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 814
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![]() I have one PSU built around the same platform.
It's a Leadman LP-7700. Also: "BTX Ready" my ass.
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Main rig: DFI Lanparty DK P45-T2RS, Intel Xeon X5450 3.00GHz, Sapphire Radeon R7 240 2GB DDR3, 8GB DDR2-800, LiteOn DVD-RW drive, RPC 500LBL 500W (rebuilt), AVerMedia Super 009 TV tuner, Samsung HD103SI 1TB, noname black case |
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#1436 | |||||
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,687
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![]() The moment I saw that model number, I knew it had to be a crappy Sun Pro / Leadman. Dan81 nailed it - it's an LP-7700 platform. Run away
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The only good thing about that platform is that it uses a KA7500 PWM chip, so you could easily mod it into an adjustable PSU and probably get anywhere between 1/2 to 2x the output on every rail (except for 3.3V). I'll probably test that on mine some day, but that would be whenever I don't have anything better to do (and I usually do). Right now, mine (KY-450ATX, posted in this thread many pages ago) is sitting in the closet, case-less, and recapped with crappy (but non-bulging) Stone caps that I got out of a Philips/Magnavox 17" LCD TV that I recapped many years ago. Half of the stone caps in that thing were failed, but the other half appeared good, so they got put back "in service" in this PSU. I figured a crappy PSU deserves a crappy cap job ![]() ![]() Quote:
![]() Even certain produce can last longer than that! ![]() Quote:
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![]() Mine squealed like a madman due to bad caps on the 5VSB. After the Stone recap, the output voltages were in spec, but... the whole thing just ran so hot. Efficiency must have been barely at 65%, if even that. Quote:
Also, 13A of load on the 12V rail in that review corresponds to 156 Watts - that's more than enough for a Core 2 Quad with onboard graphics and a single HDD. Scale down to a Core 2 Duo, and you can add a 20-40W dedicated video card easily. Quote:
I did a Bestec ATX-300-12Z and ATX-300-12E with mostly Nichicon HN and HZ caps, and they both worked okay (no oscillations under load). On my ATX-250-12Z, I have a 16V/1500 uF Panasonic FL for one of the caps on the 12V rail, and it hasn't complained. On that note, the 5VSB and 3.3V rails in most PSUs are pretty much guaranteed to accept motherboard caps (the 5VSB is flyback-type, so ultra low ESR and high ripple current caps are okay with it by default, and the 3.3V in most PSUs is mag-amp regulated, so it's not going to care too much). The 5V rail is probably the only one where you should try to use more conservatively-rated low ESR caps (if possible), like Chemicon KY/KZE, Rubycon ZL/YXG, or Nichicon HE at most. But all in all, the Bestec PSUs from that era are not too picky about what caps you use. Given that they work with Jamicon caps that are close to general-purpose, you could probably even use general purpose 105C caps. The duration of the use doesn't matter too much. That PSU is just not safe and could blow up when you least expect it and take all your hardware with it. I just don't gamble with units like that. Loosing even a keyboard or mouse is worth more to me than saving money on using a cheapo PSU. Last edited by momaka; 01-31-2018 at 10:59 AM.. |
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#1437 | |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
City & State: Harrisburg, PA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
Posts: 1,597
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![]() Quote:
The 12V improved slightly to 12.759V, but still out of spec: 5V and 3.3V about the same at 4.8383V and 3.3366V respectively: as for efficiency (or lack there of), this unit pulled 210W in order to produce 138W of power so 65.7%: Just for fun here is a side by side comparison with a (legitimate) 250W HiPro HP-D2537F3R that was in the same lot: |
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#1438 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
City & State: sasd
My Country: asasf
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 52
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![]() Awesome , thanks Momaka sir , won't use that now.. will get bestec fixed
Thanks a ton |
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#1439 | |
SNES-powered
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 814
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![]() Quote:
I did replace the caps, the fan and the switching transistors on mine though. Fan was a Globe Fan that was failing, replaced with Xinruilian LP, caps replaced with AsiaX and YangChun. Not the best but miles better than the JEE caps, that's for sure. If memory serves me right though, the 5vSB are 2006 Nichicon HMs and the main JEE were replaced with some beefier HEC caps of the same height (I couldn't go higher due to the heatsink being in the way of the caps) What I do like on this platform is that the heatsinks are fairly thick and they're much easier to remove since they're held with screws attached on ground planes on the underside of the PCB rather than soldered on. Most of the PSUs I've worked on and gave away to friends in need of them still work to this day and not a complaint yet. One was a iMicro - based Delux I sneaked into a Spire 500W casing and the other was a Premier LC-C400ATX from 2007 that I had replaced the heatsinks on, replaced the 12v Diodes-on-Bracket and new caps of course. The former powered a Core 2 Quad Q8300 w/ a Radeon HD7750 and the latter powered (and is still in use to this day) a Pentium E5300 w/ a Radeon HD3450. |
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#1440 | ||||
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 8,687
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![]() Quote:
Most likely Sun Pro / Leadman put a higher number of turns on the 12V rail, so that the 12V rail wouldn't dip so much with a heavier 12V load to make the PSU "compatible" with a more "modern" 12V-heavy PC. Quote:
![]() ![]() I guess my guess of "65%" wasn't that far off. That's truly terrible, though. A big part of that comes from the fact that this PSU uses a linear 3.3V rail that is derived from the 5V rail. So with your 12 Amp load on the 3.3V rail, the loses are (4.8383V - 3.3366V) * 12 Amps = 1.5V * 12 Amps = 18.02 Watts of loss just from the 5V-->3.3V rail linear regulator circuit. So I guess we can give this PSU the benefit of the doubt that with a more realistic PC load (either 5V or 12V heavy instead of 3.3V-heavy), the efficiency should be somewhat better - probably in the low 70% range. That's still laughable, of course. ![]() Quote:
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Last edited by momaka; 02-03-2018 at 01:56 PM.. |
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